Which to buy SVS PC 2000 Pro or SVS SB 3000?

[sergix]

Hi, I need some advice. I'm deciding between buying the SVS PC2000 Pro and SVS SB-3000 (unfortunately I don't have room for the PB version). We have an open living room (so including the dining room and kitchen) it is approximately 6000 cubic feet. The only place for a subwoofer is in the corner by the corner window. Usage 30% music 70% movies. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Steve81]

Hi, I need some advice. I'm deciding between buying the SVS PC2000 Pro and SVS SB-3000 (unfortunately I don't have room for the PB version). We have an open living room (so including the dining room and kitchen) it is approximately 6000 cubic feet. The only place for a subwoofer is in the corner by the corner window. Usage 30% music 70% movies. Thanks for the advice!

Hi there! That footprint restriction is a b*tch Based on the volume of the space alone, it would seem like either sub would struggle, though if the sub was placed close to the seating area that could help a bit.

Review of the SB3000
Review of the PC2000

Below 40Hz, the PC2000 has a clear advantage, giving decent low end rumble; conversely, the SB3000 has a big advantage in upper bass punch. It's a tradeoff, and a crappy one since you want both punch and rumble. Note, that the PC2000 is also only rated for a 3000-5000cf room as well. If you could potentially squeeze more space, the Hsu VTF-3 MK5 would give you the best of both worlds for your budget.

A preview on the Hsu

Note, numbers on their site are to a different standard than ours.

 

[sergix]

Thank you for The answer. Do you think that SB 3000 at normal volume will play too quietly at frequencies around 20Hz?
What concerns the space, specifically, the living room is less than 16.5x16.5m2, i.e. 3800 cubic feet (total 260 m2, ceiling 15 feet), listening position distance from SW is 10 feet.

 

[Steve81]

Thank you for The answer. Do you think that SB 3000 at normal volume will play too quietly at frequencies around 20Hz?
What concerns the space, specifically, the living room is less than 16.5x16.5m2, i.e. 3800 cubic feet (total 260 m2, ceiling 15 feet), listening position distance from SW is 10 feet.

James recorded a max burst output of 93.6dB at 20Hz at 2 meters, so yeah…not a lot of output. As long as your volume desires are in line, the PC2000 is the only way you’re likely getting decent 20Hz performance with your physical requirements. Just don’t expect to get a lot of chest punch out of the deal. For reference, I had the PC-12NSD once upon a time (a predecessor, with similar performance), and that was always my big complaint. It was pretty good though for what it was. I remember one of the first movies I watched was The Green Zone, and the opening scene was Operation Shock and Awe. I was shocked and awes alright.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

A tough one indeed. At 20hz it would take roughly four sb3k’s to equal the output of the pb2k pro. As said, the trade off is midbass punch. Imo, there aren’t many sealed subs that would do justice in that big of space. I might try and fit a pair of PC2k pros. Or look at other brands entirely.

 

[johnettet]

I choose SVS PC 2000 Pro

 

[Wardog555]

Is a other room an option?
I highly doubt you're going to get adequate performance for either of them with this unacceptable restriction.

 

[Oggaaaa]

If you have the budget for the PC-4000 I would recommend that. I upgraded from the SB-2000 Pro and the difference in deep bass is insane.

 

[sergix]

One more thing; do you think it would not be a problem to place 2 different subwoofers? i mean 1x SB 3000 and 1x PC 2000 Pro? because I don't have space for 2 PC 2000 Pro and 2 SB 3000 won't have enough deep bass anyway

 

[TheAVInsider]

One more thing; do you think it would not be a problem to place 2 different subwoofers? i mean 1x SB 3000 and 1x PC 2000 Pro? because I don't have space for 2 PC 2000 Pro and 2 SB 3000 won't have enough deep bass anyway

I own
two SVS PC2000 Pro's
and
two SVS SV3000's...

None of the above currently sit in my approx. 6000sqft. open concept high channel count listening space. I've tried them all in various near-field and far-field configurations. Movies and music.

Mixing ported and sealed is just a bad idea, so don't even plan for that. I tried mixing them all in the open space, but this caused more problems than it solved.

They are awesome in my other small rooms though.

SB3000's catty cornered in the bedroom.
PC2000 Pro's in the front corners of the small, but dedicated HT.

I did get the SB3000's to work well in the larger room for near field behind 2 seats for tactile response only, but I just like them better hidden away from sight in my bedroom setup.

There are better ways to allocate your funds for higher bass spl and lower extension in your large room than the two options you are concerned with here. 12's are just too small for what you are asking them to do.

To do it right, you either have to spend a lot more, or go DIY. Buy once, cry once. You will do far better with DIY 18's and separate amps. Plus, you will need more than one anyway, to pressurize a room as big as yours. Dual 18's in a single cabinet could work well in your room, especially for a small seating area situated 10 feet away, with a good calibration. It doesn't matter a lot how close you are though, when the entire space is sucking out most of the energy. Space is going to be your biggest obstacle to achieving better bass.

 

[mdd]

I see that on paper an SVS SB-3000 or PC-2000 would fall below recommendations for a room of that size, but I am trying to better understand how to predict in-room response.

I am in a similar situation to sergix. I have an open living room + dining room with similar total volume. Furniture and cosmetics mean that nothing larger than 2xSVS SB-3000 or 2xSVS PC-2000 will fly. The cylinder shape of the PC-2000 might let me get away with the larger volume; PB-2000 or even PB-1000 size+shape is not an option, and PC-4000 is too tall.

I'm currently running 1xGallo TR-3D subwoofer and measuring ~flat response 20Hz to 100Hz, which makes me hope that I can get good results from 2xSVS SB-3000.

Measurement details: REW + umik-1 mic with no smoothing. All measured at MLP.

• Frequency response: "Flat" from 20Hz to 100Hz -- 20Hz level equals any level in that range; 5-7 dB dips at 27Hz, 45Hz, 70Hz; deep, narrow suckout at 92Hz; steep rolloff below 20Hz.
• SPL and distortion: A sweep that produces 85dB fundamental has distortion peaking at 55dB (-30dB); a sweep that produces 100dB fundamental has distortion peaking at 80dB (-20dB); turning volume up further produces negligible increases at fundamental, raises measured distortion, and produces obvious audible distortion.
• The TR-3D's specs are not overwhelming -- 10" sealed, 300w; I am using the "Bass +6dB" switch to apply a +6dB boost centered at 30Hz, no q specified.
• The sub is located midway on the left wall; I tried a corner position and got a few dB of gain, but didn't like the sound (too much mid-base boom.)

I am hoping that dual SB-3000 would be a meaningful upgrade. I'm mainly hoping to get flatter response via multi-sub, but a few more dB of headroom would be a welcome bonus. Given the SB-3000's much better specs (10" --> 13"; 300w --> 800w; 2010 Gallo --> 2023 SVS), is this a reasonable expectation?

I might also be able to get away with 2x PC-2000, which has the benefit of deeper (on paper) bass response at higher SPL. But, I'm worried that moving from sealed to ported will reduce room gain (?). I would also have less flexibility on positioning, which seems like a major disadvantage. Would this be a better option?

 

[TheAVInsider]

The PC-2000's are shockingly light weight (for ported) subs. So much so that when I first picked them up, I thought there weren't any drivers in the cabinet. When I turned them over and saw the drivers, I still wondered if they were somehow switched with dummy drivers. Had I realized these were light weight subs before I purchased them, I probably would've went another route.
Achy Breaky, heavy subs make me Shaky
Others actually may enjoy having the light weight option though.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I see that on paper an SVS SB-3000 or PC-2000 would fall below recommendations for a room of that size, but I am trying to better understand how to predict in-room response.

I am in a similar situation to sergix. I have an open living room + dining room with similar total volume. Furniture and cosmetics mean that nothing larger than 2xSVS SB-3000 or 2xSVS PC-2000 will fly. The cylinder shape of the PC-2000 might let me get away with the larger volume; PB-2000 or even PB-1000 size+shape is not an option, and PC-4000 is too tall.

I'm currently running 1xGallo TR-3D subwoofer and measuring ~flat response 20Hz to 100Hz, which makes me hope that I can get good results from 2xSVS SB-3000.

Measurement details: REW + umik-1 mic with no smoothing. All measured at MLP.

• Frequency response: "Flat" from 20Hz to 100Hz -- 20Hz level equals any level in that range; 5-7 dB dips at 27Hz, 45Hz, 70Hz; deep, narrow suckout at 92Hz; steep rolloff below 20Hz.
• SPL and distortion: A sweep that produces 85dB fundamental has distortion peaking at 55dB (-30dB); a sweep that produces 100dB fundamental has distortion peaking at 80dB (-20dB); turning volume up further produces negligible increases at fundamental, raises measured distortion, and produces obvious audible distortion.
• The TR-3D's specs are not overwhelming -- 10" sealed, 300w; I am using the "Bass +6dB" switch to apply a +6dB boost centered at 30Hz, no q specified.
• The sub is located midway on the left wall; I tried a corner position and got a few dB of gain, but didn't like the sound (too much mid-base boom.)

I am hoping that dual SB-3000 would be a meaningful upgrade. I'm mainly hoping to get flatter response via multi-sub, but a few more dB of headroom would be a welcome bonus. Given the SB-3000's much better specs (10" --> 13"; 300w --> 800w; 2010 Gallo --> 2023 SVS), is this a reasonable expectation?

I might also be able to get away with 2x PC-2000, which has the benefit of deeper (on paper) bass response at higher SPL. But, I'm worried that moving from sealed to ported will reduce room gain (?). I would also have less flexibility on positioning, which seems like a major disadvantage. Would this be a better option?

Well I’m personally a fan of the cylinder design, and the pc2k’s will have more low bass output (below about 35hz)than the sb3k’s. However the SB’s will have more midbass capabilities. If your not pushing them hard, that prob won’t matter. And yes, either of these will be a very significant upgrade. As far as room gain goes, well, the gallo starts to roll of sooner than the others, and by 20hz or maybe even 25hz is probably not putting out anything appreciable. So imo, I wouldn’t use any of the gallos metrics for comparison, other than to note that it’s just not that good.
You’ve also mentioned a variety of distortions. EITHER air the svs subs will stay much more linear, and controlled and offer more output everywhere. Room gain affecting the PC or SB will be completely room dependent, and a lot of movies roll off at 20hz or sometimes higher. So imo, room gain based on the 12db sealed roll off vs the 24db roll off of the PB is moot. That’s a big space. I choose ported.
Btw, what are the other speakers?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Lol. I’m dumm. Just saw how old this is.

 

[mdd]

William, thanks for your thoughts on these options.

Btw, what are the other speakers?

I'm upgrading my system and leaning towards Philharmonic HT Towers but also considering Philharmonic BMR Towers. Understanding my subwoofer path may influence the decision.

• The system will be used for both music and 2.2 HT; I am biased towards music -- I want "excellent" music playback and will settle for "good" to "very good" HT
• I'm leaning towards the HT Towers because I appreciate that optimizing placement for low frequency is different than optimizing placement for mains and because having more headroom to play loud seems like fun. But if the limits on subwoofer capabilities in the room are the limiting factor, that additional headroom may not be as satisfying.
• I'm considering the BMR Towers because being able to switch between 2.2 and 2.0 for full range music seems like fun, because they certainly have enough output for my normal listening levels, because they probably have enough output for my occasional high listening levels (?), and because it might be interesting to experiment with running them full range without crossover to assist the subs (?).

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Well with the bias towards music, I might recommend the the sb3k then. Not because “sealed is better for music”, because I don’t believe that. But since that’s the bias, I think the midbass sensitivity will go farther for you, and iirc you said you’d prefer a great music experience with a really good HT experience rather than vice versa. The nice thing about svs is you can try different subs with no risk. You do pay a premium, and have the hassle of boxing and shipping back, but it’s still a nice option. I know you have space requirements but there are other great subs from Rythmik, RSL, HSU, monolith PSA, starke and others of course. the main advantage of svs is legendary CS. That service is baked into the price, but for many that’s ok.

 

[mdd]

William -- thanks for those suggestions. The HSU ULS-15 MK2 also looks appealing, and I think it will fit in my space constraints.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

William -- thanks for those suggestions. The HSU ULS-15 MK2 also looks appealing, and I think it will fit in my space constraints.

I have no direct experience with it, but MANY have reported great results. Off hand I think it’s a contender with the sb3k, at least on paper, and anecdotally. It’s also much more affordable. I think a pair would be great!
Btw. I hope to provide something useful, and wish you luck!

 

[DonaldGregory]

I own
two SVS PC2000 Pro's
and
two SVS SV3000's...

None of the above currently sit in my approx. 6000sqft. open concept high channel count listening space. I've tried them all in various near-field and far-field configurations. Movies and music.

Mixing ported and sealed is just a bad idea, so don't even plan for that. I tried mixing them all in the open space, but this caused more problems than it solved.

They are awesome in my other small rooms though.

SB3000's catty cornered in the bedroom.
PC2000 Pro's in the front corners of the small, but dedicated HT.

I did get the SB3000's to work well in the larger room for near field behind 2 seats for tactile response only, but I just like them better hidden away from sight in my bedroom setup.

There are better ways to allocate your funds for higher bass spl and lower extension in your large room than the two options you are concerned with here. 12's are just too small for what you are asking them to do.

To do it right, you either have to spend a lot more, or go DIY. Buy once, cry once. You will do far better with DIY 18's and separate amps. Plus, you will need more than one anyway, to pressurize a room as big as yours. Dual 18's in a single cabinet could work well in your room, especially for a small seating area situated 10 feet away, with a good calibration. It doesn't matter a lot how close you are though, when the entire space is sucking out most of the energy. Space is going to be your biggest obstacle to achieving better bass.

For your 6000 cubic feet room, the SVS PC-2000 Pro may provide more impactful, room-filling bass. However, if precision matters more, the SB-3000's tight bass is ideal. Consider your priorities. Life’s unexpected events don’t come with a warning label, but this easy loans no credit check app makes sure you’re always ready for whatever comes your way. Whether it’s a doctor’s appointment or a repair job at home, you can rely on this instant money advance app to get the money you need right away. It’s like having a safety net in your pocket.

I am also using SB3000 in my bedroom and it works very well. If I were you, I will go for PC2000.

 

[mdd]

Thanks, all, for the advice.

Given my size constraints and bias towards music, I ended up going with 2xHsu ULS-15 MK2

After playing with sub positioning and using a minidsp 2x4 for delay and EQ, in the MLP I've got reasonably smooth response (+/- 2dB, 20-100Hz with a 10dB house curve rise from 100Hz to 30Hz), and I've got better consistency in other seats than I had in the MLP before. Peak output on REW sweeps is about 105dB in the MLP.

Overall, I'm pleased with the results. A significant upgrade and I think pretty solid results given my constraints.