whats a good 2ch amp to supplement a receiver

[mtrycrafts]

It's an educated guess based on the weight of the units/size of the heat sinks. I would think running the Yamaha at full bore would trip the protection circuit after a few songs, not hours at levels just below clipping.

FTC has rules on continuous power ratings, RMS. It is continuous, not 1 minutes, or 2 songs.

Try running each amp to some 4 ohm, 85dB towers, and time would most likely be of concern comparing the Yamaha and McIntosh.


Now you are changing the test conditions. Maybe the Yam is not rated for 4 ohm load continuous RMS power. If it is, then go for that too, don't speculate.


I was simply providing an example why one amp would differ from another with the same wattage rating.

Yes, you were. But how is it relevant to anything at home? Do you run your system at full power, that is constant full RMS power out? Where do you live? Can you still hear anything?

So, it has no real bearing on the case, does it. Just like the 'red line' car analogy. But, perhaps some may drive their stick shift at red line in 1st gear all day long, who knows.

I can't speculate how large people's listening rooms are, nor their listening tastes.


Then why speculate at all. Ask them about such details.

I listen to my system quite loud - not rock concert levels, but do enjoy the slam of a good bass drum,


So then, you don't use full power continuously. Your example has little meaning then.


something very hard to obtain with my 3805 and RTi10's compared to my audio system in my truck (even with a 12" HT sub). *A lot of that has to do with the spl/Hz rating of the speakers, as does the size of the listening environment*

Home subs usually are powered. I don't see this comparison.

A guy over at the AVS forum asked if a mid level receiver would power his Polk CSi5, RTi12's (front), and RTi10's (rear) in a very large room. I would be much more comfortable recommending he obtain either a flagship unit, or a Yamaha 2500 with at least a two channel amp (like the McIntosh) to take the load off his receiver.


Before he even tries his receiver? Maybe he sits close to his speakers, maybe he doesn't blasts his as loud as you do, lots of maybe. The Polk is an 8 ohm speaker and about 90 dB sensitivity. Multiple speakers will have more spl combined and won't need the volume so high to get that high spl. Each speaker and amp adds another 6 dB spl.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Look for 2 channel Yamaha MX series amps on eBay, very nice sound and good power rating.

Haven't see you post for a long while. Where have you been?

 

[mike c]

buying used is my last priority ... (besides the fact, our used market is not as efficient as ebay)
i prefer cheap and new OR not buy it at all
ive only bought used once and that person was a friend. i bought his pair of 8" rockford fosgate "the punch" car subwoofers.

 

[MDS]

I'm pretty sure the FTC requirement for an RMS rating is that the receiver is able to produce that power for 20 minutes. But as we've debated over and over that is not all channels driven - it is two channels. There is another requirement that I think is 2 channels driven plus each of the other channels driven at 1/8 the rated power, but I'm not sure if the same 20 minute requirement holds there as well.

 

[mtrycrafts]

There is another requirement that I think is 2 channels driven plus each of the other channels driven at 1/8 the rated power, but I'm not sure if the same 20 minute requirement holds there as well.

If I remember Clint correctly, this is a UL requirement for power consumption of the component.

 

[PENG]

If I remember Clint correctly, this is a UL requirement for power consumption of the component.

That would make sense. For power consumption, one shouldn't have to assume all channels driven and all at maximum power. Look at those stickers on fridges and washers. Everyone wants to see it lower, so it makes sense for UL to mandate manufacturers to follow a standard for reporting power consumption.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I was simply providing an example why one amp would differ from another with the same wattage rating.

Yes, you were. But how is it relevant to anything at home? Do you run your system at full power, that is constant full RMS power out? Where do you live? Can you still hear anything?

I may, may not. I may live on a 20 acre farm. I can still hear the wife yelling. Does that count?

I can't speculate how large people's listening rooms are, nor their listening tastes.

Then why speculate at all. Ask them about such details.

I always ask. But whats the harm in speculating before finally asking the question. In science, educated guesses aren't fact until proven. But they do hold some water. So lets call it "educated speculating."

I listen to my system quite loud - not rock concert levels, but do enjoy the slam of a good bass drum

So then, you don't use full power continuously. Your example has little meaning then.

The duration of peaks and the level of the noise floor is where you'll find the difference between a 120watt McIntosh and a 120watt Yamaha 7 channel receiver - not to mention how long each unit runs at high spls. I just don't see how you can compare the two.

something very hard to obtain with my 3805 and RTi10's compared to my audio system in my truck (even with a 12" HT sub). *A lot of that has to do with the spl/Hz rating of the speakers, as does the size of the listening environment*

Home subs usually are powered. I don't see this comparison.

Because you didn't ask. The two subs in my truck are also powered by a dedicated amp - a very powerful one BTW.

A guy over at the AVS forum asked if a mid level receiver would power his Polk CSi5, RTi12's (front), and RTi10's (rear) in a very large room. I would be much more comfortable recommending he obtain either a flagship unit, or a Yamaha 2500 with at least a two channel amp (like the McIntosh) to take the load off his receiver.

Before he even tries his receiver? Maybe he sits close to his speakers, maybe he doesn't blasts his as loud as you do, lots of maybe. The Polk is an 8 ohm speaker and about 90 dB sensitivity. Multiple speakers will have more spl combined and won't need the volume so high to get that high spl. Each speaker and amp adds another 6 dB spl.

I can comment to him because I own these Polks and we have similar sized rooms. If in fact he doesn't enjoy listening to music/movies at levels I do, perhaps he could have saved a few thousand dollars purchasing speakers that don't require the amplification needed to obtain these lower levels he enjoys. You really need to hear the lack of bass in these RTi's with a midlevel receiver like the Denon 3805 before telling him it's ok to buy a similar receiver to drive 4 RTi towers.

He's a big boy, he can disagree with me if he wants. But at least he's talking to someone who owns and has experience with the same product.

BTW, I always enjoy your curve balls.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I may, may not. I may live on a 20 acre farm. I can still hear the wife yelling. Does that count?

Yes, for you,

But is that yelling next to you or from the far corner of the farm



I always ask. But whats the harm in speculating before finally asking the question. In science, educated guesses aren't fact until proven. But they do hold some water. So lets call it "educated speculating."

OK, educated speculations



The duration of peaks and the level of the noise floor is where you'll find the difference between a 120watt McIntosh and a 120watt Yamaha 7 channel receiver - not to mention how long each unit runs at high spls. I just don't see how you can compare the two.

We can compare them by establishing a testing protocol and see which one is better. The testing protocol may not be realistic, reflecting real use conditions, but we can test them equally for anything, right?
Now, if we want to compare them using established FTC rules, that can be done too and see which one is better.

Then, we can also do a realistic DBT listening test as well


If in fact he doesn't enjoy listening to music/movies at levels I do, perhaps he could have saved a few thousand dollars purchasing speakers that don't require the amplification needed to obtain these lower levels he enjoys.

Maybe he likes these speakers no matter what. And I thought we discussed these speakers impedance and sensitivity, not a difficult load, certainly not a 4 ohm speaker,


You really need to hear the lack of bass in these RTi's with a midlevel receiver like the Denon 3805 before telling him it's ok to buy a similar receiver to drive 4 RTi towers.

Maybe he needs a good sub as well.



BTW, I always enjoy your curve balls.


Keeps you from getting bored.

 

[sdy284]

I'm in the same boat...I'm looking to spend around $400-500 on an amp to power my Alpha 50's & I really don't know what to look for. Any suggestions?

 

[mike c]

I'm in the same boat...I'm looking to spend around $400-500 on an amp to power my Alpha 50's & I really don't know what to look for. Any suggestions?

were you using your HK AVR230 before? why are you buying a new amp? was it weak?

 

[sdy284]

were you using your HK AVR230 before? why are you buying a new amp? was it weak?

Yes, i was using my 230 & I'm looking into a new amp to get better sound for when i listen to music. I guess you could say its "weak" for pushing my mains to the level that i listen to music @

 

[9f9c7z]

Dave - I was just looking at the Parasound 2125 ($700). Would it be a better choice, or is the price diff enough to make the 275 ($500) more desirable? And if you know, how do either of those Parasound “Classic” amplfrs compare to the Parasound Halo A23 amplfr ($850)? Note: prices listed are MSRP – good luck trying to buy Parasound below MSRP. If sales tax is a concern, an “authorized” online retailer for Parasound is www.audioadvisor.com

Jaxvon – I have no experience with the QSC amplfrs. What I have read on other forums is consistent complaints about fan noise. Maybe a diff QSC product line than you are referring to?

Mtrycrafts & Peng – UL doesn’t care about pwr consumption unless it is a gov’t regulated issue. Heat (potential for fire), EM radiation (FCC stds are mandated), and containment if there is a fire are issues. Think “safety” and work backward from there. In general, product performance/efficiency/function isn’t a UL category for testing unless it is related to a safety issue.

 

[jaxvon]

QSC makes great amps, but yes, they all have fans and for certain applications this would not be good. I know Behringer makes an inexpensive, fanless amp that would also work well.

 

[PENG]

Mtrycrafts & Peng – UL doesn’t care about pwr consumption unless it is a gov’t regulated issue. Heat (potential for fire), EM radiation (FCC stds are mandated), and containment if there is a fire are issues. Think “safety” and work backward from there. In general, product performance/efficiency/function isn’t a UL category for testing unless it is related to a safety issue.

?? I hope I know what UL cares, but thanks anyway for telling me...

 

[mtrycrafts]

Mtrycrafts & Peng – UL doesn’t care about pwr consumption unless it is a gov’t regulated issue. Heat (potential for fire), EM radiation (FCC stds are mandated), and containment if there is a fire are issues. Think “safety” and work backward from there. In general, product performance/efficiency/function isn’t a UL category for testing unless it is related to a safety issue.

Well, how much power it draws is a safety issue, or the fuse size.

Maybe Clint knows where that comes from for sure.

 

[mike c]

As MDS mentions, yes, you have it right. But, if you go this route, make sure that you get substantially more power in the new amp otherwise, why make a change???

how much is substantial? assuming my yamy1500 churns out 120-140 2channels ...
how big of an amp do i need? rotel RB1070 130w? rotel RB1080 200w? (examples only)

cheap= ballpark of 500USD?

 

[mtrycrafts]

how much is substantial? assuming my yamy1500 churns out 120-140 2channels ...
how big of an amp do i need? rotel RB1070 130w? rotel RB1080 200w? (examples only)

cheap= ballpark of 500USD?

I'd say at least twice the power minimum That is 3dB spl. Why spend all that extra for no gain- 130 watts- to minimal gain, 150watts.