When You go to the Emergency Room, How Long do You Wait?

[FirstReflection]

I live just outside of Vancouver, BC, Canada. I recently had to visit a local Emergency Room. I won't get into all the details, but it wasn't life-threatening, so I wasn't a "rush" patient or anything. Just needed to see a doctor.

So I had to wait about 2.5 hours from the time I arrived at the ER to the time that I saw the doctor. After I saw the doc, I needed some follow up. All told, I was at the hospital for about 4 hours.

I needed to follow up with a specialist. The ER doctor got me an appointment that was 3 days after my ER visit. I was in and out of the specialist's office in 2.5 hours.

Now, I've been seeing Canada's health care system used as a "boogeyman" in the USA's health care reform debate. The people who are against a Public Option seem to be trying to use Canada's Universal Health care as an example of how bad socialized medicine can be.

I don't understand this.

I thought my wait times were downright short. I was amazed that I got in to see a specialist so quickly. I thought I received excellent quality care. And I didn't have to pay a dime out of pocket. Walked into hospital - showed them my CareCard. Saw a doctor, had blood work and lab work done, saw a specialist - no bills, no fees, nothing to pay, no insurance company to deal with. I got a prescription. I had to pay for the medication at the pharmacy. But I have extended medical coverage from my work that reimburses me for prescription medication - not everyone has that in Canada, to be clear.

That is a "nightmare"? That is how "bad" Universal Health care can be?

But maybe I have it wrong. I've never been to a hospital in the USA. Maybe I don't know what I'm missing.

So I am here to ask. When you go to the ER in the USA, how long do you have to wait? I keep hearing about how bad the wait times are in Canada. I'm used to waiting several hours. Is it really that much quicker in the USA?

I really do not have experience with any other health care system. I don't even have that much experience with my own here in Canada! But if I were ever asked on a survey or something, I would say that I'm very happy with our system and I didn't experience anything myself that would make me think it could possibly be held up as "how bad things can get" or be used as something to scare people away from socialized care.

My aunt contracted breast cancer. She also suffered a stroke part-way into her care. Throughout the entire process, our family never had to pay anything out of pocket. She was in for hospital stays, in to see specialists. She's cancer free now. She is recovering from her stroke. It was a long process - it's still on-going. It was painful and tiring and sad. But I don't think anyone in our family ever thought she received less than excellent health care. And we never had to pay a thing and we never had to deal with anyone about any bills or insurance or anything.

So I am honestly just ignorant of how things really are in the USA. Perhaps we really are waiting longer up here in Canada. Perhaps dealing with insurance isn't bad at all. Maybe health care costs to the patients and their families really aren't bad at all. I honestly do not know because I've not experienced it.

Here in Canada, we sort of hear about the USA's health care system as a "boogeyman" and a reason to fear private health care So it certainly goes both ways. We seem to point across the border and both proclaim - "look how much worse it could be!"

But I'd like to know the real story.

So if you could help me out and let me know what the experience is actually like in the USA, I'd really appreciate it!

 

[rnatalli]

Just to be clear, it isn't true your medical care didn't cost a dime because it does.

My last trip to the ER at MGH here in Boston, MA took 8 hours and I was there for a potential appendicitis. This includes my brother pulling strings so I could see someone quickly. It turned out I didn't have appendicitis and I received some potassium pills and went home. $75 out-of-pocket for something I could have gotten from a couple of bananas. I was told by a doctor to go to the ER; I guess it's better to be safe than sorry.

I don't know of any country that has adopted our model of healthcare. It costs the most and isn't the best. Classic example that money doesn't always buy quality. The U.S. system is the Bose of healthcare.

 

[highfigh]

I narfed my left index finger using my new tongue & groove router bit and since the hospital was close, I went there one Sunday after noon. The ER was full of people with headaches and other very minor problems. My finger wasn't really that bad but it was bleeding pretty well. They finally got to me (took about 45 minutes), looked at it and sent me to have it X-rayed to see if it nicked the bone because if it had, it would be treated as an open fracture. Once they found that it hadn't, they put me in a room and had someone come in to see if they could save the flap of skin. The first person didn't know, so they got someone else who did and she explained that it didn't have any of the fat layer, so it couldn't be saved. She opened a package with what looked like cuticle scissors, snipped it off and instructed the other person how to finish it. They left and finally returned with a prescription for antibiotics (I expected this) & Vicodin (I didn't expect this at all) and an appointment with a hand specialist at 8:00 the next morning. The "non-stick pad" they put on it was anything but that and the damaged flesh grew into the holes.

Oh, I forgot- the first thing that happened when I got into the treatment room was some fat hump walking in with a form that stated that I wouldn't sue the hospital if something were to go wrong.

Knowing what I know now, I could have gone to the clinic in the opposite direction and it not only wouldn't have taken 5 hours, it wouldn't have cost as much. Snipping off the small flap of skin was listed as "Outpatient surgery" and showed $585.00 as the cost. Aside from numbing it and shooting the X-Ray, I could have put some kind of ointment/bandage on it and snipped off the skin.

 

[lsiberian]

I narfed my left index finger using my new tongue & groove router bit and since the hospital was close, I went there one Sunday after noon. The ER was full of people with headaches and other very minor problems. My finger wasn't really that bad but it was bleeding pretty well. They finally got to me (took about 45 minutes), looked at it and sent me to have it X-rayed to see if it nicked the bone because if it had, it would be treated as an open fracture. Once they found that it hadn't, they put me in a room and had someone come in to see if they could save the flap of skin. The first person didn't know, so they got someone else who did and she explained that it didn't have any of the fat layer, so it couldn't be saved. She opened a package with what looked like cuticle scissors, snipped it off and instructed the other person how to finish it. They left and finally returned with a prescription for antibiotics (I expected this) & Vicodin (I didn't expect this at all) and an appointment with a hand specialist at 8:00 the next morning. The "non-stick pad" they put on it was anything but that and the damaged flesh grew into the holes.

Oh, I forgot- the first thing that happened when I got into the treatment room was some fat hump walking in with a form that stated that I wouldn't sue the hospital if something were to go wrong.

Knowing what I know now, I could have gone to the clinic in the opposite direction and it not only wouldn't have taken 5 hours, it wouldn't have cost as much. Snipping off the small flap of skin was listed as "Outpatient surgery" and showed $585.00 as the cost. Aside from numbing it and shooting the X-Ray, I could have put some kind of ointment/bandage on it and snipped off the skin.

I now always wear gloves when handling saw blades or router bits. It cost only 20 bucks for good gloves and they have saved me from numerous cuts.

I notice you have a knack for getting cut and would suggest some good gloves to prevent it.

On ER care. It pretty much stinks in our country unless you have a real emergency(life or death)

We need a better system and a public option won't solve the problem.

 

[MinusTheBear]

The last time I was involved in Canada's health care system was when I took my brother to the emergency, it took about 15-20 mins to see a doc and he was diagnosed and released in a hour; not to shaby if I must say.

No matter what type of system there will be some people with bad experiences. Davemcc is one example which has shared his problems with health care. However, last week the American media was all over their health system for denying a baby coverage because he was deemed to fat....a baby, that is just wrong! The insurance company changed their policy after the media got involved...overall I am privileged to live in a country with socialized medicine based on my own experiences with the system.

 

[BWG707]

At a E -room in CA last year I waited over 8hrs. to see a Dr. I was passing a kidney stone, extremely painful and uncomfortable, and just needed pain meds. I have passed several stones in the past so I knew what was going on. As soon as the Dr saw me he immediately gave me the usual morphine injection. This was totally ridiculous the nurses saw my records with my history of kidney stones and saw the pain that I was in. About 6mo. earlier I was at the same E-room for kidney stones and they immediately took me to a bed and I saw a Dr shortly after. They pushed me to the front of the line. I guess it all depends who the "gatekeeper" sitting behind the front desk is. What a shame!

 

[rnatalli]

I love dentistry in this country. My wife tells her dentist that she isn't sure she's pregnant, but they insist on X-Rays. My wife refused and good thing as she actually is pregnant and her doctor said no way to X-Rays. I mean, I don't think they even X-Ray drug smugglers if there's indication of pregnancy.

Since we visit Italy every year or so anyways, we plan to visit the dentist while visiting. The Italians are ahead of us in dentistry and only now I've started to see some of the same, modern Italian-made machines here in the U.S.

 

[itschris]

Anywhere from 2 minutes to 2 hours depending on the severity. I gashed my face open and had a 4 inch cut by my jaw that was squirting blood 3 feet. They got me right in.

The problem with the ER is that everyone who doesn't have insurance uses it as their primary care doctor. I can't stand to go there and see a waiting room where 50% of the people are either crying, groaning, or subdued due to the pain or ailment and the other half are carrying on laughing, talking on cell phones, going in and out to smoke,etc.

I think the latter half ought to be triaged and sent to a local clinic somewhere, not the ER.

 

[rnatalli]

I think the latter half ought to be triaged and sent to a local clinic somewhere, not the ER.

I think part of the problem is so many of the local hospitals were consolidated into the now super hospitals we find probably to save costs. I remember 3 hospitals close by when I was a kid compared to 1 now.

 

[JerryLove]

I think part of the problem is so many of the local hospitals were consolidated into the now super hospitals we find probably to save costs. I remember 3 hospitals close by when I was a kid compared to 1 now.

Much like how the bank consolidations cut costs I'm sure.

Cut up my hand pretty bad (fixing it required a scalpel). I was about an 45min in the waiting room and another 30 before I got seen by a PA. It was on a Thursday evening, so a quiet time at the ER.

 

[FirstReflection]

Just to be clear, it isn't true your medical care didn't cost a dime because it does.

Oh, I didn't mean that Canada's health care system doesn't cost a dime. It certainly takes up a lot of our tax dollars! I know that I'm paying for health care with my taxes - that's for sure!

But what I meant was that there is no bill that comes directly to me and I don't have to discuss the costs with anyone - like an insurance company or something. I just mean that I didn't pay a dime "out of pocket" and I didn't have to think about the cost at all. Definitely pay for it in taxes, but it's not a direct sort of cost is all I mean

Like highfigh said he actually saw a $585 charge on some sort of invoice. I'm assuming that his insurance pays for that, but he actually saw the price in some direct way. I was just meaning to say that I never saw any sort of invoice. Obviously, my ER visit cost money, but it's all taken care of through tax dollars and, as a patient, I'm not actually looking at a $ sign in any way.

So, from what I'm reading here, it doesn't sound like the actual care itself is much different. There is still some sort of wait at a USA ER, just like here in Canada. Clearly, more severe injuries get priority - which makes total sense.

I was just really confused when I heard and read some of the claims by the folks in the States who are opposing health care reform in the USA in regards to the way things are in Canada. What they were saying about how long you have to wait and about access to care and about the level of quality in Canada just didn't seem to jibe with my own experience here. But then again, I don't have experience with the USA's system, so I thought that it really might be a whole lot better! It sounds like it was hyperbole though - which is what I thought it might be. I mean, for sure, there are some individual horror stories in Canadian health care. But I'm sure there are some individual horror stories in EVERY country!

I'm confused about itschris' comment about uninsured people using the ER as their primary care doctor though

The way it works in my neck of the woods - most people have a family doctor or a General Practitioner. We go to them for regular check-ups or call and book an appointment with them if we have some sort of problem. If we just have a minor issue like a flu or a minor wound or something, we'll usually go to a drop-in clinic. It's usually at least a few days wait - maybe up to a couple of weeks - to get in to see your family doctor or GP here, so for minor things like that, a drop-in clinic is great.

Quite a few people do not have a regular family doctor or GP though and they will usually just visit their local drop-in clinic for pretty much everything. Most clinics will book appointments and the doctors who work there usually have their own, individual practices as well, so the clinics are a good resource for almost everything.

The ER is just for things that need immediate care and are too serious for a clinic. There is, of course, sort of a grey area between what should go to a clinic and what should go to the ER, but most things are pretty easy to figure out.

The family doctor/GP, clinic doctor or ER doctor can all make referrals to specialists and the wait time to see a specialist can vary a lot depending on the urgency and also the availability. If you, as the patient, can make yourself available whenever there is an open slot, you can, of course, get in to see a specialist much quicker.

It sounds like the USA system isn't all that different, but I've never, ever heard of someone using the ER for basic care here in Canada. The nurses who admit the patients, in my experience, have all been really good about suggesting where a patient should go if they are not sure. A quick phone call is usually all it takes to decide whether to book an appointment with your GP, go to a drop-in clinic or visit the ER

 

[WmAx]

The USA is silly, really. They could nearly pay for a sort of universal health care system (I don't want a government run/owned system - I am for a system that specifically aids those without an income to pay for their own insurance) if they ended the useless and damaging 'war on drugs', in which tens of billions of dollars are wasted in the obvious sense, and in which many more tens of billions of dollars could be raised through proper taxation of drugs, similar to alcohol distribution and taxation. The money to pay for the health care is right there.

-Chris

 

[lsiberian]

The USA is silly, really. They could nearly pay for a sort of universal health care system (I don't want a government run/owned system - I am for a system that specifically aids those without an income to pay for their own insurance) if they ended the useless and damaging 'war on drugs', in which tens of billions of dollars are wasted in the obvious sense, and in which many more tens of billions of dollars could be raised through proper taxation of drugs, similar to alcohol distribution and taxation. The money to pay for the health care is right there.

-Chris

That move is political suicide sadly. You see Americans through their actions discriminate against minorities. It's ok for us to smoke our weed in this nation, but not for others to smoke theirs. I think our money would be much better spent on rehabilitation. Plus the border issues would be reduced when Phillip Morris started growing marijuana. I'm also for lowering the drinking age. I think it's silly we jail kids for having a party. But our society is run by people with a different viewpoint than mine.

 

[JerryLove]

The USA is silly, really. They could nearly pay for a sort of universal health care system (I don't want a government run/owned system - I am for a system that specifically aids those without an income to pay for their own insurance)

Unregulated but mandated?

People pick on the Government for ridiculous cost overruns: but when I look at the biggest examples do you know what I see charing said costs? Private subcontractors.

The B1 (designed and built by Lockeed) and it's $30,000 toilet seat (also Lockeed) would be one example: the hundreds of billions to Haliburton and Bektel another.

And we wouldn't have to stop spending on anything. Government run programs are universally cheaper than US healthcare, the most expensive on the planet (Germany comes to mind with a per-capita cost half ours).

Covering the <10% of uninsured, or even the 25% of under insured is easily paid for with the 50% reduction in per-person insurance costs of a properly run healthcare system.

 

[highfigh]

I can't stand to go there and see a waiting room where 50% of the people are either crying, groaning, or subdued due to the pain or ailment and the other half are carrying on laughing, talking on cell phones, going in and out to smoke,etc.

I think the latter half ought to be triaged and sent to a local clinic somewhere, not the ER.

I have been saying more clinics should be used as primary care providers when people don't have insurance for years. When I described narfing my finger and going to the ER, I only went because I had never done anything like that and didn't know if I needed to go there, but I wanted to play it safe. It's not as if I was squirting but it is a power tool, so....

Also, I wrote that the hospital was there. That's because they lost so much money treating people without insurance that they had to close. Even if hospitals had clinics in hte same building, ER personnel wouldn't be treating them and people who don't cost as much would be able to do it. That, alone, should lower the actual cost to insurance companies.

 

[Sheep]

I now always wear gloves when handling saw blades or router bits. It cost only 20 bucks for good gloves and they have saved me from numerous cuts.

I notice you have a knack for getting cut and would suggest some good gloves to prevent it.

On ER care. It pretty much stinks in our country unless you have a real emergency(life or death)

We need a better system and a public option won't solve the problem.

Don't listen to the above post. Gloves do not belong anywhere near spinning tools. In stead of a finger getting cut, you're entire arm will be pulled into the machine, possibly more. Looks like Canada's schooling system works better too.

Back on topic,

I have a family member currently in the Hospital. They've had an on-going battle with cancer (which was caught early and controlled) as well as heart problems. They were put in the hospital from falling, and since then there have been a few complications. We've never had to wait to get anything done, and every time there is a problem it is promptly attended to. Also, everything is covered under our Health care system.

SheepStar

 

[GO-NAD!]

Don't listen to the above post. Gloves do not belong anywhere near spinning tools. In stead of a finger getting cut, you're entire arm will be pulled into the machine, possibly more. Looks like Canada's schooling system works better too.

I noticed that too. Sorry Isiberian, but he's right. Gloves belong nowhere near machinery where there's any chance that they might get caught. Better to slash a finger open, or even lose it, than to have your whole hand mangled.

It's standard industry safety practice (at least it's my experience) - bare hands around spinning machinery.

 

[lsiberian]

Unregulated but mandated?

People pick on the Government for ridiculous cost overruns: but when I look at the biggest examples do you know what I see charing said costs? Private subcontractors.

The B1 (designed and built by Lockeed) and it's $30,000 toilet seat (also Lockeed) would be one example: the hundreds of billions to Haliburton and Bektel another.

And we wouldn't have to stop spending on anything. Government run programs are universally cheaper than US healthcare, the most expensive on the planet (Germany comes to mind with a per-capita cost half ours).

Covering the <10% of uninsured, or even the 25% of under insured is easily paid for with the 50% reduction in per-person insurance costs of a properly run healthcare system.

You really think that $30,000 on a toilet seat goes to a toilet seat?

 

[lsiberian]

Don't listen to the above post. Gloves do not belong anywhere near spinning tools. In stead of a finger getting cut, you're entire arm will be pulled into the machine, possibly more. Looks like Canada's schooling system works better too.

If the device is unplugged and you are changing the blade or bit how is wearing a glove dangerous. I can understand if you are feeding stuff, but I don't see the danger in putting a bit in my router with a glove on.

Maybe I'm crazy and unsafe though.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

I now always wear gloves when handling saw blades or router bits. It cost only 20 bucks for good gloves and they have saved me from numerous cuts.

I notice you have a knack for getting cut and would suggest some good gloves to prevent it.

On ER care. It pretty much stinks in our country unless you have a real emergency(life or death)

We need a better system and a public option won't solve the problem.

Don't listen to the above post. Gloves do not belong anywhere near spinning tools. In stead of a finger getting cut, you're entire arm will be pulled into the machine, possibly more. Looks like Canada's schooling system works better too.
Back on topic,

I have a family member currently in the Hospital. They've had an on-going battle with cancer (which was caught early and controlled) as well as heart problems. They were put in the hospital from falling, and since then there have been a few complications. We've never had to wait to get anything done, and every time there is a problem it is promptly attended to. Also, everything is covered under our Health care system.

SheepStar

Sheep,
You are correct but he never said anything about operating the tools. He only mentioned "handling saw blades or router bits". Go back to school.

I hope your family member gets well soon and I'm glad that they are getting the care that they need.


lsiberian,
Wearing gloves while handling blades/bits is good practice and I hope that you don't wear gloves or loose fitting clothing while operating (most) power tools. A nick or minor cut could become missing a finger or worse if you're not careful. Which I'm sure you are.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programing.