Whole house audio

[RobertM2010]

I recently purchased a new home that is fairly well "wired". I'm interested in installing a "whole house multi-zone audio" system. There is speaker cable wired to each room in two locations and Cat5e cable wired to a wall in each room, I'm assuming for volume controls. All the wiring comes back to a central closet/location and my "main" house computer is directly next to the closet.

I understand the concept of what needs to be done, but could someone point me in the right direction as far as "do-it-yourself" equipment for this type of project?

I've visited websites for products like NuVo and various others, but that seems a bit extreme [high priced] for what I am looking for and their products seem to be limited to dealers.

I'm totally comfortable with speaker installation and any wiring I might need to do, I'm just not quite sure where to start. Additionally, would these types of systems allow me to use my iTunes library as the source for the music?

Thanks for any help.
Robert

 

[TLS Guy]

I recently purchased a new home that is fairly well "wired". I'm interested in installing a "whole house multi-zone audio" system. There is speaker cable wired to each room in two locations and Cat5e cable wired to a wall in each room, I'm assuming for volume controls. All the wiring comes back to a central closet/location and my "main" house computer is directly next to the closet.

I understand the concept of what needs to be done, but could someone point me in the right direction as far as "do-it-yourself" equipment for this type of project?

I've visited websites for products like NuVo and various others, but that seems a bit extreme [high priced] for what I am looking for and their products seem to be limited to dealers.

I'm totally comfortable with speaker installation and any wiring I might need to do, I'm just not quite sure where to start. Additionally, would these types of systems allow me to use my iTunes library as the source for the music?

Thanks for any help.
Robert

These systems are complicated and costly. Unless you are knowledgeable professional installation is recommended. We have periodic posts from people who attempt these systems and make costly mistakes.

The next question to ask is if you really want this. You end up with pretty low Fi. You have to ask your self whether your money would be better spent on a dedicated room.

I personally can think of few things worse than these whole house audio systems.

 

[bandphan]

I recently purchased a new home that is fairly well "wired". I'm interested in installing a "whole house multi-zone audio" system. There is speaker cable wired to each room in two locations and Cat5e cable wired to a wall in each room, I'm assuming for volume controls. All the wiring comes back to a central closet/location and my "main" house computer is directly next to the closet.

I understand the concept of what needs to be done, but could someone point me in the right direction as far as "do-it-yourself" equipment for this type of project?

I've visited websites for products like NuVo and various others, but that seems a bit extreme [high priced] for what I am looking for and their products seem to be limited to dealers.

I'm totally comfortable with speaker installation and any wiring I might need to do, I'm just not quite sure where to start. Additionally, would these types of systems allow me to use my iTunes library as the source for the music?

Thanks for any help.
Robert

Anything can be "do it yourself" but there are learning curves. Manufactures like Niles Audio, Speakercraft, Russound as well as other make distribution preamps/amps with keypad controllers for each room. Then you can add hand held remotes from each of the above as well as companies like URC, and RTI which offer a wide range of remotes including ones with 2 way communication for viewing status of the gear to id meta tags. All this boils down to dollars. All of the options have IPOD/Tunes interfaces. You can certainly install the speakers or at least hang them and then decide about the rest.

 

[highfigh]

I recently purchased a new home that is fairly well "wired". I'm interested in installing a "whole house multi-zone audio" system. There is speaker cable wired to each room in two locations and Cat5e cable wired to a wall in each room, I'm assuming for volume controls. All the wiring comes back to a central closet/location and my "main" house computer is directly next to the closet.

I understand the concept of what needs to be done, but could someone point me in the right direction as far as "do-it-yourself" equipment for this type of project?

I've visited websites for products like NuVo and various others, but that seems a bit extreme [high priced] for what I am looking for and their products seem to be limited to dealers.

I'm totally comfortable with speaker installation and any wiring I might need to do, I'm just not quite sure where to start. Additionally, would these types of systems allow me to use my iTunes library as the source for the music?

Thanks for any help.
Robert

You can do this as a simple system, or complicated. If you want to play music from only one or two sources at the speaker locations at one time, Parts Express has a 6 Zone power amp that has two sets of input jacks, triggered turn-on/auto turn-on (with input signal), it's bridgeable and it's reasonably priced. Then, you can use a separate receiver to control the volume and do the source switching. Audio Source sells the same amp for more than double the price from Parts Express. Then, you'll need volume controls for each speaker area and Niles has one that is muted until hte button is pressed after turning the system on. You would use two wires of the Cat5e to supply 12VDC to the control (a wall wart is used for the power supply) and you can use the courtesy outlet on the receiver to turn the 12V on and off. The good thing about this control is that it eliminates turning mucic on in areas where it would disturb someone, unless they want it on and at that time, the mute button is pressed to turn it on in that area. It would also be pressed if they want it off. The control only has one input but that's usually not a problem. If you want to control input from each zone separately from any other zones, you could use the Zone 2 output from the receiver, like a Denon DRA-397. You would leave the receiver's volume set at one level and control the level at each room's control.

You can use reasonably priced speakers, or you can spend a boatload on them. It's your choice. You can also use regular bookshelf or floor-standing speakers but if the speaker wire runs are extremely long, you won't get the best fidelity because of the way signal is lost over long runs.

Yes, you can use iTunes as the source but if you don't use a high bit rate, the sound won't be very good, so that alone will make a few decisions for you, as far as equipment choices. The best equipment won't make low bit rate audio sound good.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

For some reason Home Automation always gets under TLS's skin.

This can very well be done by any DIY'er and it can be fun and sound good.

BMX will get on here and give you about a million options. You can keep it simple or you can get as complicated as you want.

You will need to tell us a budget, what exactly you want to do and how many rooms.

I have a very basic 3 room system all running off of one AVR using NILES gear that cost me next to nothing.

The Russound Collage system is something I would seriously look into.

 

[bandphan]

To give you and idea of pricing, This thread has the retail prices for URC's new gear. Its all about the level of control you want. If it were me Id get the most control you can afford and maybe add more later as funds become available. If your only at two rooms know, you might consider your future needs when making the purchases. A lot of people kick themselves hard for buying twice

 

[RobertM2010]

Thanks for the quick responses. This definitely gives me a good starting point. The URC products look pretty good.

I'm dealing with 8 zones and I was thinking in the $2,400-$3,000 range excluding speakers.

My goal was audio only available to any zone with perhaps four different sources....but I'm willing to drop it down to two different sources depending on the budget.

From what I've read/heard, I'd like for the controls to be digitally based so I'm assuming this rules out the more "basic" design of a few amps and pot-style volume controls.

I'll do some more reading but thanks again for the responses.

Robert

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

Home Theater Direct has some of the best deals on I’ve seen on multi-room systems, and they seem to cover the spectrum from basic to fairly sophisticated.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[BMXTRIX]

If you are looking for multi-source, multi-room with individual controls, then your budget may be on the 'low' side, but it's FAR more about the learning curve.

For example, in a typical job like this I would use Crestron, mostly because I know Crestron backwards and forwards - but also because it is dead reliable and I can get, test, and verify working stuff that I get on eBay for far less than cost is and pass savings on.

8 12-button keypads (one for each room) - About $1,000 total.
1 PAD8A - 8 zone, 8 source pre-amp - About $700
1 MC2e - Controller (turns things on/off and controls sources) - About $500
2 12-channel amps - Gives you individual amplification for all rooms - About $800 (*maybe)

Yeah, this sits right around $3,000 and is dead on killer reliable and gives you exactly what you would want, less the speakers (and programming).

You can see with this link that there are a number of options, but I'm not really sure what is there which truly is not only user programmable, but will provide a dead-on solid product for you at the end of the day.

http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?srchExt=Cat&srchCat=562&CFID=23365725&CFTOKEN=67801641

I love our distributed audio system - 14 zones and counting, but it really is about convenience. I would make sure you have a source in place which allows you to truly press one button and hear music that you enjoy. XM Radio may be a good source which can do this, or a FM (or HD?) tuner.

We could work backwards to lesser expensive setups, but realistically, you've set your goals and you do have a budget which allows for it, so that's probably the way to go. Buying new gear will likely give you less reliability or control for the same money, but check eBay and perhaps a local installer to see what they can offer you.

Heck, I could probably get it installed (less speakers) for about $3,000 since everything is in place. Especially if it is all properly labelled.

The starting point really is finding a decent pre-amp/switcher and keypads which will work with it properly.

I always disagree with TLS on this since I continue to say that the WIRING isn't the issue if quality wire was pulled of decent gauge, and a quality stereo pre-amp isn't the issue, and a decent amp isn't the issue, so the only thing left is the speakers and the room itself. Since you have full control over the speakers you get, then that's up to you. But, the rooms can always be of issue. But, the only thing I can promise you is that Monoprice speakers combined with cruddy components will still sound worlds better in the laundry room than having to crank the speakers up on the 'good' system in the basement! Like I said, we love our setup.

 

[naeblis11]

nuvo install

I went with the nuvo grand concerto, and installed it myself. I purchased the grand concerto and the music port from a local dealer for a little more than your budget. Speakers not included. I'm sure there are other solutions, but I'm glad I went with this system. The music port allows me to play all of my library of mp3's from my computer, all from a remote or the keypad. All was fairly straight forward with the install.

 

[TLS Guy]

For some reason Home Automation always gets under TLS's skin.

This can very well be done by any DIY'er and it can be fun and sound good.

BMX will get on here and give you about a million options. You can keep it simple or you can get as complicated as you want.

You will need to tell us a budget, what exactly you want to do and how many rooms.

I have a very basic 3 room system all running off of one AVR using NILES gear that cost me next to nothing.

The Russound Collage system is something I would seriously look into.

Its not the automation that bugs me, its the sound available everywhere and usually from the ceiling, that I find anathema.

If I'm invited to a house with audio from on high everywhere, I'm alert to bad omens for the evening. I hate all this in commercial establishments, and certainly would not want it in my home!

I do think before embarking on these system people should be introspective about whether that is something they really want or need, versus having a good dedicated room, to enjoy as the mood strikes.

There is a lot to be said for peace and quiet and being alone with ones thoughts.

Yes, in short I do regard these types of systems as part of the tyranny of the modern age.

 

[highfigh]

Its not the automation that bugs me, its the sound available everywhere and usually from the ceiling, that I find anathema.

If I'm invited to a house with audio from on high everywhere, I'm alert to bad omens for the evening. I hate all this in commercial establishments, and certainly would not want it in my home!

I do think before embarking on these system people should be introspective about whether that is something they really want or need, versus having a good dedicated room, to enjoy as the mood strikes.

There is a lot to be said for peace and quiet and being alone with ones thoughts.

Yes, in short I do regard these types of systems as part of the tyranny of the modern age.

In a retail or commercial environment, we don't have a choice- it's there and we can't control it but at home, we always have the option of turning it off. Putting speakers in the ceiling is a good way to not see them. They may not sound as good as floor standing speakers but we all know that sound quality isn't the main concern of many people, convenience is. Just look at the popularity and bad sound from MP3 players, the files played and the little, crappy ear buds used with them for evidence.

Interior detonators hate seeing audio equipment and when someone hires a designer/detonator, they will tend to do what is recommended because A) they think that person can be trusted, B) they pay a whole lot of money for their service and as mentioned before, C) sound quality took a back seat to appearance and convenience.

Another reason to hate omni-present music is that, in most commercial/retail locations, the music itself is more objectionable than the fact that it's always there. If they played something good, it might not be as hard to take.

 

[InTheIndustry]

I recently purchased a new home that is fairly well "wired". I'm interested in installing a "whole house multi-zone audio" system. There is speaker cable wired to each room in two locations and Cat5e cable wired to a wall in each room, I'm assuming for volume controls. All the wiring comes back to a central closet/location and my "main" house computer is directly next to the closet.

I understand the concept of what needs to be done, but could someone point me in the right direction as far as "do-it-yourself" equipment for this type of project?

I've visited websites for products like NuVo and various others, but that seems a bit extreme [high priced] for what I am looking for and their products seem to be limited to dealers.

I'm totally comfortable with speaker installation and any wiring I might need to do, I'm just not quite sure where to start. Additionally, would these types of systems allow me to use my iTunes library as the source for the music?

Thanks for any help.
Robert

Thanks for the quick responses. This definitely gives me a good starting point. The URC products look pretty good.

I'm dealing with 8 zones and I was thinking in the $2,400-$3,000 range excluding speakers.

My goal was audio only available to any zone with perhaps four different sources....but I'm willing to drop it down to two different sources depending on the budget.

From what I've read/heard, I'd like for the controls to be digitally based so I'm assuming this rules out the more "basic" design of a few amps and pot-style volume controls.

I'll do some more reading but thanks again for the responses.

Robert

Does all of your speaker wire come into one central location? It's tough to tell from your post.

Regardless, here's the absolute best, most cost effect way that I can think of to do 8 zones and 2 (or more) sources. Assuming all of the speaker wire is run into one closet.....

1 - Sonos Bundle 250. Cost: $1000 (two sources - one without an amp, which is covered later). This is available through dealers and comes with a fantastic touch screen controller. If you have an iPhone, iTouch, or iPad DO NOT buy the bundle because you can use either of those as touch screen controllers with Sonos for FREE. Buy 1 - ZP120 & 1 - ZP90. Cost: $850. If you want to add more zones/sources to control independantly, great! Just buy more zone players as you want to expand @ $350 (non-amped) - $500 (self amplified) each.
1 - Sonos Zone Bridge $100 (plug into your router)
1 - Onkyo TX8255. Cost: $160ish. Plug ZP90 Zone Player into this receiver/Amp. Will allow for local radio not broadcast over the internet as well as the ability to add other sources.
2 - Dayton Audio TS-4VC 2-Source 4 Room Selector Switch. Cost: $185 each x 2 = $370.

Total Cost (assuming NO iTouch, iPad, iPhone) : Considerably Less than $2000. If you wanted to go to 4 zone players to mix and match sources and control throughout your 8 zones you're still under $3000.

I am assuming that there is NO speaker wire run to where the key pads are? If there IS, than skip the selector switches and purchase impedance matching volume controls at about $20 a room and use those instead. This would be the ideal thing to do if possible. The switches from Dayton audio will require you to go to your equipment rack/closet to turn individual rooms off or on. In practical use, this is not a big concession for most of our clients.

The problem you're going to have is the brain of the person who wired your home. Not that they aren't smart, just that they might have wired your home in such a way that your options are limited &/or expensive. Without question, in the 10 years I’ve been "InTheIndustry" Sonos is the absolute KING of whole house audio at this point compared to anything else ever created for the market. Nothing touches it on any level or any price. To do 8 independent zones with 8 sources on board/16 source capable and full touch screen control (no in wall volume controls or key pads needed) you're looking at around $4000 if you have an itouch, iPad, or iPhone. That's dirt cheap compared to anything out there for that many zones/sources/rooms for a system that nothing else compares to.

Oh, and did I mention...

- It streams Rhapsody, ANY internet radio station broadcast over the internet, Pandora radio, Sirius Satellite Radio, Napster, your own personal music library, and much more right out of the box?

- There is literally under 10 mins of programming. Easiest thing in the world for an end user to set up.

- Yes, it will allow you to mess with your iTunes. I doubt you'd want to after using Rhapsody, but you can.

Lastly, and I don’t want to sound snarky, but whole house audio is a luxury item. As are most things in the consumer electronic industry. Meaning: You gotta’ pay to play. Think of it like this…. A manufacturer assumes that someone with 8 zones of audio in their home has a larger home. Larger home = Larger income. Larger income should = Larger disposable income for luxury goods. Bigger is more expensive and it should be because… it’s bigger, costs more to engineer & manufacture, etc. Go down to a 4 zone system with keypads and you can get away with something entry level, plug n play from Nuvo for $1000. Sonos is still much much better and less expensive because it includes sources that the Nuvo systems couldn’t begin to touch . I know because I’m still an authorized dealer of Nuvo even though I haven’t bought a Nuvo or any other keypad based product since I discovered Sonos 3 years ago. There’s no sense in it.

www.Sonos.com Hope this helps!

 

[InTheIndustry]

For those hating on distributed audio you're the unusual exeption, not the rule.

For most people it's a fantastic thing to have in a home as long as it's done properly - and that doesn't always have to mean with upper-end speakers (although, that always helps!). Even $200 a pair in-ceilings can function well enough to be enjoyed if installed and used properly in a user friendly system.

In the end, it's all about perspective.... I guess.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I do think before embarking on these system people should be introspective about whether that is something they really want or need, versus having a good dedicated room, to enjoy as the mood strikes.

I find it very difficult to use my dedicated system when I am setting in my favorie seat.

 

[bandphan]

I find it very difficult to use my dedicated system when I am setting in my favorie seat.

For Me distribution is hell of a lot of fun. Its easy to setup a dedicated room (unless your dealing with a bad spAce). My customers always love the "toy" aspect. What many don't get is distributed AV isn't easy to get right. It takes a well thought out system to perform well, even as back round music. Just ask the members that setup their own, it wasn't a cake walk.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I find it very difficult to use my dedicated system when I am setting in my favorie seat.

That's why you go to Crestron...

They have their waterproof 'remote on a rope' - it floats!

 

[ParadigmDawg]

That's why you go to Crestron...

They have their waterproof 'remote on a rope' - it floats!

If you or Bandphan lived in Texas I would be in trouble.

 

[RobertM2010]

Thanks again for all the feedback. The Sonus system is looking pretty good. All of the speaker cables feed back to a central "control room" closet as well as Cat5 from each room. The Cat5 is in the correct locations for volume/keypads, so I think the installers had a pretty good idea of what they were doing.

I have a dedicated listening area but that's for when myself or someone else that appreciates decent sounding audio comes over and wants to listen to music.

The idea of "whole house" audio for me is #1: It will make my wife happy, as she could care less about the quality [within reason] and more about the convienence of being able to move about the house listening to "her" music. When she's happy, I can pretty much buy all the toys [within reason] I want. And she's not such a decorator/design freak that she can't appreciate the "wow" factor or the fact that sometimes high quality audio/video equipment might not match the rest of the room.

My other reason is that we do like to entertain and houses I have been to that have whole house audio always seem to have a nice "feel" as far as the party/get together is concerned. Granted, I've been in plenty of homes where the music playing sucks or just isn't my taste and it doesn't matter what kind of system it's coming from. But I think that's more a function of the host, not the audio system.

As far as "larger income = larger home", I still like to tackle projects that I know I'm capable of doing myself in my quest to save money.

Thanks again for all of the excellent responses.

Robert

 

[InTheIndustry]

Thanks again for all the feedback. The Sonus system is looking pretty good. All of the speaker cables feed back to a central "control room" closet as well as Cat5 from each room. The Cat5 is in the correct locations for volume/keypads, so I think the installers had a pretty good idea of what they were doing.

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that the installers were not smart or were incapable. What I meant was that sometimes installers only think one way & for one type of control or audio system and wire a house for only THAT way. It's not a "wrong" line of thinking, but it limits do-it-yourselfers down the road. For example: Because of the specific type of system a company sells at the time, you can't do independent volume controls in each room without buying a keypad based system that only uses Cat5 at the interface (like a Nuvo, for example).

I have a dedicated listening area but that's for when myself or someone else that appreciates decent sounding audio comes over and wants to listen to music.

The idea of "whole house" audio for me is #1: It will make my wife happy, as she could care less about the quality [within reason] and more about the convenience of being able to move about the house listening to "her" music. When she's happy, I can pretty much buy all the toys [within reason] I want. And she's not such a decorator/design freak that she can't appreciate the "wow" factor or the fact that sometimes high quality audio/video equipment might not match the rest of the room.

My other reason is that we do like to entertain and houses I have been to that have whole house audio always seem to have a nice "feel" as far as the party/get together is concerned. Granted, I've been in plenty of homes where the music playing sucks or just isn't my taste and it doesn't matter what kind of system it's coming from. But I think that's more a function of the host, not the audio system.

As far as "larger income = larger home", I still like to tackle projects that I know I'm capable of doing myself in my quest to save money.

And I totally get that & agree! My comment was in relation to typical system/equipment cost, not labor or installation. Heck, I just used my 10 years "InTheIndustry" worth of blood, sweat, tears, and money to help design your system for free, right? All that's left to do is hook it up! I'm allllll about saving where you can save as long as you get exactly what you want! It's amazing how many posts come through the boards where someone has these visions of grandeur but become cynical and accuse the world of "ripping people off" (which definitely happens sometimes, I know) when they find out their MEGA system costs MEGA bucks. In your case & with Sonos, an incredible system should not.

I had a serious discussion with another integrator last night where we disagreed on appropriate labor costs. He bases his charges and estimates, no matter what his company's doing in the home, based on the size of the client's house/cars/wallet (income). Basically: He charges whatever he thinks he can get away with. This makes for a completely inconsistent pricing structure that I feel is dirty. Custom work is custom work and should have custom bids. However, there are many many "basics" or SOPs for companies that are similar (within reason) no matter what the financial position of a client.

Thanks again for all of the excellent responses.

Robert

My responses are in BOLD. I hope this clears some stuff up!