Why HDMI?

[CharlyD]

I posted a question a few days ago asking whether a receiver with HDMI inputs could extract the audio portion of the program and forward the video in digital format to the display. I got no reponses. I suspect an HDMI input on a receiver is just another video input.

So what's the point of HDMI at all? That protocol can carry uncompressed video, hi-def audio and control (optional) over a single cable. But, if HDCP will only allow connection between source and display devices, the signal cannot be split at a receiver. Also, I have seen no evidence that the control capabilities are being implemented. As far as video signals, HDMI does not add capabilities over DVI.

The only advantage (over DVI) I can see is an easier to use connector.

 

[Mr.T]

www.hdmi.org
www.pacificcable.com/HDMI_Tutorial.htm

No body knows what the future will bring, now they're using HDMI interfaces, tomorrow it could be something else. Who knows! Nothing is settled yet with digital interfaces, one think I know for sure though is, that the 16:9 aspect ratio for HDTV programming will be with us for a while in the future.

Mr.T

 

[BMXTRIX]

one think I know for sure though is, that the 16:9 aspect ratio for HDTV programming will be with us for a while in the future.

Except that the computer industry absolutely refuses to make PC's using the 16:9 standard and now a whole crop of 1920x1200 monitors are coming to the market. Why do the refuse to make them 1920x1080 so that perhaps there is a chance of them matching up with TV's? Why does my brand new PC output 1920x1200 but NOT 1920x1080?

The one thing you can count on is the computer industry completely ignoring the A/V industry and everyone developing different things.

 

[djoxygen]

The only advantage (over DVI) I can see is an easier to use connector.

Easier-to-use connector, single connector for all media, enough bandwidth to carry digital HD video and multi-channel audio, longer cable runs than DVI.

HDCP isn't to keep you from relaying signals through receivers or to multiple destinations, it's to prevent copying. Probably what will happen is that your DVR won't let you record an HDMI stream from your Blu-Ray player.

As far as "splitting" audio and video, most receivers switch A and V together now, I'm not sure how HDMI would be any different, unless I'm reading the question wrong.

 

[CharlyD]

HDCP does not allow the decrypted digital signal of protected content to be accessible anywhere; only displayed as video or played as audio. If content protected by HDCP comes into a receiver/processor, it can be decrypted and the audio extracted. The video, however, must be re-encrypted to be sent over a digital channel to the display. The decrypted signal must be well-proctected somehow within the receiver on buried traces or in silicon. The receiver must then have its own set of encryption keys.

All this is possible, of course, but I haven't seen any documentation from the few vendors making HDMI-enabled receivers that single HDMI connections between your sources, receiver/processor and display are all that is required.

 

[Mr.T]

The one thing you can count on is the computer industry completely ignoring the A/V industry and everyone developing different things.

Except Sony.
Sony was the first company to start interacting A/V into their Vaio laptops and desktops, with large capacity Hard drives and even capture cards with a non linear editing software, to capture video and edit it. Also an 80Gb hard drive on a laptop was unheard of. Even a DVD-RW/CD-RW combo was a big deal. Obviously now everybody is doing it.

I guess with the advent of HDTV and 16:9 aspect ratio DVD movies, computer company are incorporating that ratio screen on a lot of their laptops.

Mr.T

 

[djoxygen]

Except Sony.
Sony was the first company to start interacting A/V into their Vaio laptops and desktops, with large capacity Hard drives and even capture cards with a non linear editing software, to capture video and edit it. Also an 80Gb hard drive on a laptop was unheard of. Even a DVD-RW/CD-RW combo was a big deal. Obviously now everybody is doing it.

Dude?

Apple had A/V in and out before they were even using PowerPC chips. Early '90s - well before Sony was even making computers. Avid non-linear hardware and software for video editing has been industry standard for a decade, and Digidesign's HW/SW for audio has been the benchmark since the late 80s.

FireWire, which isn't exactly standard in consumer A/V but is getting more common, has been available on Macs pretty much since Apple invented the technology (and again, well before Sony incorporated it under the i.Link name).

DVD-R/RW? Again Apple put the Pioneer SuperDrive out in the PC market almost 5 years ago - before anyone else could burn DVDs on their PC. Before that, your only solution was high-end (read: expensive) pro mastering hardware and software.

Enough of that.

I agree with you that there should be a lot more cooperation between the computer, professional A/V, and consumer A/V industries, but it isn't the computer industry ignoring the consumer gear manufacturers. More often it is the software companies (Warner, BMG, etc...) that are afraid of the power of the computer to pirate their content, so they won't play nice if the consumer A/V market wants to use technology that allows copying. This is why digital video interconnects are only just recently being found on consumer gear when the computer and pro A/V companies have had the technology for many years. As a pro, consumer, and computer manufacturer *and* content owner, Sony is the perfect example - they won't even play nice among the different divisions of the *same* *company*.

HDMI is actually a huge step backwards from the standard pro A/V digital interconnect. SDI pumps 8 channels of uncompressed audio along with uncompressed HD video over a single 2-conductor cable (coax with BNC connectors). Obviously this would be a fantastic solution for the rest of us, except there is no provision for DRM and we have proven that we can't be trusted to keep our private-use content to ourselves.

Please point fingers, just point them in the right directions.

 

[Mr.T]

Djoxy, you have to learn to calm down, it's only a conversation forum, not a gladiator's arena.

We're talking about PC Laptops and desktops here, not Apple computers.
Of course we all know that Apple is a pioneer in computer technology and multimedia interaction in their apple computers and Laptops.

AVID is a company that makes professional non linear editing software for professional video editors (not computers) and so is Pinnacle, Canopus, Incite and so On.

Mr.T

 

[BMXTRIX]

Where is my PC with 720P output on component that I can hook directly to my A/V receiver? (or does Apple have that already?)

Where is my 19 inch PC monitor with 1280x720 or 1920x1080 resolution that accepts component inputs from my TV and my video card will output in A/V industry standard 720p and 1080i (or p) standards?

It's not that the two industries don't feed each other on some level. But, there is no question that A/V seems way behind the PC industry and 'widescreen' PC's aren't using 16:9 ratio monitors! So, I can't mirror my PC on my TV and vice-versa at this time. I imagine we may see a good 16:9 LCD eventually... and there may be a couple out there right now. But, thank you Apple for putting out your 1920x1200 Cinema display... wait, that's not 16:9.

It would just be nice to see a little more Windows Media Center edition stuff be more of a standard on PCs. So many PC's have Tivo functionality - but don't have remotes or easy ways to interface with my theater. Meh, I'm used to it, but I would have paid more for a little more integratabilty between my PC and my plasma.

 

[djoxygen]

If I seemed un-calm it was not the case. I happen to be a Mac user/admin who works in a media production company, so I know some things about the available HW/SW, and history of such. I was only pointing out some history that seemed to be forgotten.

Mr. T, you first said "computer industry" so I took that to mean the entire spectrum of HW/SW/peripherals/etc... but then you scaled that back in your later post to be apparently only off-the-shelf laptops and desktops running some version of Windows. Obviously you are correct that there's not much A/V connectivity in the run-of-the-mill systems.

BMX, getting 720p out of a computer is trivial, we have 21" CRTs running at 1200p - normally it's not on a component cable, but that can be solved by a hardware adapter (we have a couple VGA -> component adapter cables down in our basement somewhere). The problem isn't the computer, it's the display. The consumer A/V world has such limited options of resolution and scanning rate (and at such *lower* resolutions and rates) that using a TV as a computer monitor pales in comparison to even an average-quality computer display.

The laptop I'm typing this on has a screen res of 1280x854, plus it has DVI out which *can* drive a projector or HDTV at one of *its* limited native resolutions. Again, DVI - available in computer world for many years, but only in consumer A/V within about the last 24 months.

There are computer monitors *and* consumer a/v sets that will accept both computer and HT gear inputs. Auto-switching, auto-sensing, auto-syncing. One of my best friends has a 42" LCD RP that will take DVI (computer or DVD player), component, S-, composite. There are relatively cheap converters that will let you use an Apple HD Cinema Display as an non-computer-driven HD display. BMX, why would you care that it's 16:10 instead of 16:9? Do the black bars on the top and bottom of your Star Wars DVDs TV bother you, too? If you look at the specs of your sources, there aren't many that are actually 16:9 (1.777:1), it's 1.85:1, 2.35:1, and so on.

But Mr. T, your original claim was that the computer industry is the one lagging, and it's quite the other way 'round. While all the tech's not necessarily available on the low-end PCs, even SVGA is far superior to most component signals.

 

[Mr.T]

Djoxy, what you have said it's true and it makes a lot of sense.
Although I never mentioned "Computer Industry" I always ment consumer products for the general public. Those 2 lines statement about computer industry was actually made by "BMXTRIX before my thread.

It's evidente that your knowledge about computers is extensive and it's commendable.

I have acquired some computer knowledge since I bought a Dell PC Tower with 512Mb of RAM and 2 Hard drives, 160GB and an 80GB for capturing and editing video thru a canopus capture card and a not linear editing software. The compressed and encoded video clips are usually inserted to PowerPoint presentations slides and websites.

Mr.T

 

[RaT]

DJOxygen, I did not read your opinion thinking you needed to calm down. Other then the word "dude" it all made a lot of sense.

 

[Mr.T]

RaT, obviously you're correct in your statement in praising his knoldge, but after you see my face you'll change your mind.

Mr.T