What Speakers for 4000 Square Foot Exotic Auto and Motorcycle Warehouse

jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
Now we're getting somewhere!

I have a few more questions to help clarify the situation:

Is the space divided into three rooms, or just three areas that are all in the main space?

Do you have any sort of budget laid out for the A/V stuff? If nothing specific, a price ceiling?


If you have 3 rooms that are separated by drywall and a large budget, the sky is the limit with this system. For a basic setup, you could probably do it yourself. But if you wanted something that will make jaws drop (like the cars in the next room ;) ), you should look at contacting an installer. If you went all out, you could have everything fully automated: lights, sound, TV, projector (hey, this would be awesome for watching the game in HD), and have it all controlled with a touchscreen remote. If you went for the automated system, you could set up different zones where you could have different audio and/or video feeds. Send the same music everywhere, or something different in every zone. Same with video. The room situation also affords you the ability to get good, deep, and strong bass with a reasonably priced subwoofer.

On a side note, if you're still in the construction phase, I would build a double-thick wall with 2x6 studs, double drywall, and mineral wool fill between the shop and the bar. This will ensure, along with a thick storm door, that the shop noise does not infect the party next door.
 
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maytagman

Audioholic Intern
I have much more pro audio experience than I do HT experience. I used to rent rigs before I Had the cabbage to buy my own, so I've used quite a few brands and model levels. So far I've had the pleasure of using... JBL EON 10's, Mackie active 15's, These giant EV passive injection molded cabinets (really radical looking, easy to pick out of their model lineup im sure) some Pioneer cabs, and some JBL 15's from the M-Pro lineup. God knows what other ones have passed through my hands.

I'd definetly say pro audio is the way to go if you want to fill that space. If you want a passive system with an amp rack, I'd say go with the offerings from JBL or EV, both are excellent products and you'll struggle between the two. Crown, QSC, Crest, Carvin amps are all built like rocks. If you want an active solution, the Mackies hands down. You will see all the pros and live acts using them, and while thats not a reason to buy them alone, the sound is. The components are a bit more expensive but the ruggedness and gigability is unparalleled. As far as acoustics and how many/where speakers should go, that's really up to you and your room's shape.

Here'd be my humble suggestion. Most music stores which stock pro audio around you probably rent PA rigs out. I would HIGHLY suggest sampling a few of these systems, but keeping in mind they've probably been used and abused. Even so, all the cabs I used from the above companies were too, and sounded great. Just beware of blown crossover sections or crushed tweeters before you make a last choice. A full rental rig shouldnt cost more than $200 for the day. As for retailers you pretty much owe yourself to visit the 'axis of evil' I call it, Music123.com, Americanmusical.com, Musiciansfriend.com, Zzounds/harmonycentral. Also, 123dj.com often has blowout or package deals that are decent to ridiculous in savings. Check your local boys too, and if you really enjoy your rental rig, offer to buy it. Quite often they'll let you.

I'm no expert but these are the things I've learned after blowing way too much money the first time skimping on components!
 
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Loudandproud

Enthusiast
Global Answers to questions

Wow, lots of input, I'll try to answer all:

JAXVON - No, its not three separate rooms, Its one room (50' X 80') divided into three sections. I attached a rough drawing of the space.

The yellow highlighted area is where all the restoration work will occur. It will have the car/motorcycle lift(s), benches, sinks, part sandblaster, air compressor, rack shelving etc. It will also have a concrete painted floor.

The green highlighted area is where the bar, plasma tv (or projection - not sure), seating, and yes, BABCOCK, the stripper platform and pole - unless you find that offense. That area will be carpeted.

The balance of the space will be for car/motorcycle storage. That area will be carpeted as well.

I would like the best (cleanest) sound in the yellow work area. I would like speakers for the big tv/projection/bar area and finally speakers to fill the car/motorcycle storage area. I would like all the speakers to be able to play together for music or play together off the TV.

Hope that helps. I do really appreciate you help. I did meet with a "professional" installer, but all they wanted to do was sell me Paradigm speakers and a $10,000 projecter (I guess they saw the Ferraris and Vincent motorcycles and assumed I was a dumb ****).

Thanks to all.

LOUD&PROUD
Seattle, WA, USA
 
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Loudandproud

Enthusiast
drawing of 4000 square foot warehouse space

Tried to upload the drawing but I am limited to 100KB and even if I compress the file I'm at 193KB.

My e-mail address is (taken out as advised - good point GREENJELLY)

I can e-mail you the drawing if it helps.

Thanks to all.

LOUD&PROUD
Seattle, WA, USA
 
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Loudandproud

Enthusiast
What about the Mackie S408 Precision Speakers

Yes, I've looked at the Danley Sound labs stuff. Quite nice.

Someone suggested the Mackie S408 Precision Speakers. They stated that this speaker fills an area well because of it's shape (curved). They stated that most box speakers are great when you are directly in front of them, but the sound quality falls off quickly as you move to the sides.

Any truth in that?

LOUD&PROUD
Seattle, WA, USA
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
Loudandproud said:
They stated that most box speakers are great when you are directly in front of them, but the sound quality falls off quickly as you move to the sides.

Any truth in that?
Yes. It's call off-axis response (which varies speaker to speaker). I think you will be hard-pressed to "fill" the space with full frequency (accurate) sound without many (strategically-placed) speakers as already suggested. Cheers.
 
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GreenJelly

Banned
Im sorry to say this, but I would recommend a mixture of speakers depending on your needs.

Simply put, you dont want a wall of sound in a store or warehouse. They generally are not good for this sort of applications.

You need to state more from what you expect from the system. Do you want to have concert sound with loud single source, or do you want to fill the place up with music that isnt so loud that you cant talk to your customers.

Then comes cost, how much are you willing to spend?

We are jumping to to many conclusions, and need to help you with a system that will fill the store/warehouse with the type of music and sound you want.

From what I read you need a set of inwall speakers (eaks, I cant beleive I just said that)... these go in the areas where you want to be able to talk in, and are in the large areas that are not ment for viewing your projection and strippers:)

Then you need a pair of high end speakers, and yes, I would say you need big subs with thoose speakers. Of course we are NOT talking about your adverage home audio system, though some components can come from this market.

Basically I am talking about a intercom system, except one that pushes out good sound, instead of the type your boss pages you on right before you get fired.

The best solutions will come from your local highend music store. Tell them that you need a setup, bring them down to your work.. show them what and where things are, and what you need. Talk about price, and installation. Try to do the installation yourself, and avoid the high end speaker wire talk. Tell them to just put some nice wire in there, something on the order of a LAMP CORD!

Other then that, have them do their recommendations. Get a second opinion, and buy the equipment. If you want to install it yourself, feel free too. Its not rocket science, though they will make it out to be. They do have experiance though, so if your on rocky ground go with the instillation.

Expect to spend some money... Dont cheap out, but dont go way overboard. Make sure the system will work and sound GREAT at low levels. so that you can talk to your customers, yet hear every vibration of every note of the instruments.

Mike

PS, a single pair of speakers is NOT going to meet your needs, and a pair of speakers for High Quality speakers (non-monitors) should NOT cost you more then 3-4K. You just wont have people in your place that can tell the difference. Hell most of them are already hard of hearing because they been riding motorcycles.

In wall speakers stink generally, so dont expect amazing sound. But they are great for display rooms, offices, etc. You just dont need wires and speakers sitting around. On top of it, they will get the ship kicked out of them when you do work. I can just see one of your mechanics squezing behind a pair of Thiels 3.5s, and tripping on the wire... thus tipping over the speaker or ripping out the cords/connections. Then comes the tools hes holding, which will tear out the crap of them.

Another option would be to put speakers in the corners of these rooms. I love Thiels, and I feel they work GREAT in large spaces. The 3.5 series would be perfect for putting in corners, and they will give you EVERYTHING you would ever need. You dont want a sub in the display rooms, cause it may cause all the glass and parts to rattle... not good...

As far as a party room, then you need to go monitors, or again high end speakers. But here you DEFINATELY need BASS... And lots of it... When it Thumps, your Ferrari in the next room should have its alarm triggered.

Of course, nothing would look as good as these next to a Ferrari
http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.models/label/Model Nautilus

Mike
 
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Nick250

Audioholic Samurai
Loudandproud said:
(I guess they saw the Ferraris and Vincent motorcycles and assumed I was a dumb ****).
Thanks to all.
LOUD&PROUD
Seattle, WA, USA
Vincent motorcycles? You have my attention. A Black Lightening or Black Shadow perhaps? All collectors have a Ferrari or two, but Vincent motorcycles, my guess is not that many. And a guess is what it is. And add one of the original Ford GT40's to my list as well and I think I could be happy with just those two in my collection. End of thread hijack.

Nick
 
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jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
Loudandproud said:
Tried to upload the drawing but I am limited to 100KB and even if I compress the file I'm at 193KB.

My e-mail address is edit

I can e-mail you the drawing if it helps.

Thanks to all.

LOUD&PROUD
Seattle, WA, USA
The easiest way to share photos is with a free account on a site like Flickr, Photobucket, or WebShots. You can upload your photo to there and then past a link to it here. If you want, you can post the url of the photo between IMG tags and it will appear in the body of your post.

In a way, it saddens me that you don't have three separate rooms (I was getting all sorts of evil ideas), but now at least the rest of us have a better idea of what you're working with. I'll make reccommendations in another post when I have more time.
 
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GreenJelly

Banned
In regards to posting your email. Let me give you a hint...

DONT POST YOUR EMAIL ON PUBLIC FORUMS!

Now your going to get LOTS of SPAM

instead post your email like this Imnotgoingtogetspam-<(at)>-poopers.com

that way people can take out the -<(at)>- and email you, but the spam bots wont recognize it as a email.

Mike
 
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Loudandproud

Enthusiast
Here is the drawing of the warehouse space on Webshots.com

 
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Loudandproud

Enthusiast
JAXVON, Can you remove my e-mail address in your quote section?

JAXVON,

Can you remove my e-mail address in the quote section of your last response? I deleted it from my response, however, I can't edit your responses.

Someone stated that I should not provide my e-mail in a forum, and I guess I understand that concern.

Thanks.

LOUD&PROUD
Seattle, WA, USA
 
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GreenJelly

Banned
Just a helpfull hint from a net nerd like myself.

If you havent done so already... Create two accounts... One for use on the internet, and one for all your clients, family and friends. Many websites that you register will sell thoose lists to spammers. When the spam gets heavy, you just switch your public account:)

Never post your email on a website, unless you are willing to deal with spam. Most websites have feedback forms that you fill out. So when you hit a contact us, instead of getting a email, you get a Form that you fill out. I build computer information systems, so its my job, and my personal passion to know this stuff. When you registered for this site, they had a messy image with letters and numbers that you were suppose to fill out with what it says. Thats to stop people from auto filling out the applications and either spamming the forums, or PM all the people on the site.


Mike
 

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