What's next: Receiver, DAC, Integrated...?

[aszatk01]

Current setup:
Apple TV locally storing music (most lostless) Toslink to
Sony 333ES receiver (so using the receivers DAC)
to
B&W 602 S2's around
System time is split pretty evenly between 5.1 HT viewing and 2.1 music through the Apple TV. So ideally, the next upgrade would benefit me in both.

My thoughts on next upgrade ($1500 budget or less...hopefully):

Receiver: could use some more power, audyssey sounds nice, no HDMI in my
current, some annoying features i'd like to upgrade, upgraded DAC?
Looking at Marantz 6004. Would benefit both HT and music listening I'd hope but probably only marginally all around.

External DAC: As I've converted music to "file" format I do see a need for DAC improvement. I could get a fairly inexpensive one but would really only help with 2.1 music listening.

Peachtree NOVA: Benefit of external DAC, possibly better amplification over my receiver? not sure... but again, really only helping w/ 2.1 listening.

Or seperates like Emotiva...

What's going to be my best all around bang for my buck?
-Reviews on the NOVA are amazing however I'll have a receiver with a built in DAC already and only helping music listening, which is barely 50% time the system is in use.
-An upgraded receiver gives me a handful of "goodies" that would benefit all areas of the system but not dramatically in any one area I'd say--am I wrong about this?
-An external DAC is the cheapest option but would it be that much better than existing DAC built into receiver or on a new receiver if i went that route?

Thanks in advance!!!

 

[aszatk01]

nobody? got some nice responses over at computeraudiophile.com
they're a great wealth of knowledge but so are you guys!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think external DACs are a 100% waste of time and money.

Just feed everything to a good receiver (or pre-pro + amp) and you are good to go.

 

[Warpdrv]

I think external DACs are a 100% waste of time and money.

Just feed everything to a good receiver (or pre-pro + amp) and you are good to go.

I disagree, for those that are $$$ challenged they add a decent benefit of higher end SQ for a improved 2 channel music experience. One could buy an inexpensive receiver and feed the source though a nice DAC and get a much better sound stage with it... while maintaining the ability to have a modern device for 5 to 7 channel HT.

Integrateds are great but generally expensive....
NAIM makes awesome products with very nice DACs

There are obviously other products out there, I'm just not that familiar with all of them...

 

[Seth=L]

I disagree, for those that are $$$ challenged they add a decent benefit of higher end SQ for a improved 2 channel music experience. One could buy an inexpensive receiver and feed the source though a nice DAC and get a much better sound stage with it... while maintaining the ability to have a modern device for 5 to 7 channel HT.

Integrateds are great but generally expensive....
NAIM makes awesome products with very nice DACs

There are obviously other products out there, I'm just not that familiar with all of them...

The audible performance advantages and disadvantages between DACs in relation to their prices (in receivers, separates, or CD players) is far outweighed by the advantages of chosing a better speaker system.

For example. If you had $2500 total, and you spent $300 on a good stereo receiver, $300 for a CD player $700 on a DAC, and give or take $100 on cables and interconnects that leaves you with $1100 for the speakers. Alternatively you could spend $500 on a good integrated amplifier, $300 on the CD player and give or take $100 on the cables you are now left with $1600 for speakers. You could also decide to still spend closer to $1000 on speakers and leave you around $500-600 for room treatments. So you could either have better speakers, room treatments, and of course superior power from a heftier piece of equipment capable of handling low impedance loads more effectively while also having higher headroom capabilities.

I'm hard pressed to hear the differences between CD players and their DACs. Noise levels are the only thing I've been able to notice and they are so minimal you would have to be using headphones to even notice those noise levels are present, and even then you have to be trying to hear them.

 

[Warpdrv]

I guess I assess every situation differently....

I wouldn't start out planning on getting a DAC right from the get go - to me its another improvement on a system as far as I'm concerned

As you say, I would certainly not go buying a DAC right from the get go... Speakers are the most important - and start adding pieces to tweak the system down the line... Heck, I'm still making changes to IMO already awesome system...

 

[Seth=L]

Current setup:
Apple TV locally storing music (most lostless) Toslink to
Sony 333ES receiver (so using the receivers DAC)
to
B&W 602 S2's around
System time is split pretty evenly between 5.1 HT viewing and 2.1 music through the Apple TV. So ideally, the next upgrade would benefit me in both.

My thoughts on next upgrade ($1500 budget or less...hopefully):

Receiver: could use some more power, audyssey sounds nice, no HDMI in my
current, some annoying features i'd like to upgrade, upgraded DAC?
Looking at Marantz 6004. Would benefit both HT and music listening I'd hope but probably only marginally all around.

External DAC: As I've converted music to "file" format I do see a need for DAC improvement. I could get a fairly inexpensive one but would really only help with 2.1 music listening.

Peachtree NOVA: Benefit of external DAC, possibly better amplification over my receiver? not sure... but again, really only helping w/ 2.1 listening.

Or seperates like Emotiva...

What's going to be my best all around bang for my buck?
-Reviews on the NOVA are amazing however I'll have a receiver with a built in DAC already and only helping music listening, which is barely 50% time the system is in use.
-An upgraded receiver gives me a handful of "goodies" that would benefit all areas of the system but not dramatically in any one area I'd say--am I wrong about this?
-An external DAC is the cheapest option but would it be that much better than existing DAC built into receiver or on a new receiver if i went that route?

Thanks in advance!!!

I think you would likely be dissapointed at the lack of significant change if you purchase an external DAC to use with your already ancient receiver. Your power limits will remain the same, meaning if you are experiencing limitations in terms of peak power capability these will obviously remain unchanged and will continue to cause problems for your sound quality.

A new receiver isn't a bad plan because it allows new connectivity schemes to be employed such as HDMI and you would then be able to utilize the new surround formats offered on Blu-ray.

 

[indulger]

What do you have for a sub? Didn't see one mentioned. Get a receiver in the $500 dollar range & the rest on a sub.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...I wouldn't start out planning on getting a DAC right from the get go - to me its another improvement on a system...

According to The Audio Critics (which base their conclusions on double-blinded studies), DACs, Amps, Preamps, CD players, & Wires make no differences in overall practical sound quality.

Instead, the speakers, room treatments, and Processors (DSPs, etc.) make the sound quality differences (good or bad).

 

[aszatk01]

thanks all! I could have gone on forever so I left some of my equipment, just mentioned the important ones to the situation. I'm running a B&W ASW 6 series. Not the best, not the worst.

OK,OK so you all sold me on the receiver or seperates over the DAC which makes sense. Oh And I was only interested in the DAC because of having all my music ripped and playing from the Apple TV now. I had been using a Pioneer Elite 45A universal player for most CD's--just now not w/ the ATV (I still use it for the occasional DVD, SACD and DVD-Audio)

Now, Emotiva setup or a higher end AVR...hmmmmm.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I vote for the Emotiva UMC1 + XPA5.

But, again, I don't think there will be a sound quality difference when comparing a receiver vs. pre-pro in Direct Mode or Pure Direct Mode (bypass all EQs & DSPs).

 

[Warpdrv]

The XPA - 5 should be a good choice at a bargain price, has the UMC-1 gotten past its issues many were having with the firmware, I haven't really kept up....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...has the UMC-1 gotten past its issues many were having with the firmware...

Probably not quite yet.

But probably soon.

 

[aszatk01]

Thanks all, I appreciate the help...

Why the XPA-5 over the UPA-5? for my B&W 6 series I assumed the UPA would suffice...
I was actually thinking the UPA-7-while I'm still 5.1 now it might be a better future-proofing purchase incase I decide to go 7.1 at some point.

The UMC-1 isn't available for another month or so (since I wasn't on the preorder list), so I'll follow the emotiva boards a bit to see how it comes along w/ bug fixes and probably make the final decision then.

 

[egreen1976]

I was just faced with the same type decision, going with a Rotel 15 series processor or going with the Peachtree Nova. I purchased both, but hands down the Nova's DAC does add something to 2 channel listening that I haven't heard any consumer level receiver match.