When You go to the Emergency Room, How Long do You Wait?

[lsiberian]

Sheep,
You are correct but he never said anything about operating the tools. He only mentioned "handling saw blades or router bits". Go back to school.

I hope your family member gets well soon and I'm glad that they are getting the care that they need.


lsiberian,
Wearing gloves while handling blades/bits is good practice and I hope that you don't wear gloves or loose fitting clothing while operating (most) power tools. A nick or minor cut could become missing a finger or worse if you're not careful. Which I'm sure you are.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programing.

In all reality Canadian schools are probably better. But we let the dumb kids graduate with the smart ones here.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Sheep,
You are correct but he never said anything about operating the tools. He only mentioned "handling saw blades or router bits". Go back to school.

I hope your family member gets well soon and I'm glad that they are getting the care that they need.


lsiberian,
Wearing gloves while handling blades/bits is good practice and I hope that you don't wear gloves or loose fitting clothing while operating (most) power tools. A nick or minor cut could become missing a finger or worse if you're not careful. Which I'm sure you are.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programing.

Thanks for pointing that out. I mis-red (get it?) his post as well.

 

[lsiberian]

Thanks for pointing that out. I mis-red (get it?) his post as well.

Yeah I didn't get the only 100 on our shop safety test for nothing.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Yeah I didn't get the only 100 on our shop safety test for nothing.

I am so smart! S-M-R-T!

 

[lsiberian]

I am so smart! S-M-R-T!

Speaking of safety somebody put a paper tray in our office toaster.

I only got 2 100's in school one for safety the other for sex ed.

I'm too lazy to be smart like Wmax.

 

[JerryLove]

You really think that $30,000 on a toilet seat goes to a toilet seat?

Of course it does. It's standard operating procedure.

When a request for bids is put in, the only price looked at is the price of the aircraft... but with the sale comes a maintenance agreement. Since that's not considered in the bidding process, companies like Lockeed can simply charge exorbitant amounts for parts and labor... and the do.

Something similar happened with TriCare. The bids are taken based on "in area" costs. That is to say, what someone in the vicinity of a military base should expect. What some companies do then is bid very low for that, but then declare everywhere "off base", allowing them to charge whatever they want. I think this year is the first year the military factored that in.

Console games classically do something similar: under-pricing the console to make the money back on peripherals and games.

 

[lsiberian]

Of course it does. It's standard operating procedure.

When a request for bids is put in, the only price looked at is the price of the aircraft... but with the sale comes a maintenance agreement. Since that's not considered in the bidding process, companies like Lockeed can simply charge exorbitant amounts for parts and labor... and the do.

Something similar happened with TriCare. The bids are taken based on "in area" costs. That is to say, what someone in the vicinity of a military base should expect. What some companies do then is bid very low for that, but then declare everywhere "off base", allowing them to charge whatever they want. I think this year is the first year the military factored that in.

Console games classically do something similar: under-pricing the console to make the money back on peripherals and games.

I think you are starting to get the point, but not all those funds go to the toilets. Military appropriations are often used to hide black projects. I won't go in anymore detail than that.

 

[JerryLove]

I think you are starting to get the point, but not all those funds go to the toilets. Military appropriations are often used to hide black projects. I won't go in anymore detail than that.

Of course they are. You have to bill it somewhere. "Secret Project X" just seems too suspicious (though honestly, I suspect most of what they do bill it under would stick out like a sore thumb were it not for the practices I mentioned)

Though in the toilet seat case, it seems to indeed be contractor profiteering.

 

[lsiberian]

Of course they are. You have to bill it somewhere. "Secret Project X" just seems too suspicious (though honestly, I suspect most of what they do bill it under would stick out like a sore thumb were it not for the practices I mentioned)

Though in the toilet seat case, it seems to indeed be contractor profiteering.

Don't get me wrong the contractors waste a lot of money.

 

[highfigh]

I noticed that too. Sorry Isiberian, but he's right. Gloves belong nowhere near machinery where there's any chance that they might get caught. Better to slash a finger open, or even lose it, than to have your whole hand mangled.

It's standard industry safety practice (at least it's my experience) - bare hands around spinning machinery.

I agree and originally wanted to respond to the gloves around moving cutters issue, but I had to leave before I got the chance. If I'm wearing gloves, my hands won't be going close enough to be grabbed. Even if it's cold, I won't wear gloves and if it's too cold to do the work without gloves, I way until it's not. If I'm taking the cutter to the workpiece, it's different but I make sure no loose clothing can be caught up in anything that's spinning. It only takes a large splinter to catch on a sleeve to pull an arm into a planer or a nick by a blade to mangle a hand.

Cutting my hand when handling a loose blade or router bit doesn't bother me but I won't put my hands close enough to be grabbed when I wear gloves and if I'm wearing a coat or sweatshirt, I keep my arms clear.

 

[NicolasKL]

Unregulated but mandated?

People pick on the Government for ridiculous cost overruns: but when I look at the biggest examples do you know what I see charing said costs? Private subcontractors.

The B1 (designed and built by Lockeed) and it's $30,000 toilet seat (also Lockeed) would be one example: the hundreds of billions to Haliburton and Bektel another.

And we wouldn't have to stop spending on anything. Government run programs are universally cheaper than US healthcare, the most expensive on the planet (Germany comes to mind with a per-capita cost half ours).

Covering the <10% of uninsured, or even the 25% of under insured is easily paid for with the 50% reduction in per-person insurance costs of a properly run healthcare system.

Lockheed actually got railroaded on the whole toilet seat thing. It wasn't 30,000 each, it was ~50 of them @ ~600, and it wasn't a toilet seat, it was a shroud that covered the entire toilet. And the reason it cost what it did was because the part hadn't been manufactured in decades and they had to make new molds.

 

[highfigh]

I think you are starting to get the point, but not all those funds go to the toilets. Military appropriations are often used to hide black projects. I won't go in anymore detail than that.

You don't need to go into more detail. I doubt you remember but Senator William Proxmire had a 'Golden Fleece' Award that he would give out in the late '60s and early '70s to the contract or contractor that "wasted" the most money on things like $300 hammers, $2000 ladders, etc. He couldn't have been privvy to what the money was actually being spent on, or he would have kept his mouth shut but that didn't stop half of the country from getting all bunched up over it. From a military and intelligence standpoint, there are many things the general public doesn't need to know and more that should be kept from the media, who can't seem to keep their effin' mouths shut. People have a hard enough time not taking money for government secrets as it is, as evidenced by the latest rocket surgeon, who thought he was selling secrets to the Iraelis. He was contacted and agreed to sell to the first ones who asked if he was interested. What a schmuck!

 

[mtrycrafts]

Just to be clear, it isn't true your medical care didn't cost a dime because it does.

My last trip to the ER at MGH here in Boston, MA took 8 hours and I was there for a potential appendicitis. This includes my brother pulling strings so I could see someone quickly. It turned out I didn't have appendicitis and I received some potassium pills and went home. ....

You are lucky as it could have been. And people do die from them.
Some things you just don't mess with, I guess.

 

[JerryLove]

He couldn't have been privvy to what the money was actually being spent on, or he would have kept his mouth shut but that didn't stop half of the country from getting all bunched up over it.

Why would a senator not know what money was going to?

rom a military and intelligence standpoint, there are many things the general public doesn't need to know and more that should be kept from the media, who can't seem to keep their effin' mouths shut.

Black projects still need oversight, and evaluation, and fiscal responsibility. Rubber-stamping something because "it's secret" is silly.

 

[Davemcc]

I live just outside of Vancouver, BC, Canada.

I needed to follow up with a specialist. The ER doctor got me an appointment that was 3 days after my ER visit. I was in and out of the specialist's office in 2.5 hours.

The problems I have with health care may simply be an Ontario issue, since health care is a provincial jurisdiction and highly subject to political input. I do see a great disparity between health care here and in B.C. I am of the dedicated opinion that we are governed by a team of incompetents.

Three days to see a specialist. I wish. My family doctor got me the earliest specialist appointment at only eight months. I reduced that to three weeks by going through the ER. In one sense, I am lucky to have a family doctor. A great many people locally do not have a family doctor and have to rely exclusively on clinics for health care.

Regarding cancer treatment, a front page story of a local youth told of his attempts to get treated for Leukemia for two years. After failing to get the proper treatment here or in London, he went to an American hospital, where he was immediately treated with intensive chemo for a week. He was critically ill and apparently would have died within the week. To repeat, that was a front page story in our local paper.

One lesson that may be learned from the disparity between here and B.C. is to not let health care become a political issue and don't let politicians determine your health care needs and funding.

 

[Nemo128]

So I had to wait about 2.5 hours from the time I arrived at the ER to the time that I saw the doctor. After I saw the doc, I needed some follow up. All told, I was at the hospital for about 4 hours.

I needed to follow up with a specialist. The ER doctor got me an appointment that was 3 days after my ER visit. I was in and out of the specialist's office in 2.5 hours.

Last time I was in the hospital, it was for an ingrown toenail infection.

I spent 2 hours waiting for triage, another 2 hours waiting to get into the ER, another 2 hours sitting on a chair in the hallway of the ER cuz they had no beds, and 5 mins for a doctor to walk up to me, look at my toe, write a referral to their on-call foot doctor who was 15 miles away, and tell me to go see him.

This visit was followed by the foot doctor visit which cost me $400 in cash up front or they wouldn't do anything. The infection wouldn't go away on its own and I didn't have my own anesthesia to do it myself, cuz I damn sure would have chopped out the toenail myself if I did. It was infected all the way to the root, so no anesthesia would have made it very painful.

I was greated by a pleasant $1200 bill in the mail a couple weeks later. Guess what was on the bill? A BED CHARGE. Um, I sat on a f*cking chair in the f*cking hallway!!! I got charged, yes, $1200 to wait around for 6 hours and be handed a piece of paper.

FYI, this was Meadowlands Medical Center in Secaucus NJ, supposedly a good hospital in NJ. This happened to me previously, and I went to Christ Hospital in Jersey City, supposedly a very bad hospital, where I was taken, cared for, and released in about 3 hours. SAME BILL AMOUNT and they actually took care of me! The doctor was awesome, I still remember his name and he sliced me up good and quick and gave me a script for Vicodin which I was advised to, and I quote, "Save one for when the bill comes." I happily paid that one.

IT GETS BETTER! The time it was done at Christ Hospital, my toe healed like new completely. Last time, when that other doctor I got the referral to did it, my toe STILL hasn't healed like normal and that was almost 3 years ago! It looks ugly and grows weird.

Yes, this is your wonderful medical system in action. I guess in areas where the population density is 1 person and 4 cows every square mile, they don't have problems like this.

Oh WAIT, I have more! I now have Blue Cross for Fed medical. I called up to have a fertility test done cuz I was told by a doctor years ago to do it annually after an infection caused a low sperm count. I called up a couple places and they all said "You need a prescription to come in for that." Ok, so I need to pay one doctor to tell another doctor that they can perform a test on me that a 3rd doctor years ago ALREADY SAID I should have done yearly? Of course, my insurance will get charged for the visit and I'll have to pay my co-pay, but are they serious? I need a prescription?!?!?

I asked a Canadian Army Captain I work with if I would go through that hassle up there. He said "No, you'd go to a doctor and tell them your history and they would take care of it." I also asked about my soon-to-be-ex-fiance's cancer gene test, which her insurance had to pre-approve before her doctor would be allowed to do it and get paid. She had to get a doctor to write to the insurance company saying basically every female on her mother's side of the family, her mother included, has gotten breast cancer, and the insurance STILL took 3 months to "approve" it and let the doctor do the test. he told me "If she told them about her family history at the doctor's office, that would have been enough. The insurance would cover it because the doctor wants it done." Wait, you mean they put the lives of people before their own wallets in Canada? What a concept!!!

Go ahead (insert whatever the hell political buzzword you like today because it's all the same rhetoric spewed by different loudmouth idiots), bash me or the situation or other countries all you want. That's basically what it comes down to. For every "advance" that people talk about being possible only because of our system, there are a few hundred doctors with multi-million dollor homes and CL63 AMGs, a dozen insurance company executives with private jets, and thousands of people dying from easily treatable ailments.

Yeah yeah, the doctors deserve their pay, the execs earn their salaries, blah blah blah blah BLAH... people are dying that don't have to, either you care about that or you don't. Unfortunately, many people only care about any system screwing individuals when one of those individuals happens to be themselves. I have plenty more to say, but I don't want to totally jack the thread.

 

[Chu Gai]

Probably could've booked a vacation to India and gone to one of their hospitals and done it for cheaper and better while having some good eats.

 

[Matt34]

Last time I was in the hospital, it was for an ingrown toenail infection.

I spent 2 hours waiting for triage, another 2 hours waiting to get into the ER, another 2 hours sitting on a chair in the hallway of the ER cuz they had no beds, and 5 mins for a doctor to walk up to me, look at my toe, write a referral to their on-call foot doctor who was 15 miles away, and tell me to go see him.

This visit was followed by the foot doctor visit which cost me $400 in cash up front or they wouldn't do anything. The infection wouldn't go away on its own and I didn't have my own anesthesia to do it myself, cuz I damn sure would have chopped out the toenail myself if I did. It was infected all the way to the root, so no anesthesia would have made it very painful.

I was greated by a pleasant $1200 bill in the mail a couple weeks later. Guess what was on the bill? A BED CHARGE. Um, I sat on a f*cking chair in the f*cking hallway!!! I got charged, yes, $1200 to wait around for 6 hours and be handed a piece of paper.

FYI, this was Meadowlands Medical Center in Secaucus NJ, supposedly a good hospital in NJ. This happened to me previously, and I went to Christ Hospital in Jersey City, supposedly a very bad hospital, where I was taken, cared for, and released in about 3 hours. SAME BILL AMOUNT and they actually took care of me! The doctor was awesome, I still remember his name and he sliced me up good and quick and gave me a script for Vicodin which I was advised to, and I quote, "Save one for when the bill comes." I happily paid that one.

IT GETS BETTER! The time it was done at Christ Hospital, my toe healed like new completely. Last time, when that other doctor I got the referral to did it, my toe STILL hasn't healed like normal and that was almost 3 years ago! It looks ugly and grows weird.

Yes, this is your wonderful medical system in action. I guess in areas where the population density is 1 person and 4 cows every square mile, they don't have problems like this.

Oh WAIT, I have more! I now have Blue Cross for Fed medical. I called up to have a fertility test done cuz I was told by a doctor years ago to do it annually after an infection caused a low sperm count. I called up a couple places and they all said "You need a prescription to come in for that." Ok, so I need to pay one doctor to tell another doctor that they can perform a test on me that a 3rd doctor years ago ALREADY SAID I should have done yearly? Of course, my insurance will get charged for the visit and I'll have to pay my co-pay, but are they serious? I need a prescription?!?!?

I asked a Canadian Army Captain I work with if I would go through that hassle up there. He said "No, you'd go to a doctor and tell them your history and they would take care of it." I also asked about my soon-to-be-ex-fiance's cancer gene test, which her insurance had to pre-approve before her doctor would be allowed to do it and get paid. She had to get a doctor to write to the insurance company saying basically every female on her mother's side of the family, her mother included, has gotten breast cancer, and the insurance STILL took 3 months to "approve" it and let the doctor do the test. he told me "If she told them about her family history at the doctor's office, that would have been enough. The insurance would cover it because the doctor wants it done." Wait, you mean they put the lives of people before their own wallets in Canada? What a concept!!!

Go ahead (insert whatever the hell political buzzword you like today because it's all the same rhetoric spewed by different loudmouth idiots), bash me or the situation or other countries all you want. That's basically what it comes down to. For every "advance" that people talk about being possible only because of our system, there are a few hundred doctors with multi-million dollor homes and CL63 AMGs, a dozen insurance company executives with private jets, and thousands of people dying from easily treatable ailments.

Yeah yeah, the doctors deserve their pay, the execs earn their salaries, blah blah blah blah BLAH... people are dying that don't have to, either you care about that or you don't. Unfortunately, many people only care about any system screwing individuals when one of those individuals happens to be themselves. I have plenty more to say, but I don't want to totally jack the thread.

Nemo,

I think most people are for Health Care Reform and it's hard to deny that we desperately need it...but when you have a government that wants to rush a staggering 1500+ page bill that they have admittingly not read or fully understand the costs and how WE are going to pay for it. There is going to be resistance to it.

 

[Nemo128]

Probably could've booked a vacation to India and gone to one of their hospitals and done it for cheaper and better while having some good eats.

Medical care in Columbia, Argentina, and Cuba come to mind. With my money, I could fly to one of those countries, get better care, be better treated, have a small vacation, and come back happy and healthy for less money than it costs me here to just be seen and diagnosed. I speak the truth, I know 3 people that have done this in the past year alone with those 3 particular countries!

 

[Nemo128]

Nemo,

I think most people are for Health Care Reform and it's hard to deny that we desperately need it...but when you have a government that wants to rush a staggering 1500+ page bill that they have admittingly not read or fully understand the costs and how WE are going to pay for it. There is going to be resistance to it.

I totally agree with you. If I was one of these elected representatives, I'd be spending every waking moment I have drafting up my own proposal to this problem, rather than simply sliming the proposals of others. Solutions are never found through negative conjecture. I don't know why, with so many visibly seperate "cliques" in the two chambers of Congress, we only have one all-encompassing proposal and one large vocal outcry. There should be a handful of comprehensive proposals for use in a national debate and selection process.

I'm sorry but I despise few things more than an outcry against something without an alternative. I'm a firm believer in "If you think you have a better idea, I'm more than ready and willing to listen." Screw what Congress will listen to, we the people should. If whoever has a bill to propose, buy some web space and air time, advertise it, and let the people take the fight to their reps themselves. No one can honestly say that's been done.

Money is being blown by everyone, poltical party be damned, on smear campaigns and denial of responsibility. Give me my rep's $160k/year salary and their expense account, I won't sleep until I come up with something, because some alternative is better than empty complaining. Give me a reliable fuel efficient car and I'd tour the state knocking on every single door and meeting with every single family to figure out what are all the problems and how to best serve every household, not just the few or the majority. We all know these types of things can be done, they just aren't done.