Why Acoustic Room Treatments? Video Shows It Better Than I Can Say It!

[lsiberian]

If you are too lazy to build yourself or it needs to look really nice then pick up a room kit from GIK. But the top end one i 964 and I'm sure if you ask Glen who deserves every penny he makes he will gladly tweak the price with some custom picture panels. I may actually order some poster panels at some point.

Obviously you can DIY for much cheaper than that.

 

[TLS Guy]

Those treatments are not practical for most rooms. None of that would be possible in this room.

I have watched that video and I have a number of observations.

The recording is mono which makes it an unfair test as direct and reflected sound cause much more confusion in mono. In fact for good stereo in the home reflected sound is absolutely required for a satisfying effect. Linkwitz has pointed this out on numerous occasions and presented papers showing that this is so.

I can hear enough on the video to know that those are lousy speakers especially in the bass. It was the bass that was tidied up the most. Even so the bass was still sloppy and over resonant.

The frequency response aberrations out of the bass range have very narrow bandwidth. These we are used and expect.

So as usual it does get back to having speakers that have an even frequency response on AND off axis. If the reflected sound mirrors the reflected sound the direct and delayed sound will be presented in a way the brain will comprehend without offense and in fact requires. Woe betide if they don't match!

As I have said so often sloppy speakers with high Q excite these room modes with a vengeance.

I will state once again, If speakers are low Q and have good polar response most of that treatment is not only not necessary, but undesirable.

The sound in this listening room sounds nothing like those examples.

In my lower level, that space has a definite echo and yet it sounds marvelous. I can listen by the fire a long way from the speakers and outside the left speaker and it still sounds marvelous, especially choral music. If I hung all that clap trap round the room, I can be certain I would ruin it.

 

[3db]

While I think treatments can be beneficial. I disagree that 50 percent of the budget should be in them. Excellent speakers are engineered to perform well in a standard living room. Also be careful what you treat. The best place to start is the wall behind your head then the wall behind the speakers. Side reflections aren't a huge deal because of the decay factor. Never treat first order reflections they actually enhance sound. And please don't put up so much treatment that your theater looks terrible.

Rockwool and cloth are cheap. If you get rigid rockwool you don't really need to frame it(though it can be helpful).

Budget is always a personal thing and people may tweek a room for a lot less. Excellent speakers are engineered to perform well with excellent frequency response, good dispersion, linearity etc. Most speaker companies testing is done in an anoechic chamber to achieve these parameters and not a standard living room. There is no such thing as standard living room as tastes will vary, especially with one's spouse.


Having read TLS's response, maybe mono would benefit a lot more with acoustic treatments than stereo. However, sound is sound and stereo in a live room or dead room will still suck eggs, no matter how you want to slice and dice this.


GONAD and I already have mentioned that many HT setups are done NOT in dedicated rooms but in dual purpose rooms like family rooms, living rooms and the like. It just won't go over well from an aesthetic point of view with the other half. I have a problem comprehending that aesthetics part personally .


I would also like to comment that room measurements aren't needed to fix a room's acoustics. It can be done as was mentioned by another poster. It just takes a lot more effort and patience to do this. Also, not every room needs fixing.

All of this boils down to this....if one is not happy with the sound of their system, try to fix the room first if possible. This could be as changing the room layout. Then look at the equipment. .....

Sorry I must have lost my marbles..... by cable elevators and expensive speaker cables to "tune" your system to the room.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Most speaker companies testing is done in an anoechic chamber to achieve these parameters and not a standard living room.

But after the anechoic chambers, they do listen to their speakers in rooms with 4 walls and a ceiling, etc, right?

Sure, no room is exactly the same. And adding acoustic panels still won't make the rooms the same.

I think the question is how important is using acoustic panels and bass traps vs traditional natural room furnishing with curtains, drapes, carpets, rugs, sofas & pillows, etc.

Why should people spend $3,000 on acoustic panels and bass traps if natural room furnishing is all that people need, as believed by well published experts like Siegfried Linkwitz and local experts like Dennis Murphy and TLS Guy?

Surely no YouTube videos or any videos (which can be edited) weigh more than these experts IMO. It's almost like DenPureSound (God bless his soul) saying that auditioning speakers on YouTube has some merits.

 

[3db]

But after the anechoic chambers, they do listen to their speakers in rooms with 4 walls and a ceiling, etc, right?
Sure, no room is exactly the same. And adding acoustic panels still won't make the rooms the same.

Doesn't have to be same as long as the rooms acoustics are improved.

I think the question is how important is using acoustic panels and bass traps vs traditional natural room furnishing with curtains, drapes, carpets, rugs, sofas & pillows, etc.

Why should we spend $3,000 on acoustic panels and bass traps if natural room furnishing is all that we need, as believed by well published experts like Siegfried Linkwitz and local experts like Dennis Murphy and TLS Guy?

Surely no YouTube videos or any videos (which can be edited) weigh more than these experts IMO. It's almost like DenPureSound (God bless his soul) saying that auditioning speakers on YouTube has some merits.

That depends on the room, budget, and what the person is willing to put up with. The benefits of room acoustics can't be dismissed outright like some here seem to be doing.

 

[Hocky]

I think the question is how important is using acoustic panels and bass traps vs traditional natural room furnishing with curtains, drapes, carpets, rugs, sofas & pillows, etc.

I don't think that you would ever get enough furniture into a dedicated 2ch room to make it anything other than an echoing mess. A multi purpose room is a bit different.

 

[Steve81]

One article that is related to an extent:

Advice From an Audio Insider | Home Theater

 

[3db]

One article that is related to an extent:

Advice From an Audio Insider | Home Theater

Looks like Floyd Toole understands to well acoustic treatments. He's just very creative in its application.


"Toole's own media room takes this practical approach to design. It is a friendly room without complicated acoustic treatment. On first glance, in fact, there is no obvious acoustical treatment at all. However, the carpet is dense clipped pile with a half-inch of felt below it, acting as an acoustic absorber. Toole believes that the wall immediately behind the listeners should be acoustically absorptive, so the drapery at the rear of the room is heavy velour. Above the velour drapes, Toole has completely disguised five inches of fiberglass, which acts as a broadband absorber, removing any opportunity for sound to bounce between the front and back of the room."

 

[Steve81]

One article that is related to an extent:

Advice From an Audio Insider | Home Theater

One more:

http://www.harmanaudio.com/all_about_audio/loudspeakers_rooms.pdf

 

[Darenwh]

Ok, question. If you are finishing a room that will be used as a home theater but that you would like to keep from looking too much like a home theater does it make sense to use Owens Corning 703 or 705 insulating panels in place of drywall for the walls as a start to controlling sound reflections in a room? I know further treatments will be needed for corners and other problem issues.
Thanks,
Daren (First Post here)

 

[bobnegi]

Attach the 703/705 directly to the walls studs and drywall over it? Is that what you mean? Most abosrbing panels need to be a min. thickness, usually around 3" or thicker

There is a drywall available through regular building stores called "Quiterock" or something like that. Designed as sound proofing drywall. That may work better for you

 

[Darenwh]

Actually, I was considering placing 1" or 2" thick directly to studs and attaching a facing of a very high quality wallpaper (such as is used in commercial buildings) to give a good finish. There would be no drywall over this as from what I understand this is a high strength foam that would likely work well in place of the drywall. As such the whole wall would become a sound pannel. As I have a split level house that the first floor is unfinished (In GA they call it a basement, it does not have even a single inch of it that is below ground level so to me it is a first floor. I suspec they call it this so the occupents will feel safe as the Tornado approaches the house. ) so it's just stud walls right now. As such I am free to finish it however I please. I khnow I will still want to place base traps in corners but this seems like it would be idea for a theater/media room to improve acoustics.

 

[bobnegi]

Wow, that sounds like a cool idea! I wonder if you would gain anything by filling the cavity between the studs with Roxul Safe n' Sound?. Being a split level, the sound has a tendancy to travel far, if I remember from experience, or I could have it backwards. The guy at Home Depot was telling me that Roxul is outselling the Owens Corning fibreglass bats by 5x. He said they are easy to cut with a serated knife, better sound absorption, and fire/mold (almost) proof.

 

[bobnegi]

My expereince with room acoustics/treatments

Then I heard the reflection, now I'm a believer
Not a trace of doubt in my mind.
I'm in audio bliss, I'm a believer!
I couldn't take them down if I tried...serious embellishment from a great song from the 60's

Anyways, my experience has been...I wish I would have paid attention or thought about room treatments years ago, it would have saved me a lot of grief and equipment upgrade costs.

Finally decided to put some credence into room treatments, had a friend come over and we did the clap test. My system suffers from brightness, and boomy bass. I could not believe how quick and easy it was to gain a noticeable improvement in sound quality..

The culprit in the room was an antique lamp right in front of the left main speaker, it has a heavy glass shade which turns out was acting as some kind of high frequency amplifier. Another one was the glass doors on a wall unit right next to said speaker. Then I re-positioned a fake plant from the side wall to the back wall. These three simple and free changes made a considerable difference, but did nothing for the bass issues.

Not wanting to spend any money on corner bass traps, or wanting to take the time to diy. I bought a bag of Roxul Safe 'n Sound 3" insulation (needed it for something else) decided to make some 4' high corner traps out of the insulation using duct tape and push pins to attach to the corners behind the viewing wall. They are very ugly looking, no cloth cover, and not built the recommended way. But they actually have made a noticable difference the bass is not as boomy or muddy, for the first time, a kick drum is actually starting to sound like a kick drum.

I have ordered some manufactured bass traps online, they will show up in a few weeks, I will put those ones in the top 4 corners, and see if it makes a difference. My next step will also be to order up some foam diffuser/absorbers from the same company. Comments would indicate that if the specs are for real this outfit charges approx. 1/2 the competition (www.thefoamfactory.com).

To say I am surprised by the difference would be an understatement, and eagerly awaiting the bass traps. I have never really been a big fan of heavy subwoofer sound, just want it clean and articulate. I have also ran a dedicated power line for the subs (not hooked up yet), and in my frenzy I also ordered up a SVS PB-1000. Chances are I will order another one of those once I complete the room treatments, and do sufficient testing to convince myself that like would be worth living, if only I had dual matching subs. Sigh, such is the life of an audiofool

 

[Darenwh]

I'm thinking it should work and the commercial grade wallpaper should cover any issues with the wallboard so I think I may have to give it a try. Since I have not bothered to finish the basement yet I won't be pulling any drywall down and this should make for an easier install. I need to get the electrical all done but other than that I think this will make for a painless install. I know, famous last words. Oh well. I may have to give it a try. I'm new to this so any success will be pure blind luck...
Daren

Oh, the cavity is already filled with regular insulation (just tossed in for now, will be stapling once I finish electrical work. Will also be running all speaker wiring and AV cabling plus cat6 for networking. I know, wireless works well but I like things hard wired where I can and since everything is open why not do it that way.

 

[twylight]

I think alot of the debate is what we call a room. Mine is 6 walls, sealed - 14.5x21x9 and it needs a little love especially if you sit in the back row - there is a lot of bouncing around going on.

Ive done 12 traps so far and I am happy with the results...If I could do it all over again I would just do custom DIY and really put alot in there instead of buying them (like complete front and back wall as well as ceiling, leave the side walls mixed so I dont deaden the room too much)