What's the big deal with Monster?

[jimmygreen]

I was reading about the sound level problem in another post and I went to Radio Shack to check out the SLMs. Then I went to the bulk speaker wire page. This is where the questions begin.

Why would I pay twice as much for Monster wire? Shouldn't I just look for the biggest cheapest wire available? Or are there certain characteristics that wire should or must have to perform the best?

I don't understand this very well and I hope that I didn't start a "Monster Bash" because they charge so much. I know that there are some strong opinions about them (like with Bose). Maybe they do something better than the others. Or not?

 

[j_garcia]

Well, Monster makes quality products. The only issue I typically have with them is, you can get the same or better for less money. So, to me, it's not that they make crap, it's just that they charge a bit too much for what you get. I've tried plenty of their stuff too, so not just speaking out of my rear.

 

[jimmygreen]

So shouldn't I just go for 16 gauge wire? Or is too big too much sometimes? And is there a 'must-have' quality that I should look for?

And lastly, is flat wire ever a bad idea?

 

[Cygnus]

16 gauge wire is really thin. You would probably be better with 12 or 10, depending on what you are doing....which is...?

 

[jimmygreen]

Oh, I was thinking in the other direction (bigger guage=bigger wire). I realize that it is actually the other way around.

I am going to be replacing my receiver and speakers as soon as I get back to the States. So at this point I want a Marantz 7400 if at a good price with good complimenting speakers (I could spend $1000 on speakers).

I have a Harmon Kardon (w/Denon speakers) HTIB from 6 years ago that is still doing well, but I want to experience something more than what I have now. The room about 15' x 25' and is open on one end.

The goal is to setup a more enjoyable system that will endure the next few years with all of the format and standards changes that we expect.

 

[j_garcia]

There is pretty much no time you would ever need 10ga in a HT situation, unless you have some SERIOUS speakers. 14 or 12 is sufficient for pretty much everything, and 16 might even be fine for short runs, depending on the speakers.

I do not use any other Monster products, but I use their speaker wire because I got it really cheap in bulk. It works just like any other wire, and as long as you don't spend top $$ on it, there's nothing wrong with it. IMO you'll do just as well with 14 or 12ga Sound King wire from Parts Express.

 

[brian32672]

If you don't mind behind wall cl3 rated wire then look at this post (post #'s 28 and 29) http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12693&page=1&pp=30

 

[jaxvon]

Yeah, Monster isn't special, just overpriced. It's not junk though. Just realize that it doesn't present a good value if purchased at retail. I know that BMXTRIX, who does custom installs, will ONLY wire with Monster in-wall cable. It's just way more managable when doing wire pulls. But this isn't a sound reason, it's because it makes his job easier.

 

[BMXTRIX]

For behind the wall running, I only use Monster CIPRO wiring as it is by far the easiest wire to work with that I have ever experieinced. It is true that it sounds about the same as 14 gague electrical wire, but I don't want to work with electrical wire, or another manufacturers wire that is as difficult to work with as electrical wire.

I'm not dumb enough to just buy a few hundred feet at BB though. I go online and pick up 500 feet on eBay for about a hundred bucks, then when (if) I have left overs I save it for later or for friends and family that need the wire later. eBay pricing is about what you will pay online for about half a dozen other vendors cabling and (in my opinion) is far superior for it's flexibility, how easily it pulls through walls and around corners, its ability to be stripped, and the ease of termination of the final cable.

A few cents more per foot maybe, but well worth it, and I know the cable sounds good.

Full retail?

What in the world are you smoking!?!?

 

[jimmygreen]

Thanks for the advice and experience. This is helpful. I thought that I was going to start a string of bashing because I didn't know that Monster had advantages over others. They advertise better sound because their high-tech plastic jacket produces crisper sound, but I wasn't so sure about that one.

Currently I need to run wire in a finished room and it needs to be as concealed as possible. So I imagine that I will be using flat wire.

We will eventually be moving into a new home and I hope that I will be able to wire the next one before the walls go in. I don't want to cut into the walls this time.

But we are going to replace the carpet in the next two months. Maybe that is a good time to run the new wire.

 

[bpape]

If you're going to be replacing carpet, see if you can slide the wire under the baseboard and behind the tack strip. That way, you can use normal wire.

As for gage requirements, it's a function of the power to be carried and the length you need to run. For 99.999999% of the cases 12ga is plenty.

 

[richardp]

You can buy Monster Cipro 16x2 from Petra for $108.00 a 1000. We use it all the time. It is great for inwall aplications and pulls great.

 

[tbewick]

I think that the rule-of-thumb for you to spend 10-15% of your total system cost on cables is a good one to follow.

 

[BMXTRIX]

You can buy Monster Cipro 16x2 from Petra for $108.00 a 1000. We use it all the time. It is great for inwall aplications and pulls great.

I would use 14/2 or 14/4 for a home theater setup where I am pushing a lot more than 30-50 watts per channel and want to preserve the full audio quality. I think 12 gauge is a bit overkill, but many push for 12 gauge and that isn't a CIPro cable. 14 gauge is not a lot more and gives you less resistance.

If you run 16/4 or 14/4 then the possibility of bi-wiring or bi-amping is a future possibility which is pretty cool.

 

[Snap]

BMX I agree 12 is a bit much. (unless you have lots of loot to spare then by all means have at it. It is not going to hurt any.) 14/4 or 16/4 is not a bad idea if you want to prep for bi-amp. If money is a factor then 16/4 or even 16/2 is used a lot with no probs.

 

[jimmygreen]

OK, I looked into the wire and I found that there are different gauges and some come with two or four conductors.

I didn't understand why I would need four, and now that you mention future-proofing with four I am more curious.

There must be speaker out there now that have four posts, but I don't know much about them, and will it become more popular or even a standard soon? I would rather increase the budget now if I am going to get something that I don't have to replace soon.

 

[Spiffyfast]

OK, I looked into the wire and I found that there are different gauges and some come with two or four conductors.

I didn't understand why I would need four, and now that you mention future-proofing with four I am more curious.

There must be speaker out there now that have four posts, but I don't know much about them, and will it become more popular or even a standard soon? I would rather increase the budget now if I am going to get something that I don't have to replace soon.

A speaker with 4 terminals for inputs has the ability to be bi-wired or bi-amped. Bi-wiring really does nothing, but bi-amping allows the lower crossover speakers to be driven by a seperate amp than the upper crossover speakers. Think woofers being drivin by one amp, and mid woofers and tweeters be driven by a second amp.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

14ga flat .44 cents a foot

Currently I need to run wire in a finished room and it needs to be as concealed as possible. So I imagine that I will be using flat wire.

We will eventually be moving into a new home and I hope that I will be able to wire the next one before the walls go in. I don't want to cut into the walls this time.

But we are going to replace the carpet in the next two months. Maybe that is a good time to run the new wire.

Here's some 14ga flat wire for .44 a foot. Not bad, and you can get it locally. Perfect for running under carpeting.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog_name=CTLG&category_name=CTLG_007_002_003_004&product_id=278-1273

 

[Pat D]

Here is a link to an article containing a table suggesting the minimum size of speaker cable for various distances and speaker impedances. Not that it doesn't hurt to use bigger wire. On the other hand, if the wire is too big it is harder to work with and sometimes is hard to fit in the binding posts.

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Here is a link to an article containing a table suggesting the minimum size of speaker cable for various distances and speaker impedances. Not that it doesn't hurt to use bigger wire. On the other hand, if the wire is too big it is harder to work with and sometimes is hard to fit in the binding posts.

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

Great thread. I love Russell's stuff. One of the amazing pieces in that quote you mentioned was how our hearing declines as we age.

An article was published in Audio, July 1994 titled "Speaker cables: Measurements Vs Psycho-acoustic data" by Edgar Villchur. The psycho-acoustic data shows that for pure tones at 16kHz the smallest average detectable difference in level is 3.05 dB. He also indicates: "It can be predicted that at a given level the just noticeable difference will be increased by a significantly greater amount by the masking effect of musical sound below 10 kHz." (See note 1). The findings were based on individuals 20 to 24 years old that had normal hearing to 20 kHz (See note 2). This is what might be called the best of conditions for hearing differences.

However, as we age, our sensitivity to high frequencies decreases dramatically. The chart is from Modern Sound Reproduction by Harry F. Olson. It shows the average hearing loss Vs age for men and women at frequencies from 250 Hz to 8000 Hz. This means that for a man at age 35, sensitivity is down about 11 dB at 8000 Hz. For a woman at that age, sensitivity is down only about 5 dB. We can infer that sensitivity is down a whole lot more at 20kHz.