Which Yamaha is more comparable to the Denon 2200?

[20to20K]

My Denon 2200 Universal DVD player just died on my after 2 years and 11 months of service. Fortunetely I paid the extra bucks for the 3 year replacement warranty with Tweeter. Just waltzed in there...didn't have
the receipt...they looked it up on their data base and they went in the back to give me a brand new player. No questions asked.

Here's the problem...Tweeter no longer carries Denon so the dealer told me he would have to replace it with a comparable Yamaha. I don't hate Yamaha...but I love Denon so I'm already bothered by this upfront. The Yamaha he was telling me was was most comparable with DVD S1700 which
lists for $469. They also have the S2700 which lists for $995. I believe my
Denon 2200 originally listed for $699 when I bought it in 2004.

Obviously they are going to fight tooth and nail to avoid giving me the 2700, but supposedly the 2700 has more upgraded electronics over the 1700 that improves the sound quality. I always had the notion in my head (perhaps
because of personal bias) that the Denon was a slightly better quality machine than the Yamaha so in my head I think I need those better electronics to make up that difference. Hell...it's not MY fault you don't
carry my favorite brand anymore. Do I have a leg to stand on to demand the 2700 as a replacement or should I not look a gift horse in the mouth?

20to20K

 

[j_garcia]

I'd take the 1700 and sell it new in box, then pick up an Oppo 970 or 981 instead (or even a Sony S300). They don't have anywhere near the built quality of the Denons, but the performance is there for sure. The 970 has better picture quality than my 2900 and it also comes very close in terms of quality with SACD, so it would be hard to recommend any higher dollar player unless you are looking for it for audio primarily.

 

[alexsound]

My Denon 2200 Universal DVD player just died on my after 2 years and 11 months of service. Fortunetely I paid the extra bucks for the 3 year replacement warranty with Tweeter. Just waltzed in there...didn't have
the receipt...they looked it up on their data base and they went in the back to give me a brand new player. No questions asked.

Here's the problem...Tweeter no longer carries Denon so the dealer told me he would have to replace it with a comparable Yamaha. I don't hate Yamaha...but I love Denon so I'm already bothered by this upfront. The Yamaha he was telling me was was most comparable with DVD S1700 which
lists for $469. They also have the S2700 which lists for $995. I believe my
Denon 2200 originally listed for $699 when I bought it in 2004.

Obviously they are going to fight tooth and nail to avoid giving me the 2700, but supposedly the 2700 has more upgraded electronics over the 1700 that improves the sound quality. I always had the notion in my head (perhaps
because of personal bias) that the Denon was a slightly better quality machine than the Yamaha so in my head I think I need those better electronics to make up that difference. Hell...it's not MY fault you don't
carry my favorite brand anymore. Do I have a leg to stand on to demand the 2700 as a replacement or should I not look a gift horse in the mouth?

20to20K

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth !!
You can try to complain, and maybe you may have a leg to stand on, but read the fine print of your warranty. I've dealt with the "Tweeter/Lack of Sound Advice" stores and I don't think they'll budge, and because they are no longer a dealer of that particular brand, they can offer an "equavilant" of their choice. The good news is the Yamaha 1700 is probably pretty darn close, if not equal in most respects if not all, to the Denon 2200 on the audio side. On the video side, I'm willing to bet it's a superior machine. I know, I'll probably get flack for this one, but while I also like Denon, the 2200 really is closer to the 1700 than the 2700, which is in my opinion definately a superior A & V DVD player than the 2200. Oh yeah, don't know if this matters, but the S1700 does upconvert to 1080P.

 

[ski2xblack]

Yamaha S1700 for music

I use an S1700 primarily for music, and I have no gripes against it after several months of use. For red book cd's it's marginally superior to a (very old but excellent sounding) Sony X111ES unit I have, and clearly superior to a Rotel model I have since donated to my girlfriend.

j_garcia's suggestion is good if you're looking to squeeze a few ducats out of the situation, but with the added hassle of two extra transactions. Selling items is a pain, and you always take a loss on gear in this part of the audio spectrum. Even with the cost difference with the Oppo, it sounds like more trouble than it's worth. The Yamaha's build quality is likely superior to the Oppo as well, and that can go a long way in terms of owner satisfaction. I doubt you would be dissatisfied with the S1700, and audio-wise it would probably be indistinguishable from what you are used to.

 

[j_garcia]

No doubt that the 2200 is closer to teh 1700 than the 2700. If they are giving you a new in box 1700 though, you won't be losing money on the deal even charging less than MSRP. You DO have the hassle of selling it though... While the built quality of the Oppos isn't so impressive, they are so cheap, you can buy TWO for the price of a 1700 and be set for years, not to mention they come with a 1yr warranty even on their refurb items (direct from them).

 

[Thunder18]

I know the Best Buy near me sells Denon via their Magnolia section. What if you were to take the Yamaha and ask for a credit at Magnolia/Best Buy or possibly exchange it there if they allow it. Most stores allow exchanges without receipt or some kind of store credit.

 

[ski2xblack]

If the Denon preference sways you, I think you should follow Thunder's advice, assuming you can find a compliant merchant. j-garcia's advice is very sound considering the price differences involved. I guess it just depends on if the cosmetics or brand preferences will ultimately determine your choice. (The purist and capitalist in me says that these should not be factors, but there is value in liking what you have.) For what it's worth, I think the Yamaha is classy looking, and I like the Denon piece's appearance too, very similar; cosmetically speaking, I would prefer either to an Oppo unit. I don't think the sound would be any better, whichever unit you end up with.

I recently had not one but two equipment failures (universal player and pre-amp), and they are frustrating. Sorry that you are facing this, but at least you are covered and have some options.

OT- j_garcia, my hat's off to you for being the impetus for one of the most hilarious threads I've seen here. I recently read about the guy who purchased an SVS sub based on your recommendation, only to find that it is as big as a refrigerator and probably more massive, and that the sub has bass capabilites far beyond what he expected. That was one of the most entertaining threads on audio gear I've ever read.

 

[j_garcia]

In the very simplest case, you can at least try out the 1700 and see if you like it... If you are looking for an upgrade, then see if they will let you do that like I mentioned before; don't expect they will upgrade you for free.

OT- j_garcia, my hat's off to you for being the impetus for one of the most hilarious threads I've seen here. I recently read about the guy who purchased an SVS sub based on your recommendation, only to find that it is as big as a refrigerator and probably more massive, and that the sub has bass capabilites far beyond what he expected. That was one of the most entertaining threads on audio gear I've ever read.

LOL. I always try to let people know that these guys are NOT small, but it still fails to fully hit home until it shows up on the door step

 

[20to20K]

Thanks for all the sound advice guys...

...turns out that Tweeter does not sell the 2700...I guess it's too upscale for them. The only option they left me with was sending my 2200 in for service, paying for it completely and giving me a 1 year warranty on it afterwards instead of the normal 90 repair warranty. I actually considered this for a while...till I found out the repairs could take 6-8 weeks. I also considered selling the Yammie NIB on Ebay then buying a Denon on my own. I decided I didn't want to deal with the hassle of doing so and this too could have taken several weeks to complete.

Ultimately I just sucked it up and took the Yamaha and integrated it into my system. I haven't had a chance to give it a critical listen/look...but I probably will this weekend. I will say this. The look and build quality is no where near as impressive as the Denon machine. It looks pretty close to a Walmat $99 machine to my eye. Hard to believe this thing lists for even $469. I guess I'm just a Denon guy through and through.

Unfortunetely I didn't see the post about bringing it to Magnolia until after I opened the Yamaha. I would have never thought in a million years Best Buy would do such a thing. Obviously they won't now since I've already opened it.

Just like Joe Jackson says..."You can't always get what you want".

20to20K

 

[20to20K]

The upconvert thingie...

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth !!
You can try to complain, and maybe you may have a leg to stand on, but read the fine print of your warranty. I've dealt with the "Tweeter/Lack of Sound Advice" stores and I don't think they'll budge, and because they are no longer a dealer of that particular brand, they can offer an "equavilant" of their choice. The good news is the Yamaha 1700 is probably pretty darn close, if not equal in most respects if not all, to the Denon 2200 on the audio side. On the video side, I'm willing to bet it's a superior machine. I know, I'll probably get flack for this one, but while I also like Denon, the 2200 really is closer to the 1700 than the 2700, which is in my opinion definately a superior A & V DVD player than the 2200. Oh yeah, don't know if this matters, but the S1700 does upconvert to 1080P.

The salesman tried to push the upconvert point on me as the reason that the 1700 was "better" than my 2200 and I wasn't having it. Upconverting wasn't around in 2004 when I bought my 2200 so that feature is irrelavent. That's like saying a 2007 Kia is a better car than a 1990 Mercedes S Class because it has airbags!

He didn't appreciate my analogy...

 

[alexsound]

The salesman tried to push the upconvert point on me as the reason that the 1700 was "better" than my 2200 and I wasn't having it. Upconverting wasn't around in 2004 when I bought my 2200 so that feature is irrelavent. That's like saying a 2007 Kia is a better car than a 1990 Mercedes S Class because it has airbags!

He didn't appreciate my analogy...

Oh, come on. Maybe a 2007 Camry would have been a little better example than a Kia !
But seriously, this is a problem with all AV electronics, especially today. The model number turnover (change) seems to be every 6-8 months now on average, and Denon now really doesn't have a player in the same price category as your 2200 except maybe the 2930 which retails @ $850.00 and probably is superior in just about every way to the 2200. The next lower model is the 1930 which retails @ $ 369.00. I bet you anything, if Tweeter still had Denon, I bet you ANYTHING they would have given you the 1930 as a replacement. I tell you, I've dealt with these guys (under the 'Sound Advice") name, here in Florida and I still say count your blessings. I know that the 1700 doesnt' live up in build quality to the 2200 you have, hell, that's the reason the 2200 was almost 300 bucks more expensive, but give the 1700 a chance. If you can look past the obvious "lesser" build quality, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how good it's audio and video performance actually is.

 

[j_garcia]

I know what you mean about how the look and feel, but like I said before with the Oppos, build quality isn't a sign that the player can't perform. The Oppos scored higher than the $3000 5910 in progressive comparison and it only costs $200. The one I have is $150 and clearly has a better picture than my $1000 2900 (of course it is upconverting). The 2900 is better with hirez audio, but only by a surprisingly small margin. Now that it is already open, give it a spin and see how you like it. If you aren't happy with it, let Tweeter know.

 

[gmichael]

Why not offer them the difference between the $995.00 and the $699.00 and go for the 2700?

 

[j_garcia]

Because they don't carry the 2700.

 

[gmichael]

Because they don't carry the 2700.

Yeah, sorry. I hadn't read that far. My bad.

 

[j_garcia]

It's cool, that was one of my first recommendations too - pay the difference for the one you want. My dealer offered me this option when I had a channel on my integrated amp die - they said it will be 2 months before we can get it back from service, so they would just let me pay the difference and get the new model instead.

 

[gmichael]

It's too bad that Tweeter dropped the Denons. Although I am a Yamaha fan for receivers, I'd rather have a Denon for DVD or CD players etc.

 

[alexsound]

It's too bad that Tweeter dropped the Denons. Although I am a Yamaha fan for receivers, I'd rather have a Denon for DVD or CD players etc.

Too bad indeed. I don't see a very bright future for Tweeter. They very recently filed for bankruptcy. I know, I know, it's the "reorganization" type.
They say they are going back to concentrating on custom installs and high end sales, etc, but I know for a fact (got a freind who is a independent installer) they have pissed off quite a few of their vendors. I'm not saying Denon pulling out is because of this, but look at what they have lost just in the past 3 yrs. Klipsch, Infinity, Boston Acoustics, B&W and now Denon. They will only have Yamaha and Pioneer for high end receivers, BOTH of which can be gotten now at BB/Magnolia. They still, from my understanding have Krell, and Focal, Polk LSI series, and Martin Logan, but for how much longer ? They tried to bring in the JBL Studio series and from out of their own salespeople's mouths, it's tanking big time.

 

[j_garcia]

The funny thing is Magnolia WAS Tweeter...on the west coast until Best Buy bought that portion of their chain from them. So basically BB added the higher end brands and then stuck them in all their stores and that is putting a lot of pressure back on Tweeter.

 

[alexsound]

I really wish Tweeter had never bought out Sound Advice on the east coast. The sales people at Sound Advice back then were still ***** for the most part, but they at least had better equipment on display and for sale than anyone else in around, so they could sort of afford to be. Even then, when they had a sale, it was a big deal because the more money challenged people (ME) could get some pretty good gear cheap, relatively speaking.