Why is nobody talking about the AIG bonuses?!?!

darien87

darien87

Audioholic Spartan
I can't believe actually believe that they are entitled to get millions in bonuses when they had to get bailed out by the government!!!

All right all you guys that hate government involvement in business, justify this to me. I realize that it was in their contract, and getting the government involved in business contracts is dicey business, but this sure seems like AIG knew they were going under and wrote these contracts so that their big-wigs could still get rich while their company was collapsing.

Screw 'em. They should be happy they still have a job.
 
krzywica

krzywica

Audioholic Samurai
Yeah nobody is talking about it because we are already at the maximum point of outrage...:)

My mouth will not drop to the ground any lower than it already is with all these bail outs....maddness!!

BTW ever get that HTPC built?
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
I agree that I don't like it. But contracts should be honored. That's not to say that the contracts shouldn't be renegotiated or terminated for the next year. Of course that's all depends on whether or not they still have a job next year.

I'm quite sure you'd find the severence packages in these contracts to be much higher than the bonus just paid if they get laid off.
 
sawzalot

sawzalot

Audioholic Samurai
I have been in so many debates ,heated conversations ,and so on that I'm just at a loss for words and plain out of gas nothing will change it they will get it and thats it, hold on a minute they are knocking on my door for more money right now:eek:
 
Matt34

Matt34

Moderator
I agree that I don't like it. But contracts should be honored. That's not to say that the contracts shouldn't be renegotiated or terminated for the next year. Of course that's all depends on whether or not they still have a job next year.

I'm quite sure you'd find the severence packages in these contracts to be much higher than the bonus just paid if they get laid off.

According to this article, one out of seven that received the bonuses took the money and left the company anyway.


http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/17/aig.bonuses/index.html
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
I can't believe actually believe that they are entitled to get millions in bonuses when they had to get bailed out by the government!!!

All right all you guys that hate government involvement in business, justify this to me. I realize that it was in their contract, and getting the government involved in business contracts is dicey business, but this sure seems like AIG knew they were going under and wrote these contracts so that their big-wigs could still get rich while their company was collapsing.

Screw 'em. They should be happy they still have a job.
I say let em have the millions. Just as long as they buy audio equipment.:D I have a few things worth that I could part with.:D
 
darien87

darien87

Audioholic Spartan
Yeah nobody is talking about it because we are already at the maximum point of outrage...:)

My mouth will not drop to the ground any lower than it already is with all these bail outs....maddness!!

BTW ever get that HTPC built?
Whoops, just noticed that the title says, "bunuses". I meant "bonuses" of course. :D Mods feel free to fix my typo.

No I never did. I kept getting differing opinions on whether what I wanted to do was even possible. Plus, I've read that you can use the PS 3 as a HTPC by installing Linux. I've never gotten around to giving this a try though.
 
darien87

darien87

Audioholic Spartan
According to this article, one out of seven that received the bonuses took the money and left the company anyway.


http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/17/aig.bonuses/index.html
Thanks for the link Matt.

One thing I read was that, one of the things that made the current financial crisis we're in possible, was the de-regulation of Wall Street. Can someone please tell me why the hell we de-regulated Wall Street when it allowed businessmen to do previously illegal things?!?!

Of course a mortgage lender is going to lend money to people who can't afford to pay it back if they can make money either way! This just seems so ridiculous that I MUST be missing something!!

What the hell happened?!?!?! :mad:
 
krzywica

krzywica

Audioholic Samurai
Yeah you can do that.....if you are still looking into it I would check out Popcorn Hour. I have one for the bedroom and it streams all my Audio and Video from my server via ethernet.
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
Thanks for the link Matt.

One thing I read was that, one of the things that made the current financial crisis we're in possible, was the de-regulation of Wall Street. Can someone please tell me why the hell we de-regulated Wall Street when it allowed businessmen to do previously illegal things?!?!
You're going to have to be more clear by how you define "de-regulation of Wall Street". Wall Street was never truly regulated. The deregulation that's probably being reference (I'm guessing here) is the repeal of Glass-Steagal, which allowed Investment Banks and Commercial Banks to be part of the same structure and allowed for the creation of conglomerates like JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup, & CSFB... for example.

But it's not like true investment banks and trading houses were ever under very heavy regulation. Most of the regulation that exists today is the same regulation that was created out of the 1933 & 1934 securities acts that were created out of the New Deal. Of course, a lot of that regulation is out of date- not because it's too lax per se, but because it was created for a different time less complex (compared to today anyway) financial instruments.
 
darien87

darien87

Audioholic Spartan
You're going to have to be more clear by how you define "de-regulation of Wall Street". Wall Street was never truly regulated. The deregulation that's probably being reference (I'm guessing here) is the repeal of Glass-Steagal, which allowed Investment Banks and Commercial Banks to be part of the same structure and allowed for the creation of conglomerates like JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup, & CSFB... for example.

But it's not like true investment banks and trading houses were ever under very heavy regulation. Most of the regulation that exists today is the same regulation that was created out of the 1933 & 1934 securities acts that were created out of the New Deal. Of course, a lot of that regulation is out of date- not because it's too lax per se, but because it was created for a different time less complex (compared to today anyway) financial instruments.
In the specific reference I was talking about, the person was talking about how mortgage companies were able to give out loans to people who couldn't pay them because they knew they could just sell them to someone else. I don't know if this was illegal in the past, but that was the example they gave after saying, "de-regulation of Wall Street."
 
mperfct

mperfct

Audioholic Samurai
I'm not talking about it because I'll have an aneurysm.

p.s. I can't believe I spelled that right, the first time.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
But contracts should be honored.
Not if some wrong doing was involved.

Any time people make the decisions that cause this kind of economic collapse, it's purely based on greed and corporate waste. That kind of performance can't possibly be what is required, expected or tolerated of any employee or executive. I have read that AIG insures Congress' pension, but I don't have a way to prove it and I'm not sure Snopes is reliable enough.

Now, I see that Freddie Mac may be the next black hole. If Congress allows this to happen, I think it will be time for Congress to be gutted and new members elected. Words can't come close to letting me express how effin' pissed off I am.
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
In the specific reference I was talking about, the person was talking about how mortgage companies were able to give out loans to people who couldn't pay them because they knew they could just sell them to someone else. I don't know if this was illegal in the past, but that was the example they gave after saying, "de-regulation of Wall Street."
Hi Darien, this may help a bit.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/02052008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/the_real_scandal_243911.htm?page=0
I know there is another thread on this subject, I'll look for it.
 
Joeteck

Joeteck

Audioholic
It is total BS. I glad that the government is asking for it back, and if they dont get it, then they will take it. AIG should be ashamed of themselves. Giving bonuses during these tough times is just wrong. AIG should get their funding removed!
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
In the specific reference I was talking about, the person was talking about how mortgage companies were able to give out loans to people who couldn't pay them because they knew they could just sell them to someone else. I don't know if this was illegal in the past, but that was the example they gave after saying, "de-regulation of Wall Street."
There are two separate but related sides to the mortgage issue. The first was what you're referring to- the loosening of standards around lending to increase home ownership. Since the 1980s there has been a huge push in the US to make sure everybody could buy a home, even if they couldn't necessarily afford one. On this issue everybody involved is at fault- Congress, regulators, banks, mortgage brokers, real estate agents (who were in bed with the mortgage companies), and of course the good old people of this country.

The other side, which is more Wall Street related, was the whole practice of the collateralization of these mortgages into mortgage backed securities so that investors could bet on the housing market. The crux of the problem here is not that mortgages were stripped apart, combined together into products and sold around, but that the ratings on these securities did not truly reflect the risk that was being taken. Investors should be allowed to take whatever risks they want to take, but the security needs to be appropriately priced for the risk that you're taking. The way pricing occurs in this market is through the rating agencies. During the period of 2005-2007 the influx of AAA rated (that's the top rating for the uninitiated) MBS was phenomenal. Some of this was the eagerness of the rating agencies to continue to bring in revenue, and some of this was the creativeness of the banks to structure the deals so that even a basket of mortgages with a lot of underlying risk (e.g. subprime) could be structured in a way so that it had a large portion that was AAA. So we've ended up in a situation where the owners of these securities are sitting on paper that should have been rated much lower than it originally was- and so you have a mismatch between price and risk.

Most of the general public understands the first part and has a lot of visibility to it, but it is the second piece of the puzzle which is wreaking havoc through corporate America. MBS are reliant on homeowners to pay down their mortgages on a timely basis- as economy-wide defaults go up the value of these securities goes down, even if the mortgages that make up any one particular security are all still timely. As the value of these securities goes down, the holders of these securities have to write down the carrying value of their holdings, essentially taking a loss even if they are still getting paid timely. Since banks and brokerage firms own such large quantities of these securities, their balance sheets are being severely stretched because these assets are essentially illiquid (even if they are still timely and have large value) because nobody wants to buy them.

For a really good idea of how all of this started, I highly recommend reading "Liars Poker" by Michael Lewis (same guy who wrote Moneyball). He wrote about this exact issue in the 1980s, and it's amazing how relevant the book still is today.
 
darien87

darien87

Audioholic Spartan
There are two separate but related sides to the mortgage issue. The first was what you're referring to- the loosening of standards around lending to increase home ownership. Since the 1980s there has been a huge push in the US to make sure everybody could buy a home, even if they couldn't necessarily afford one. On this issue everybody involved is at fault- Congress, regulators, banks, mortgage brokers, real estate agents (who were in bed with the mortgage companies), and of course the good old people of this country.

The other side, which is more Wall Street related, was the whole practice of the collateralization of these mortgages into mortgage backed securities so that investors could bet on the housing market. The crux of the problem here is not that mortgages were stripped apart, combined together into products and sold around, but that the ratings on these securities did not truly reflect the risk that was being taken. Investors should be allowed to take whatever risks they want to take, but the security needs to be appropriately priced for the risk that you're taking. The way pricing occurs in this market is through the rating agencies. During the period of 2005-2007 the influx of AAA rated (that's the top rating for the uninitiated) MBS was phenomenal. Some of this was the eagerness of the rating agencies to continue to bring in revenue, and some of this was the creativeness of the banks to structure the deals so that even a basket of mortgages with a lot of underlying risk (e.g. subprime) could be structured in a way so that it had a large portion that was AAA. So we've ended up in a situation where the owners of these securities are sitting on paper that should have been rated much lower than it originally was- and so you have a mismatch between price and risk.

Most of the general public understands the first part and has a lot of visibility to it, but it is the second piece of the puzzle which is wreaking havoc through corporate America. MBS are reliant on homeowners to pay down their mortgages on a timely basis- as economy-wide defaults go up the value of these securities goes down, even if the mortgages that make up any one particular security are all still timely. As the value of these securities goes down, the holders of these securities have to write down the carrying value of their holdings, essentially taking a loss even if they are still getting paid timely. Since banks and brokerage firms own such large quantities of these securities, their balance sheets are being severely stretched because these assets are essentially illiquid (even if they are still timely and have large value) because nobody wants to buy them.

For a really good idea of how all of this started, I highly recommend reading "Liars Poker" by Michael Lewis (same guy who wrote Moneyball). He wrote about this exact issue in the 1980s, and it's amazing how relevant the book still is today.
Thanks for the info. Nicely put,............... for a Giants fan. :p
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
You're going to have to be more clear by how you define "de-regulation of Wall Street". Wall Street was never truly regulated. The deregulation that's probably being reference (I'm guessing here) is the repeal of Glass-Steagal, which allowed Investment Banks and Commercial Banks to be part of the same structure and allowed for the creation of conglomerates like JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup, & CSFB... for example.

But it's not like true investment banks and trading houses were ever under very heavy regulation. Most of the regulation that exists today is the same regulation that was created out of the 1933 & 1934 securities acts that were created out of the New Deal. Of course, a lot of that regulation is out of date- not because it's too lax per se, but because it was created for a different time less complex (compared to today anyway) financial instruments.
Wall Street is over regulated. I can't even make a website for my brother's financial company because only 5 companies are approved to make them.

The regulations are overkill and unreasonable like most government regulation.
 
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