Which is best: Onkyo TX-SR705/Rotel RMB-1085 combo, Onkyo TX-NR905 or NAD T775

[crazyivan168]

I've been wondering what the best combination would be to upgrade from a 6-year old Onkyo TX-S797 receiver. My requirements are conversion of composite & S-video to component video, analog video to HDMI (preferably in 480p at a minimum), use of component video circuitry at the same time as the HDMI circuitry (send component video signal from receiver to HDTV while using HDMI for lossless codecs), and decoding of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio.

My choices are the Onkyo TX-NR905, NAD T775 or T175 with a Rotel RMB-1085 or an Onkyo TX-SR705 with a Rotel RMB-1085. Each choice has its strengths and weaknesses.

The 905 is probably my preferred choice, as it has a Reon video processor, a Toroidal transformer and lossless codec decoding capability. Being the top of Onkyo's receiver line it should have better performance than the 805. The drawbacks is its size (i.e. it's deep, which makes it difficult to place in certain equipment racks and stands), the heat it generates (doesn't seem very efficient), and it's next to impossible to find in Canada.

The T775 is generally regarded as sounding better than most receivers, such as Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Marantz, Pioneer Elite, etc. The problems with the T775 and the T175 are operating idiosyncrasies and lack of features. Apparently, according to posts I've read one can not use the component video and HDMI circuitry at the same time. It's one or the other. The T775 and T175 don't decode Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. NAD assumes Blu-ray players will be able to send decoded soundtracks over HDMI, although it claims that the T775 and T175 may be upgradeable at a later date to include decoding capability (from past experience manufacturers have not seemed to really supported so called upgradeable products with hardware upgrades, so for this reason I don't put much faith in NAD's upgradeability claims). Another minor issue is that according to the T775 manual one has to set the front L/R speakers to large in order to get the full audio spectrum (20Hz to 20,000Hz) from the headphones when they are used. One final point. The T775 and T175 only convert the 480i/p analogue signal to HDMI, they don't upscale. This could be a problem with flat panels that don't handle 480i properly or can't handle 480i signals over HDMI.

The only additional issue with the T175 over the T775 is that in combination with the Rotel RMP-1085 it is significantly more expensive than the other options. The reason for this combo would be to minimize the cost of replacing an obsolete pre/pro. With a receiver once the pre/pro side becomes obsolete the whole receiver has to be replaced. Few if any multi-channel receivers can be used solely as a power amp, as was the case with higher-end stereo receivers.

As for the TX-SR705 and RMB-1085 combo. I don't need the better amp sections of the 805/875/905. The problem I'm having with this combo is the pre/pro section of the 705. The inference is that the Cirrus Logic D/A converters are inferior to the Burr-Brown D/A converters in the 805/875/905. In the review of the 805 in Audioholics the reviewer stated the 805 was inferior in sound quality to the Rotel (a RSX-1067 I believe). Considering the Rotel cost significantly more that is a fair statement. What wasn't stated was if the 805 was inferior due to its pre/pro section or its power amp section. If it was due to the pre/pro section than pairing a 705 with a RMB-1085 will be of little benefit over a straight 705. If the 805 was inferior due to the power amp section then will I get an improvement with the 705/1085 combo?

I considered the Denon AVR-3808CI and AVR-4308CI. There is nothing in the specifications of the 4308 that would warrant me getting it over the 3808. In reading a CNET UK article it was noted that the reviewer thought the 3808 was inferior to the 875 with two channel music. Also, the amp sections of the Denon seem inferior when compared to the 905. Not to mention the video processing section which is worse than the Reon in the 905. For this reason I've discounted Denon. As for Marantz Ultimate AV gave a glowing review to the sound of the SR8002. However the Marantz isn't a feasible alternative for me at this point. I'm not considering the 875 or Integra products because the price differences in Canada vs. the US are ridiculous over 30% considering the currencies are around par. The difference in the Canadian price vs the US price is more like 10-15%.

Any ideas on which option would serve my purposes best and provide high quality sound, that is, the option most closely approaching the sound quality of the Rotel RSX-1067?

 

[jochie00]

first, the 905 is not the top of the Onkyo but the 1000 is.

I believe you don't have a flat panel yet. If you buy a decent one these days, it will accept 480 via HDMI and will most probable upscale as good as the receiver. The upscaling is more meant for beamers.

besides, upper range DVD player with hdmi output will also do upscaling.
So I really don't see a reason to have such feature in your Receiver which is preliminary meant for Audio.
It will only work out if you have a VHS player, playstation 2 an Xbox, satreiver and you have to connect them all to your TV with only one cable. Then it is worth it because the different incoming signals will all be upconverted to your HDMI output.

If you want to go into seperates. stick to rotel/rotel or nad/nad. I believe that's the better option

 

[crazyivan168]

first, the 905 is not the top of the Onkyo but the 1000 is.

I believe you don't have a flat panel yet. If you buy a decent one these days, it will accept 480 via HDMI and will most probable upscale as good as the receiver. The upscaling is more meant for beamers.

besides, upper range DVD player with hdmi output will also do upscaling.
So I really don't see a reason to have such feature in your Receiver which is preliminary meant for Audio.
It will only work out if you have a VHS player, playstation 2 an Xbox, satreiver and you have to connect them all to your TV with only one cable. Then it is worth it because the different incoming signals will all be upconverted to your HDMI output.

If you want to go into seperates. stick to rotel/rotel or nad/nad. I believe that's the better option

I believe the 1000 is an older not and the pre/pro portion of it is outdated since Onkyo does not seem to be issuing upgrades for it (I could be wrong).

You are correct, I don't have a flat panel. I have a perfectly good RPTV that takes 1080i signals, so I require the use of component video. I don't intend on going to get a flat panel anytime soon (knock on wood). Although video processing in the receiver would be nice (Reon or Realta quality) it is not necessary. However, video switching is. I want one cable or in the case of component 1 set of cables to the TV. I want to minimize the number of wires between components and HDMI allows for that.

For me there are two problems with separates. First, they are more expensive than a receiver with similar functionality and power. I realize separates are better, but my resources to pay for them are limited. Secondly, none of the pre/pros that I consider within my range offer the same functionality as a receiver. The Rotel is only HDMI 1.1 and the NAD does not offer decoding of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. If I go the separate route with the 705/1085 it would be a temporary solution until I need to replace the TV, at which time I would replace the 705 with a higher quality pre/pro.

What I need to determine is whether the pre/pro section of the 705 is sufficient enough for there to be a sufficient sonic benefit from the Rotel RMB-1085 amp. If the pre/pro section of the 705 is not good enough should I hold out for the 905 or is the T775 significanlty better than the 905 sonically that I hope for a upgrade or a future Blu-Ray that is reasonably priced and decodes the lossless formats and sends them by HDMI to the receiver. I don't consider a $2,100 US MSRP for the new Denon Blu-Ray player to be reasonably priced when I was looking at a budget of $2,000 US for a receiver.

 

[ParkerAudio]

Is Onkyo still making the NR-1000? I don't see it in it's lineup anymore. The 905 has a toroidal transformer, HD radio and networking capability. Plus the Reon chip for upscaling. You will find that this chip is better than what you find in the TVs. It does a much nicer job upscaling crappy sources, like the cable box. Helps slightly on XBOX and PS3 games that aren't at 1080p.
I think the Rotel is a little better for music, but if you are looking for HT, the Onkyo will be the way to go.
As for getting hot, I am not aware of any issues with the 905.

 

[Seth=L]

The TX-NR1000 was a much larger receiver with more connectivity, but it's no longer in production and is very outdated (so much for the upgradeable receiver). The TX-NR905 has more advance processing modes for surround sound and more current features such as HDMI 1.3, Audessey Auto EQ, and HQV Reon scaler.

 

[jochie00]

I'd still go for a better sounding Amp which is not going to be improved in the next few years.
video processing will most likely be improved the comming years so you will be outdated as soon as the new faroudja chipset comes out which will be sticked into any DVD player.

 

[jochie00]

How about the Onkyo 5000! compared to the Onkyo 905
Wolfson DACs instead of BurrBrown.
13 digital inputs instead of 6 for the 905
gold plated speaker posts.
dual subwoofer out. (yes it makes a difference, at least on my setup)

I still believe you should buy your AV receiver based on the audio specs and not on the video specs because they will be quickly with new generation video source players.

 

[crazyivan168]

For the money required for the 5000 I would go with separates instead. Pre/pro in receivers and pre/pro separates are proving to be like computers a few years ago. It seems every six months or every year something new comes up that makes the pre/pro obsolete. So for anything over $2,500-$3,000 I would go with separates over a receiver. This way when the pre/pro becomes obsolete one doesn't have to get rid of a perfectly good amp, which would be the case with a receiver with a fine amp section.

It's also becoming apparent that digital amps are becoming better and gaining in popularity. I can see receiver manufacturers adopting this class of amp to take advantage of smaller packaging requirements, better efficiency, more power and less heat output. Imagine an Arcam Solo 5.1 with a powerhouse digital amp section instead of the 50 watts per channel. BTW where is the Blu-Ray version of this little beauty? Also notice how the better bookshelf speakers being produced are becoming less efficient, thus requiring more amp power and current?

 

[Seth=L]

FYI: The TX-NR5000 is the European version of the TX-NR1000. Also, the TX-NR5000/TX-NR1000 aren't much more powerful than the TX-NR905. The Onkyo TX-SR875's benchtest results came astonishingly close to the TX-NR1000's.

 

[ParkerAudio]

Just as the video will become outdated through the years, so will the audio. Witness everyone trying to replace receivers that have 7.1 DTS, Coaxial, and optical inputs, with 1.3a HDMI to convey lossless audio, DTS-HD, DTS-MA. I wouldn't buy separates now, they will finally catch up with the AV receivers this year offering these capabilites standard. If you want separates wait until the unit you want has the new audio specs.

As for upscaling, and wanting the video chip, it all depends what your sources are now.

 

[Kolia]

A note on the NAD. This will need to be confirmed for the T175 and T775.

I have T743 and from experience, when using the 5.1 analog input instead of the CD input, the speaker size settings seems to be defeated. Listening to stereo CD that way doesn't send any signal to the sub...

Conversion of analog video input to HDMi is great. But I'd leave the scalling to the display or DVD. These two will almost alway have the capability. Don't pay for it three times over!

 

[ParkerAudio]

FYI: The TX-NR5000 is the European version of the TX-NR1000. Also, the TX-NR5000/TX-NR1000 aren't much more powerful than the TX-NR905. The Onkyo TX-SR875's benchtest results came astonishingly close to the TX-NR1000's.

Seth, what about the Onkyo Tx-NR6000, that has to be better than a 905. Thats like 6 times better, and then some.

 

[crazyivan168]

A note on the NAD. This will need to be confirmed for the T175 and T775.

I have T743 and from experience, when using the 5.1 analog input instead of the CD input, the speaker size settings seems to be defeated. Listening to stereo CD that way doesn't send any signal to the sub...

Conversion of analog video input to HDMi is great. But I'd leave the scalling to the display or DVD. These two will almost alway have the capability. Don't pay for it three times over!

My worry with NAD was that it didn't convert 480i to 480p, as I have read that some flat panels aren't able to handle 480i over their HDMI connections. I don't know if newer flat panels have resolved this issue or not. I currently have an older CRT based HD-RPTV with only analog inputs. When I eventually get a new TV I want to only use one HDMI connection to the TV. Otherwise I don't need a fancy scaler in the receiver or pre/pro, just the conversion of composite & S-video to component, and analog video to HDMI.

My biggest issue with the NAD is whether it can accept and decode DVD-Audio/SACD signals through its HDMI inputs, and if NAD will really introduce an update or upgrade so that it can also decode Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD Master Audio. What's the point of paying for Audyssey and sophisticated speaker managment if one has to use the analog multi-channel inputs and pass the above-noted sophisticated features that arguably improve the sound. Otherwise for the same money as the T775 I could buy the Arcam AVR350 that does away with a lot of the fancier stuff and generally sounds better than all the rest mentioned in this thread.

 

[Kolia]

Isn't regular TV signal 480i? Any display with a tuner should do fine with that resolution I think?


If it's "HDMI everything" you want, you should forget about NAD. They are really slow on getting these newer things on their products.

 

[Seth=L]

Seth, what about the Onkyo Tx-NR6000, that has to be better than a 905. Thats like 6 times better, and then some.

are you mocking me?

 

[ParkerAudio]

are you mocking me?

No, quite the contrary, everyone seems to be wanting a bigger number, despite the continual discrediting of such a tactic. As always, sarcasm doesn't carry well over the internet. No disrespect intended.

 

[crazyivan168]

Isn't regular TV signal 480i? Any display with a tuner should do fine with that resolution I think?


If it's "HDMI everything" you want, you should forget about NAD. They are really slow on getting these newer things on their products.

The problem isn't NAD being slow to adopt HDMI. NAD has adopted HDMI 1.3a. What NAD hasn't done is take full advantage of HDMI 1.3, such as decoding of DVD-Audio, SACD, Dolby TrueHD, & DTS-HD Master Audio. I can live without NAD decoding DVD-Audio & SACD because they have proven to be fringe formats. At this time that can't be said for TrueHD & Master Audio. Time will tell.

It would not have taken much for NAD to have implemented the decoding technology for TrueHD and Master Audio codecs into the curren batch of receivers and the pre/pro, i.e. T775, T785, & T175. Instead, NAD simply said these products could be updated in the future when these codecs were more widely accepted. I don't buy manufacturers' claims of upgradablility. Look at the Onkyo TX-NR1000/5000 as a case in point. There are more examples of manufacturers failing to live up to such a claim and in various industries, but this is just one example. In addition, by not decoding these codecs in the receiver one isn't able to take advantage of the advanced RoomEQ and speaker management capabilities of the receiver.

Furthermore, most new Blu-ray players that aren't at the top end do not decode these lossless codecs. Instead they send the bitstream to a receiver capable of decoding such codecs. One has to spend top dollar for an higher end player that might decode these codecs. Is there currently a player that actually decodes Master Audio? I don't think so. Denon announced one, but it's almost the price of the T775. Most people spending $2,000-$2,500 on a receiver are probably not spending the same amount on a source component. Maybe people buying a separate pre/pro and amp will spend that much on a source component, but not people buying a receiver.

I would love to consider Arcam or Rotel, but Arcam doesn't believe in anything more than video switching (i.e. HDMI 1.0) while Rotel is still at 1.1 and might only move at a glacial pace to get to 1.3.

 

[Kolia]

I totally agree with you.

This is where companies like Emotiva attract my attention. Buy one Pre/Pro from them and all future Pre/Pro you upgrade to from them is 40% off...

Now, is the audio quality of an Emotiva the same as a NAD? I don't know...