Which amp for denon 5805

D

DaveMc

Audiophyte
I am ready to activate zone 2 and it seems (per manual) that one must purchase an amp to complete this task. My question is which amp? which brand? What size? For 2 speakers or more? ( I am trying to get the patioo speakers up but might add 2 more on down the line). The patio speakers are (2) 50 foot out and potentially another 2 at 100 or more feet out.
What do you advise?
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
I am ready to activate zone 2 and it seems (per manual) that one must purchase an amp to complete this task. My question is which amp? which brand? What size? For 2 speakers or more? ( I am trying to get the patioo speakers up but might add 2 more on down the line). The patio speakers are (2) 50 foot out and potentially another 2 at 100 or more feet out.
What do you advise?
Hi Dave,

Your Denon AVR-5805 (powerfull beast by the way) has 10 channels of power amplification (170 watts times 10).

So, if you are using a full 7.1-channel system setup in your main room, you still have an additional 3 power amps at your disposal for your additional Zone 2 (for two speakers), and even a third Zone (mono speaker).

And if your main system is a 5.1-channel configuration, you still have an additional 5 more power amps for an additional 3 more Zones.

But you can still use more amps (you don't have some spare ones?).

If you read your Denon manual (huge, almost the size of a phone book!), you will find out how to use the extra power amps on your 5805. Check in the section about Additional Zones (Zone 2, 3 and 4).

And if you really want to add some additional amp(s), because you are bi-amping your three front main speakers in a 7.1-channel system setup; just go with the same brand of your unique and biggest receiver in the world, Denon amps. Patio speakers are generally of small size, so you don't need big and powerful amp(s). A stereo amp rated at about 80 watts or so per channel will be plenty of power (anything between 50 and 100).

Hope that helps,

Bob
 
D

DaveMc

Audiophyte
Hi Dave,

Your Denon AVR-5805 (powerfull beast by the way) has 10 channels of power amplification (170 watts times 10).

So, if you are using a full 7.1-channel system setup in your main room, you still have an additional 3 power amps at your disposal for your additional Zone 2 (for two speakers), and even a third Zone (mono speaker).

And if your main system is a 5.1-channel configuration, you still have an additional 5 more power amps for an additional 3 more Zones.

But you can still use more amps (you don't have some spare ones?).

If you read your Denon manual (huge, almost the size of a phone book!), you will find out how to use the extra power amps on your 5805. Check in the section about Additional Zones (Zone 2, 3 and 4).

And if you really want to add some additional amp(s), because you are bi-amping your three front main speakers in a 7.1-channel system setup; just go with the same brand of your unique and biggest receiver in the world, Denon amps. Patio speakers are generally of small size, so you don't need big and powerful amp(s). A stereo amp rated at about 80 watts or so per channel will be plenty of power (anything between 50 and 100).

Hope that helps,

Bob
Thank you so much---I need to do more reading and understanding---you have noted that an external amp is not required if all amps within the 5808 are not being used---that those unused amps can be assigned to zone 2 (3 or 4)
Would that be 1 amp per speaker or 1 amp per pair?
So there are 10 sets of speaker terminals (5 left & 5 right) 1 for front l&r, 2 for Center speaker, 3 for surround A, 4 for surround B and finally 5 for surround back---with all of them in the main room one would have a 9.1 system---however---2 terminals would be free (#2 because it only takes one to power the center speaker and set 4L and 4R would not be used if a 7.1 system was activated in the main room soooooooooooooooooooo----3 amps (L2, L4, & R4) would be free for zone 2 (3 or 4) application---correct?

Thanks again for your time and expertise
Dave Mc

Thank you so much--
 
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Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
Thank you so much---I need to do more reading and understanding---you have noted that an external amp is not required if all amps within the 5808 are not being used---that those unused amps can be assigned to zone 2 (3 or 4)
Would that be 1 amp per speaker or 1 amp per pair?
So there are 10 sets of speaker terminals (5 left & 5 right) 1 for front l&r, 2 for Center speaker, 3 for surround A, 4 for surround B and finally 5 for surround back---with all of them in the main room one would have a 9.1 system---however---2 terminals would be free (#2 because it only takes one to power the center speaker and set 4L and 4R would not be used if a 7.1 system was activated in the main room soooooooooooooooooooo----3 amps (L2, L4, & R4) would be free for zone 2 (3 or 4) application---correct?

Thanks again for your time and expertise
Dave Mc

Thank you so much--
Hi Dave,

I am amazed! You possessed the bigger, the meaner A/V Receiver in the entire world from this planet; and you don't even know how to use the different Zones and what's available from it with all his ten-channel power amplifiers!
This has to be a first in the history of the Audio world!

No, you don't need an additional power amp, you already got ten of these with your 5805! And they are very powerful too, at 170 watts per channel.

Now, on your first post, you mentioned the 5805. Now on your last post you mentioned the 5808! There is no 5808. There is a 5308 though. So which one is it? The 5805 or the 5308?

You know as much as I know that one set of binding posts is for one speaker (red & black, or positive & negative). The 5805 has ten set of these, so ten speakers in this particular Receiver.
But the 5308 has seven power amps (150 watts x 7). BUT, it has eleven set of speaker binding posts.

One amp is a mono amp, so for only one speaker, duh.

Now, you're not even saying what your main system consist of (how many speakers?)!...

* My guess here, is that you are trying to get someone for a ride. If yes, there is a special term for that. And I don't have to tell you which term (word) it is.

** And if not, don't worry about what I'm saying; I will give you the best help for the best and simple solution to your unanswered question. Trust me.

*** I am waiting for your next post. And be careful of what you will say next, as it will finally determined where you're coming from, and what you'll get for it!
I caution you; I am a very patient, friendly and peaceful person; but don't get over the line, or you'll see another side of me that you'll wish to never have experienced in your entire life! Trust me...

For now, Cheers,

Bob
 
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Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
Slow down and take a deep breath, Bob. Some people aren't necessarily forum savvy and make simple mistakes. There's no need to go off the deep end on somebody's second post. Hopefully, my newly joined namesake will post up the details of the rest of his system and we can set to helping him make the best custom solution for his system needs.

Dave, suffice it to say that with Denon's flagship receiver you can hook up 10 speakers and assign them wherever you like. It would help to have some details on your existing setup so we know exactly what you need to complete your system.
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
you people:p:D I had to do a double take when I originaly read the thread, thought it was you Dave(mcc)
From this point on, you will have to look for the Ninja Cat avatar to be sure.:D

Until I gain Spartan status.
 
D

DaveMc

Audiophyte
Thanks for your tolerance
1. 5805--the big guy (not 5803-Sorry I mis typed)---bought from "Good Guy's" at their fire sale when took over by "Magnolia"---A "Best Buy" company---so 50% off msrp of 7K at the time--3 years ago.
2. I love good sound and video but am far short of being a whizz at set up
The "system" I have is not complete---I plan to build out a 7.1 in the main room (rm is 24' by 20' beam ceiling with 2 glasss walls & ceramic tile floor with 10 x 12 carpet, no drapes--minimal sound absorption)
3. 2 set's of sterio in the patio (50x80 feet)--two at the house projecting out and 2 (yet to be purchased) at the property line projecting in.

The system in use in the main room is
R2----------Front center----------Boston 525 V 8 ohm ast 005668 2- 5" & 1 tweeter
L2----------Not in use------------What would you recommend? (Assignment to what or 2nd sub in main room?)
L1 & R1-----Front L&R-------Boston Tower bi-ampable T-1030 8 ohm ac006364
L3 & R3-----Surround A L&R-------Temporary sony 8 ohm 15 to 30 watt in--Would you recommend a product for this location?
L4 & R4-----Surround B L&R-------Plan to assign to zone 2--patio--per your enlightenment!
L5 & R5-----Surround back L&R----Boston HD5 8 ohm DB 066421
Subwoofer--Klipsch Dual 10" Front & Rear RSW 10 Black 120 V, S/N RW10BK-02090259s/n
TV---------LG-LCD- 42" LP1D
Cassett tape player---Denon DRM 210
DVD player-----------Denon DVD 3910
L4 & R4--Patio-------(when "Assigned") Klipsch SAW01410695(6 could be an 8)---1--5" and a tweeter

Sorry if I gave you the impression that I was putting you on---I am just a techno dumb S... that enjoys buying hi end and then trying to figure out how to use it!
You appear to be the opposite--completely in to it---and understanding it--

Could you appraise my system and suggest products that should be replaced and products I am in the market for now?

Namely
1. The Surround back --should they be replaced?---with what?
2. Surround A what product would work best or well here?
3. Should patio speakers be up graded?
4. How could I power a second set of patio speakers?--I have only 1 amp left after assignment of L4 & R4 to the existing patio speakers.

Another question---a 9.1 system I am told (by a best buy salesman) is a waste of time as there are no tracks dedicated to the surround B speakers---what are your thoughts on this subject---why would a 9.1 system be a good idea?----a Bad idea?

Thanks again for your time---I am going to try to look up the sub I have as I cannot find the manual and there is no Model # on the unit
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
That sounds pretty good Dave.

Hi Dave,

Your post just above seems entirely genuine, so I will, with the help of other members, give you my best shot to your "now" several questions (since your first original post).

* Before I start, I am very relax as I also was before.
And as you noticed, I did not jump to my guns. I just wanted to prevent some previous sour experiences (happens at AVS).
** [By the way, it is a bit confusing with the other Dave, having the same user name as you! Just a strange coincidence.]

Now that I see that you are indeed a good guy, lets get into it. :)

1. Denon AVR-5805. Wow! Lucky you! (But you did misprint again, 5803! And before that, 5808. But that's OK now, we know it's the 5805.)

2. You said that you are planning to build a 7.1-channel setup system. OK, we'll go from there. That indeed leaves you with three extra amps; well for now, you'll see what I mean...

3. OK, two more Zones with each Stereo speakers (so, we are short of one mono amp). Seems like you will need an additional external stereo amp after all. If I was you, I'll look at places like Audiogon for a good one stereo amp at a very good price. Are you sure that you don't have already another stereo integrated amp or a stereo receiver by any chance?

4. Thank you for describing your system with speakers used.
* Your Denon AVR-5805 is a top notch A/V receiver of very high caliber.
It will deserve the very best (or very good anyway) speakers all around.
Your main Zone will be a 7.1-channel setup.
** First I suggest a 7.2-channel setup, so one more subwoofer to balance things well in your large room.

5. Forgive me as I do, about the small explanation from the previous post. It should be by now well behind us. :)

6. I'm not an appraiser, but I'll try to put you on the right path.

7. * Important question here: Are you into Music as well as into Movies.
Because if you are, you can make use of side surround A & B in your main room. So then, your main room will become sort of a 9.2-channel (if you did had another sub) system configuration. And if so, that will mean that you do need two additional stereo amplifiers for the two other Zones (Patio & Property line). Are you following me? Because your Main System will now be using a total of nine power amps from your 5805. And they can run all together too! (The three main fronts, the two side {A, movies} 90 degree surrounds, the two side {B, music} 135 degree surrounds and the two rear back {EX, ES & 7.1} 160 degree surrounds. And of course the two subwoofers. Fey!)
** Or would you like to bi-amp your three front mains instead???
[The Best Buy salesman is wrong. The SACDs and DVD-Audios multichannel recordings are better used with the surrounds B (135 degree behind you, from the 0 degree front center channel), that's why it is so nice to have a 9.1 or 9.2-channel system setup from Denon receivers.]
*** [[And do you know, that now, you can have a 13.3-channel configuration, if you add the extra "two front side" surrounds, the "two front height" surrounds and a third subwoofer? And this without counting the two extra "front presence" speakers from Yamaha, and the four possible "top height" speakers!!! And you can also add another two more subwoofers!!! If you go all the way, you'll end up with a 19.5-channel surround speaker system configuration!!! I am personally working on such a system! ;) :rolleyes: ]]

8. Now, speakers time. ;)
* First thing first: If you do need to purchase two additional stereo amps (in case you don't have any spare ones at your house), and that you do need to change some speakers for a more balance sound in your Main Zone; what will be your approximate budget? And remember too, that if you need those two additional stereo amps, that you can get these for quite cheap at a place like Audiogon (say about $400 at most for two stereo amps). And for the two additional Zones, 50 watts to 100 watts per channel will do.

9. Speaker's suite.
* I am looking at this very moment at your Boston Acoustics main speakers and at your surround speakers, trying to figure out what will be best in your Main system (Zone 2 & 3 will come eventually and will be very easy to figure out, trust me). And we'll get to amp assignment later on, it's not a priority for now.

a) Your Boston Acoustics center channel, 525 V, with it's two small 5" woofers is inadequate in my book. A three-way center channel will be much better (two 6.5" woofs, a 3" mid and a 1" tweet).
b) Your Boston Acoustics front mains, T-1030 (bi-ampable), I cannot find in my speaker's bible, same as your center 525 V.
* I need you to give me the year they were made (the 525 V and the T-1030).
c) Your temporary Sony side surrounds A, they'll have to go for sure (out of there). They could become perhaps your stereo pair for the Patio.
d) Your unused side surrounds B, will have to be on hold for now, as we are trying to determine what you'll do first in the main system.
e) Your Boston Acoustics rear surrounds, HD5, are also not included in my speaker's bible. So I'll also need the year they were released.
f) Your two Klipsch subwoofers, the RSW-10d and the RW-10d, which are last year models, are not the the type of subs you want to use with a high end system. But they can do, because at least, you have two of them.

10. Your TV (LG 42" Lcd) is not the appropriate TV either. You want at least a 60" Plasma or a front projector. And that LG 42" is perhaps good for another small room or even the patio.

11. * Your Denon DMR-210 cassette player (you still use these), is OK.
* Your Denon DVD-3910 DVD Universal player is perfectly adequate.
* No Blu-Ray player??? About an Oppo BDP-83 Blu-Ray Universal player?
* Your Klipsch set of speakers, Model unknown, I cannot say because I don't know the model.

12. So, before I can go any further, I will need from you better information on your speakers, what you intend to do, now that I suggest some new stuff to you, and also answer my few questions from this post. Please do answer all my questions, and read that post carefully, as it took me more than two hours to come up with. So, it is a very well tought out post for your own personal benefice. ;)

->>> Please, do provide me with more tools and also with a certain budget if you are willing to upgrade few speakers in your system. I will also like to know if you want to stay with a mix of Boston Acoustics and klipsch speakers in your Main system. Help me out with these matters, and I will help you out with my knowledge for your own budget, room and desires, to obtain the perfect symmetry in your three Zones. :)
And do take your time to think over it very carefully, and also come up with the right model numbers of your speakers and their year of releases. After all, it's your system, your main room, your two other zones, your house, your money, your main idea, and your life.
I'm just the middle man, that give you my personal suggestions according to your plan. My job is Audio architecture. And my clients come from all aspect of life with various personal needs and financial resources.

Regards,

Bob
 
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