why build?

[ratso]

if you're a gamer, then fine - build away. but between the mac mini on the apple side and the new intel nuc on the pc side (and the i7 build is coming soon) i can't see any way at all to match the small form, silent operation, power consumption and processing speed for anywhere close to the money.

 

[All-Or-Nothing]

Building is part of the fun. I am building my first HTPC right now and I am learning so much more than I had ever known. Plus it's fun.

 

[Grador]

It's easier to get exactly the componentry you want when you build.

 

[ratso]

Building is part of the fun. I am building my first HTPC right now and I am learning so much more than I had ever known. Plus it's fun.

yes, this i can easily understand. i don't think i have the skills or patience to do it, but i'm sure it is a lot of fun. as for getting the componentry, i can also see some sense in this, but i'm not sure you could get the level of componentry for the money as in the above. but alternately i can see that you maybe don't need the above but would like to upgrade in other areas like GPU so i can see that too. good points.

 

[Grador]

yes, this i can easily understand. i don't think i have the skills or patience to do it, but i'm sure it is a lot of fun. as for getting the componentry, i can also see some sense in this, but i'm not sure you could get the level of componentry for the money as in the above. but alternately i can see that you maybe don't need the above but would like to upgrade in other areas like GPU so i can see that too. good points.

You are quite correct, you will end up paying more if you build. This is why I have a acer revo and not a system I've build myself. If you go back ~12 years or so you could save quite a bit of money building a system for yourself buying the components at computer shows etc, but those days are over and buying a prebuilt computer today is FAR cheaper than building was back then.

 

[Trev]

As a gamer and entertainment junkie, as well... an IT Technician... who builds people budget systems and fights the good fight of getting his parents into the times...

The number 1 cause of PC failure is that people don't understand how to use them well. They can't understand what they're throwing at it, and how to balance their workload.
Common solution - throw more hardware at the problem. So personally, I find that these ultra fast gaming machines, are great not only for gamers, but people who do not know how to properly use and maintain a machine. Built tougher, harder to fail kind of thing. Is it a completely dysfunctional way of going about it? You betcha.

The second reason for a well built machine is that it will last longer without needing a replacement. It won't stop that software applications and operating systems chew up more and more resources. It's just where things are going. A well built machine will typically do you for a few more years than a regular system... that is comparing a consumer grade dell to an enthusiast machine.

There is a happy medium though, which I strongly recommend. Buy a Dell desktop, full size tower like the Inspiron 600 for $450? $350 of mods, you got a machine that can beat the pants off of my $2000 5 year old system (which, regardless of the time, isn't easy.) What you need when you buy a pre-built system to upgrade it, is typically just three components... a new power supply, with good amperage not just watts, to drive better components, and a great video card & Soundcard. If gaming isn't your thing, move the budget more onto the sound card than the video card.

There's just no way that I can bring myself to buy a machine that can't be upgraded. Some people pay $200 for one of these atom processor closed thin clients, and then replace it, and replace it, and replace it, every few years...

Vs building one very great machine, and replacing individual components, only improving the performance greatly each time. My 5 year old system... i've bought a $100 solid state drive. Instant performance increase. I bought a new video card for $150, ... and that's it. The only two mods I've bought, and I'm up to date and can play the latest games. If that makes sense? Some folks use disposable razors. Some folks like sharpening an old straight razor. Some dudes like replacing cartridges. I'm a cartridge guy, and new technology comes in the form of these modular bits.

That said, if you are going to buy a closed system... I strongly recommend an Apple or Linux machine. Windows is not an OS in my opinion for low resource systems.

 

[slipperybidness]

You are quite correct, you will end up paying more if you build. This is why I have a acer revo and not a system I've build myself. If you go back ~12 years or so you could save quite a bit of money building a system for yourself buying the components at computer shows etc, but those days are over and buying a prebuilt computer today is FAR cheaper than building was back then.

The problem with pre-built is that typically if there is a problem, then you have to replace the entire computer.

For example, I had a Dell that had an Asus motherboard as OEM. But the part number on the motherboard indicated that it was a Dell OEM. So, you couldn't just get a replacement motherboard, drivers, or any support at all from Asus because it is a "Dell" mobo.

 

[slipperybidness]

As a gamer and entertainment junkie, as well... an IT Technician... who builds people budget systems and fights the good fight of getting his parents into the times...

The number 1 cause of PC failure is that people don't understand how to use them well. They can't understand what they're throwing at it, and how to balance their workload.
Common solution - throw more hardware at the problem. So personally, I find that these ultra fast gaming machines, are great not only for gamers, but people who do not know how to properly use and maintain a machine. Built tougher, harder to fail kind of thing. Is it a completely dysfunctional way of going about it? You betcha.

The second reason for a well built machine is that it will last longer without needing a replacement. It won't stop that software applications and operating systems chew up more and more resources. It's just where things are going. A well built machine will typically do you for a few more years than a regular system... that is comparing a consumer grade dell to an enthusiast machine.

There is a happy medium though, which I strongly recommend. Buy a Dell desktop, full size tower like the Inspiron 600 for $450? $350 of mods, you got a machine that can beat the pants off of my $2000 5 year old system (which, regardless of the time, isn't easy.) What you need when you buy a pre-built system to upgrade it, is typically just three components... a new power supply, with good amperage not just watts, to drive better components, and a great video card & Soundcard. If gaming isn't your thing, move the budget more onto the sound card than the video card.

There's just no way that I can bring myself to buy a machine that can't be upgraded. Some people pay $200 for one of these atom processor closed thin clients, and then replace it, and replace it, and replace it, every few years...

Vs building one very great machine, and replacing individual components, only improving the performance greatly each time. My 5 year old system... i've bought a $100 solid state drive. Instant performance increase. I bought a new video card for $150, ... and that's it. The only two mods I've bought, and I'm up to date and can play the latest games. If that makes sense? Some folks use disposable razors. Some folks like sharpening an old straight razor. Some dudes like replacing cartridges. I'm a cartridge guy, and new technology comes in the form of these modular bits.

That said, if you are going to buy a closed system... I strongly recommend an Apple or Linux machine. Windows is not an OS in my opinion for low resource systems.

Yup, you nailed it. Kind of what I was getting at when I posted at the same time as you, but much better explanation and details than I had

 

[lsiberian]

I don't see the need anymore there really isn't a big margin on computers. They use financing, accessories and extended warranties to get their money instead.

 

[Grador]

The problem with pre-built is that typically if there is a problem, then you have to replace the entire computer.

For example, I had a Dell that had an Asus motherboard as OEM. But the part number on the motherboard indicated that it was a Dell OEM. So, you couldn't just get a replacement motherboard, drivers, or any support at all from Asus because it is a "Dell" mobo.

I'm on the fence with this being an issue. Some prebuilts do use non-standard components which leave you high and dry, but I always recommend trying to avoid these. If you buy a dell etc with more standard size components, you'll just have to replace the mobo like you would on a system you built. Overall support from component manufacturers isn't that great anyway...

Also on failures, at the time I bought my revo I could purchase two of them for the price of building my own equivalent SFF system, so I can withstand a hardware failure and still be financially ahead of the 8ball. Edit:I was thinking about if this statement was true, because the components aren't really that expensive and then I remembered why: Windows is expensive. If you wanted to go with linux this statement would not be true.

 

[jinjuku]

I put together my first PC, whew have to be 23-24 years ago. Socket RAM chips (DIP packages and ZIP packages), math co-processor, RLL drive (when names like Mini-Scribe and Conor were big names). I've done countless builds since. Now I just buy.

Since I don't game I have no need for custom water cooled, over voltaged, over clocked, etc setup. I just want something SFF, quiet, cool with a good Radeon part in it. I can't put together a machine with Windows for less than I could buy. My current HTPC cost my $270 with a nice configuration and Windows 7 and I don't have to worry about no warranty.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

yes, this i can easily understand. i don't think i have the skills or patience to do it, but i'm sure it is a lot of fun. as for getting the componentry, i can also see some sense in this, but i'm not sure you could get the level of componentry for the money as in the above. but alternately i can see that you maybe don't need the above but would like to upgrade in other areas like GPU so i can see that too. good points.

It's a lot easier than you think. I'm one of the worst carpenters in the world. No kidding. Yet I've built 9 PCs already.

 

[monkish54]

It's a lot easier than you think. I'm one of the worst carpenters in the world. No kidding. Yet I've built 9 PCs already.

I'll build you a speaker, you build me a HTPC?

 

[avnetguy]

I don't build general use machines anymore, even moderate gaming machines as its soooo much cheaper to buy these especially if you can get them on sale.

Steve

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'll build you a speaker, you build me a HTPC?

Building PC is so simple. Basically putting screws into holes.

You get a case. Screw the Motherboard onto the case. Insert the CPU onto the Motherboard. Insert the CPU fan on top of the CPU. Insert the RAM onto the MB. Screw the HDD onto the PC case. Screw the DVD-ROM onto the case. Screw the Power Supply onto PC case. Plug the PSU cables to MB, HDD, DVD-ROM, etc. Plug in the USB, Audio, Power, Reset, HD LED, etc, onto MB. Install Operating System. Few other things.

Easy.

 

[Grador]

Building PC is so simple. Basically putting screws into holes.

You get a case. Screw the Motherboard onto the case. Insert the CPU onto the Motherboard. Insert the CPU fan on top of the CPU. Insert the RAM onto the MB. Screw the HDD onto the PC case. Screw the DVD-ROM onto the case. Screw the Power Supply onto PC case. Plug the PSU cables to MB, HDD, DVD-ROM, etc. Plug in the USB, Audio, Power, Reset, HD LED, etc, onto MB. Install Operating System. Few other things.

Easy.

And since everyone is putting heat spreaders on their CPUs these days you don't have to worry about chipping the processor putting on the CPU fan!

It really is that simple, there are only three parts I think that can be a little bit of a stumbling block: ordering all the components, mounting the MOBO, and putting on the CPU fan (which is a bit easier these days than it was before).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

And since everyone is putting heat spreaders on their CPUs these days you don't have to worry about chipping the processor putting on the CPU fan!

It really is that simple, there are only three parts I think that can be a little bit of a stumbling block: ordering all the components, mounting the MOBO, and putting on the CPU fan (which is a bit easier these days than it was before).

Yeah, forgot to mention the heat spreader gel thingy on the CPU metal plate cover.

I like ordering from Amazon. They pretty much tell you the compatible parts. And if something doesn't work out, you have their no-hassle return policy.

 

[Trev]

The problem with pre-built is that typically if there is a problem, then you have to replace the entire computer.

For example, I had a Dell that had an Asus motherboard as OEM. But the part number on the motherboard indicated that it was a Dell OEM. So, you couldn't just get a replacement motherboard, drivers, or any support at all from Asus because it is a "Dell" mobo.

If you were under warranty, you should've gotten the replacement mobo from Dell... and if not... any replacement mobo with the same processor socket would've done fine.

The whole way of going about dropping money on a custom built PC... is that typically... whatever money you drop as your base... THAT is like your bed frame. Now, you can change your mattress every year or two... and that's cool. That's the way it should be done. You get the nice leather-bound hardwood beauty put together, and you change out the mattresses when need be. That's the difference. Buying these micro machines is like buying an IKEA bed. Now you'll get the enthusiasts, ... with the water cooling, ... the overclocking... the built in S&M straps on the posts if you will... but really... that's tasteless crap. You don't need a waterbed. You don't need the straps, etc... etc... Keep it simple, classy, and balls-to-the-wall (pun intended) sturdy.

What I'm getting down to here, are the details of a good machine. A good machine, hands down, and I'm afraid I'm really stubborn on this... is: Silent, Powerful, monochromatic hardware, and no LEDs. You don't need bright, you don't need bells or whistles. You need quiet, badass, seamless BD playback with great audio... and for it to be capable of something monstrous - like the equivalent powering on your AVR when some ignoramus was using the TV speakers. This is how my machine operates, ... where I do what I do day to day with it... and then when the mood strikes... it's my recording studio. You know what I mean?

Now even if you don't have an alternate use for a PC like that (recording, gaming, graphic design, ripping), I'm sorry... I STILL can't feel an argument against owning a powerhouse that's capable of everything. To me it's the equivalent of carrying a great pocket knife - which every man should have on him - period.

That said, that's just if you're using a PC. I'm an all or nothing kind of guy - who's drinking scotch so please forgive my tone. If you're not a PC person, there's no shame to not go PC at all, and instead drop your money on a great OPPO or integrated amp you've been missing instead... There's no shame in Quality over Quantity. PC is a quest for both, being humble and buying all of your media, is great!

I guess just being an IT guy and someone who builds quality machines... when I see someone's playback or system hang, stutter, or give any kind of lip, instantly... it's infuriating - like why aren't we just watching or listening to this on a dedicated source if your shi*'s going to behave this way... kind of thing.

It's really rough. I wager we all have the trouble every day of looking at your budget, looking at gear, looking at your budget, looking at your wife, looking at gear...

God help us. All I can say is the one lump investment ... it tears the strip from your wallet like a bandaid, and I haven't had a regret since I did it.

 

[slipperybidness]

If you were under warranty, you should've gotten the replacement mobo from Dell... and if not... any replacement mobo with the same processor socket would've done fine.

The whole way of going about dropping money on a custom built PC... is that typically... whatever money you drop as your base... THAT is like your bed frame. Now, you can change your mattress every year or two... and that's cool. That's the way it should be done. You get the nice leather-bound hardwood beauty put together, and you change out the mattresses when need be. That's the difference. Buying these micro machines is like buying an IKEA bed. Now you'll get the enthusiasts, ... with the water cooling, ... the overclocking... the built in S&M straps on the posts if you will... but really... that's tasteless crap. You don't need a waterbed. You don't need the straps, etc... etc... Keep it simple, classy, and balls-to-the-wall (pun intended) sturdy.

What I'm getting down to here, are the details of a good machine. A good machine, hands down, and I'm afraid I'm really stubborn on this... is: Silent, Powerful, monochromatic hardware, and no LEDs. You don't need bright, you don't need bells or whistles. You need quiet, badass, seamless BD playback with great audio... and for it to be capable of something monstrous - like the equivalent powering on your AVR when some ignoramus was using the TV speakers. This is how my machine operates, ... where I do what I do day to day with it... and then when the mood strikes... it's my recording studio. You know what I mean?

Now even if you don't have an alternate use for a PC like that (recording, gaming, graphic design, ripping), I'm sorry... I STILL can't feel an argument against owning a powerhouse that's capable of everything. To me it's the equivalent of carrying a great pocket knife - which every man should have on him - period.

That said, that's just if you're using a PC. I'm an all or nothing kind of guy - who's drinking scotch so please forgive my tone. If you're not a PC person, there's no shame to not go PC at all, and instead drop your money on a great OPPO or integrated amp you've been missing instead... There's no shame in Quality over Quantity. PC is a quest for both, being humble and buying all of your media, is great!

I guess just being an IT guy and someone who builds quality machines... when I see someone's playback or system hang, stutter, or give any kind of lip, instantly... it's infuriating - like why aren't we just watching or listening to this on a dedicated source if your shi*'s going to behave this way... kind of thing.

It's really rough. I wager we all have the trouble every day of looking at your budget, looking at gear, looking at your budget, looking at your wife, looking at gear...

God help us. All I can say is the one lump investment ... it tears the strip from your wallet like a bandaid, and I haven't had a regret since I did it.

+1

My tower is beside my HT rack in the living room. Wireless KB and trackball. It is a plain-jane black tower with 120mm fans. Runs silent (unless doing heavy processing when the vid card fan kicks on) and it is much better than all but the top-dollar off the shelf computers.

And no, the Dell failure wasn't under warranty. In all honesty, it was time to upgrade. But, if I wanted to repair it, I was mostly SOL. Definitely more $ and time than it was worth.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

An extremely quiet, efficient, fast, cool, straightforward, quality, inexpensive PC is goal.