When will there be a true 4k UHD projector for under $3,500?

AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Home theater with a 10ft viewing distance would benefit from a 4k projector, right?
One source I read said that for a 150" screen, you would have to be 7 FT away to see the difference in resolution between 4K vs 2K if your eyesight is 20/20.

But IMO the 4K or 8K resolution or HDR isn't the salient factor when buying a PJ.

The salient factor is the actual QUALITY of the PJ itself.

And when you are buying something like a JVC 4K (or 4K-eShift) PJ, you are buying an extremely HIGH QUALITY PJ.

The 4K Res, 8K Res, or HDR is just a bonus.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi



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Why? For the Short-Throw or the Laser? :D

Would you get this Epson for almost $3K over a JVC 4K-eShift that's about the same price (MSRP was $6K last year)?
 
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Brettc

Audioholic
I have a cheap $200 hd 1080 and have no complaints but you can’t see your hand in front of your face with lights off


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cameron paterson

Senior Audioholic
Is the LK970 not an HDR projector? Is it SDR? Whats the difference. Is native 4k HDR? And true 4k like the LK970, SDR? I actually dont know what either of them even mean.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Is the LK970 not an HDR projector? Is it SDR? Whats the difference. Is native 4k HDR? And true 4k like the LK970, SDR? I actually dont know what either of them even mean.
I could have missed it, but I don’t see the word “HDR” anywhere in the spec of this PJ.

The LK970 native res is 3840x2160.

“True” or Cinema 4K is 4096x2160p (like my new JVC NX5 or NX7).

The JVC 590 or 790 4K-eShift is 3840x2160 res.

My impression is this.
If your PJ doesn’t have HDR, then your PJ is SDR. Then just don’t watch anything with HDR. If you watch contents with HDR with a SDR PJ, the color may look washed out or pale.

But SDR contents should still look awesome.

I’m sure BMX and others will have much better descriptions of HDR. :D
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Home theater with a 10ft viewing distance would benefit from a 4k projector, right?
Viewing distance isn't a determining factor by itself. Screen size + viewing distance is what makes resolution matter. If you have a 20 inch screen, then you would need to be under 2' away from it to notice the higher resolution. But, if you have a 200" screen, then you could be 20' away and start seeing a benefit to higher resolution.

So, you can't just shout out a distance and say 'resolution now matters'. You have to include the actual screen size.

Likewise, you can't say '4K only matters on screens over 60" diagonal' - it's not about screen size by itself. You have to include screen size AND viewing distance.

But, 4K includes added color depth which can improve the image and the overall recording quality could be better from the start, and both of these can factor into a better image on screen than 1080p. But, many are reporting that the jump from 1080p to 4K is not as drastic as the jump from DVD to Blu-ray was.

At 10' a 100" diagonal will show some benefit from having a 4K projector to the average viewer.

Here is a convenient chart, that has been widely used, that compares resolution to screen size to viewing distance...
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This projector is not a 4K model. It is a 1080p model.

I'm interested in knowing what 1080p projector you have that cost $200 new.

There are a lot of DLP imports coming in this year that will use the faux-K chip and will be laser based ultra short throw models similar to the LS100, but with much cleaner lines and better audio.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Is the LK970 not an HDR projector? Is it SDR? Whats the difference. Is native 4k HDR? And true 4k like the LK970, SDR? I actually dont know what either of them even mean.
I will say that HDR is a term that really - REALLY - bugs me.

HDR was used in photography to begin with. It was used to deal with the limited dynamic range of digital cameras. You could shoot a 'balanced' image of a scene that had bright areas and dark areas and the dark areas would be too dark, and the bright areas would be too bright, and there was no way to correct it. Someone then got the idea to overexpose the picture, so you could get more detail from the dark areas, then underexpose the bright areas to get more detail from them. Then, combine the three images to get good details across the board from dark scenes to bright scenes and that is what HDR truly is when applied to photography.

HDR for video viewing means something completely different. It seems to be a remapping of colors to make 'white' much brighter than it used to be. So, that when you capture an image of the sun, and show it as 'white' on your TV, it is almost blindingly bright. In the old days, with standard dynamic range, the sun would just appear 'white'. There was nothing that was blinding about it. But, newer TVs which have high dynamic range, are supposed to put 2,000+ nits on screen, when needed, which will almost make you look away from your TV when you see specular highlights, like the sun, or a sunlight reflection off of something. Which means 'white' is not just white, but it is an intensity of white. It changes the dynamic range of the TV and the tone mapping to the TV itself from previous standards to the new high dynamic range standard.

Why they needed to come out with multiple versions of HDR tone mapping is completely beyond me.

Projectors are pretty much incapable of truly delivering HDR. They just don't get bright enough. You would need several thousand lumens on a 100" screen to get acceptable HDR. But, the added tonality of HDR content is supposed to be pretty good no matter what and the added colors of HDR content is really what makes it shine. So, you can view HDR content and get the added color depth it offers on a projector and see some benefit from it.

I'm not entirely sold on HDR yet as my post should indicate, but in fairness, I think I need to do more viewing of SDR Blu-rays and compare them to their HDR counterparts on my projector and then do the same on a good 4K TV.

EDIT: Looking for a bit on YouTube, this was the most technical explanation of HDR and what it is supposed to be. I didn't see much definition of why HDR has different standards (HDR10, Dolby Vision), but I do get that remapping the brightness level matters because a white piece of paper shouldn't be as bright as the sun, and right now, with SDR, that's how things look. With HDR, paper needs to just be 'white', while the sun should be 'blinding white'. So, a display needs to remap that brightness.

But, HDR seems to be more about the display being able to have much more contrast within the display at any time. Apparently REC2100 defines that as a 200,000:1 contrast ratio.

 
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cameron paterson

Senior Audioholic
Ok I just bought a 4k UHD movie. How To Train Your Dragon 3. It says I need a 4k HDR display but it plays at 1080p. Whats weird is.... I have a copy of The Avengers Infinity War blu ray and when i play it, it says its resolution is 3840x2160. Is it upscaling the blu ray to 4k or what? I have a Sony X800 UHD Blu Ray player if that matters. Will the Avengers Blu Ray look better than the How To Train Your Dragon since its the higher resolution? What device do I need to cheat HDR sources? Do I need my projector calibrated or a different UHD Blu Ray player?
 
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cameron paterson

Senior Audioholic
I did something to my AVR and now my Blu Ray player says 4k with a Blu Ray movie. Should I only buy Blu Ray movies from now on? The Blu Ray looks better than the 4k disc!
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
The Blu Ray looks better than the 4k disc!
You mean the 1080p/regular Blu-ray discs look better than the 4K/HDR Blu-ray discs?

It's not the 1080p vs 2160p RESOLUTION that's important.

When you play HDR contents on SDR projectors or TVs, the color might look "washed out" or faded/pale-looking.

So, yes, since your PJ is SDR, I would only buy SDR contents, which means 1080p contents, not 4K/HDR contents.
 
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cameron paterson

Senior Audioholic
One thing i didnt mention was that when i run my LK970 thru my receiver and the receiver to the blu ray player, the 4k HDMI 1 that has the HDCP 2.2 does not work. No sound or video. But, when i hook up the projector straight to the blu ray player the 4k HDMI on the projector works. What do you think the problem is?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
One thing i didnt mention was that when i run my LK970 thru my receiver and the receiver to the blu ray player, the 4k HDMI 1 that has the HDCP 2.2 does not work. No sound or video. But, when i hook up the projector straight to the blu ray player the 4k HDMI on the projector works. What do you think the problem is?
Probably HDMI compatibility ("handshake") issue.

I'm sure the SONY X800 BD player is HDCP 2.2.

The Receiver and PJ are also HDCP 2.2?
 
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cameron paterson

Senior Audioholic
Also when the projector is plugged straight into the Blu Ray it says 480p. Is it my receiver or the projector or both? The projector will not work with the 4k HDCP 2.2 hooked up to the receiver. But the HDMI 2 works fine hooked up to the projector.
 
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cameron paterson

Senior Audioholic
Yes receiver and PJ are also HDCP 2.2 its the Benq LK970 PJ. And the Denon X4400H receiver.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
Seems that the BD player isn't auto detecting your resolution. Make sure you have video set to pass through on the Denon. I have the 4300x and have never had the issue you are describing.

I also have a 1300 denon hooked to a 4K vizio and haven't had any issues with handshake or my sources not recognizing supported resolutions.

Once you set the Denon to pass through you should be able to manually set the resolution on the BD player.
 
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cameron paterson

Senior Audioholic
I will pm you and could you walk me through how to do this?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I will pm you and could you walk me through how to do this?
Just play around with the Video On-Screen setup.

I believe it is already in Bypass by Default. I used to use Denon's. And I recall not having to change anything in the Video setup section since it was already in Bypass/Direct on the Video Processing.

But just use your remote control and go to the Video section. There should be something that will say your Video Processing is in Direct or Bypass.

Yamaha calls it either "DIRECT" or "PROCESSING". My Yamaha is set to DIRECT.

I think it's good to try BOTH Processing and Direct Video Modes to see how it works with your PJ.
 

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