When engineering for Atmos does the 2ft above ear rule apply for surrounds

Cheesehead85

Cheesehead85

Audiophyte
i'm doing in walls for my side and rear channels in a 7.2.4 setup with in ceiling speakers for Atmos height channels

my last bit of engineering lies in the height of the sides and rears from the ear

the old Floyd Toole rule of thumb is 2-3 feet above the ear

has this changed with height channels introduced through Atmos ??

should i get closer to ear level in an Atmos system now that we have a true height channel with Atmos....
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
i'm doing in walls for my side and rear channels in a 7.2.4 setup with in ceiling speakers for Atmos height channels

my last bit of engineering lies in the height of the sides and rears from the ear

the old Floyd Toole rule of thumb is 2-3 feet above the ear

has this changed with height channels introduced through Atmos ??

should i get closer to ear level in an Atmos system now that we have a true height channel with Atmos....
60" for the tweeter above the floor is optimum for surrounds and rear backs. So that would be 2' above ear height. That is the Dolby recommendation. That is what I did and it has worked out fine.
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic Chief
i'm doing in walls for my side and rear channels in a 7.2.4 setup with in ceiling speakers for Atmos height channels

my last bit of engineering lies in the height of the sides and rears from the ear

the old Floyd Toole rule of thumb is 2-3 feet above the ear

has this changed with height channels introduced through Atmos ??

should i get closer to ear level in an Atmos system now that we have a true height channel with Atmos....
That's OK in a dedicated room.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Depends on the ceiling height. I would stay closer to 1’ above. The spec that I’ve seen and used is that side and rear surrounds tweeters should be at the same height of the mains tweeters times 1.25 or maybe times 1.6. So for example if the mains are at 40”, take 40X1.25=50” or 40x1.5=60”.
So yeah, it has changed but not a lot. Early recommendations were to try and stay very close to ear height, but when people started building theaters with multiple seats, they found a little extra height to clear heads and seat backs helped.
 
Cheesehead85

Cheesehead85

Audiophyte
Depends on the ceiling height. I would stay closer to 1’ above. The spec that I’ve seen and used is that side and rear surrounds tweeters should be at the same height of the mains tweeters times 1.25 or maybe times 1.6. So for example if the mains are at 40”, take 40X1.25=50” or 40x1.5=60”.
So yeah, it has changed but not a lot. Early recommendations were to try and stay very close to ear height, but when people started building theaters with multiple seats, they found a little extra height to clear heads and seat backs helped.
thanks for this, clears things up

its relative to seating situation more so then a standard height above the ear but with my room its just a couch so ill go with the 1.25x above the front L/R tweeter
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
thanks for this, clears things up

its relative to seating situation more so then a standard height above the ear but with my room its just a couch so ill go with the 1.25x above the front L/R tweeter
I would take the higher number. Having the surrounds too low is a mistake. The reason is localization. You don't want to localize to to the surrounds. If you get them too low any seating near the surrounds, will localize and that will be a bad seat. You have to be careful if you have a tiered theater. You really do need to keep the surround's tweeters 5' above the floor at that location. I can assure you that a tiered theater can not be tied to the mains tweeter height, which ideally should be at 36".

Here is a picture.



The tweeter heights of the surrounds and rear backs, are 60" above the second tier. If they were lower then those second and third rows would localize to either the surrounds, rear backs, or both at times.

You really don't want any seat to localize to any speaker ever. If you do the sense of space and illusion is lost.

My advice is that if in doubt choose the higher level. It will be the safer bet.
 
Cheesehead85

Cheesehead85

Audiophyte
I would take the higher number. Having the surrounds too low is a mistake. The reason is localization. You don't want to localize to to the surrounds. If you get them too low any seating near the surrounds, will localize and that will be a bad seat. You have to be careful if you have a tiered theater. You really do need to keep the surround's tweeters 5' above the floor at that location. I can assure you that a tiered theater can not be tied to the mains tweeter height, which ideally should be at 36".

Here is a picture.



The tweeter heights of the surrounds and rear backs, are 60" above the second tier. If they were lower then those second and third rows would localize to either the surrounds, rear backs, or both at times.

You really don't want any seat to localize to any speaker ever. If you do the sense of space and illusion is lost.

My advice is that if in doubt choose the higher level. It will be the safer bet.
i only have one level of seating, ear height is the same for everyone.

I agree about the localization for sure i don't want it to become an issue however with the single row of seats and one ear level i am trying to get the best performance possible engineered out of my setup

i will take this into consideration and maybe raise them slightly from the 1.25x mark

Thanks !
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
FWIW. I think I ended up with 55-60”. Don’t have a tape handy...but I believe I was 39” times 1.55.

In any case, I forgot to ask what is the ceiling height?
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Ok. That’s like 7’-3”. Not very high. Ime going too high with the surrounds won’t allow enough separation between the bed layer and height layer. IMO that’s important.
 
Cheesehead85

Cheesehead85

Audiophyte
Ok. That’s like 7’-3”. Not very high. Ime going too high with the surrounds won’t allow enough separation between the bed layer and height layer. IMO that’s important.
yeah good point, makes sense

seems like the 1.25x is a good sweet spot for me

that puts me at 50”, maybe i’ll up it too 52” which is 1 foot above the fronts tweeter/ear height
 

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