What should I upgrade next?

[tjoseph2000]

Hi All,

I'm a longtime lurker, and first time poster. I am a home theater novice, and have been slowly building my system for about 10 years with an upgrade every year or two. I spent quite a bit last year on the AVR and subs, and am now at the point where I am not sure what to upgrade next. My budget is $1500. I have the following set up in a 5.2.4 system, and would love recommendations on what you would do to improve:

- Marantz SR6014 AVR
- Anthem MCA 525 Amp (225 wpc x 5 channels) - connected to the front 3 and 2 rear surrounds
- Four B&W 684 S2 tower speakers used as fronts and rear surround, four B&W CCM663 ceiling speakers, and a B&W CC6 S2 center channel
- Two SVS SB-2000 Pro subs
- Samsung LG C9 OLED television

It's all patched together with various Blue Jeans cables and plugged into a panamax line conditioner / surge protector. My theater room is roughly 20 ft x 12 ft with 9 ft ceilings. The current system sounds amazing with action films, and rock and roll music. Baby Driver is an especially fun show to watch. The only nit I have is that it is admittedly bass heavy, and the center channel does not always do a great job with dialogue (it can be muddy or indiscernible at times -- I literally had to watch Fury Road with the subtitles on). It gets plenty loud for me.

I've been thinking of upgrading the fronts and center, but am concerned with the timbre match to the rest of the system. I might be overthinking that. I fear my speakers are the current weak link, but to do it justice I think I am going to have to spend more than I can afford. Thanks for any guidance you can offer.

TJ

 

[lovinthehd]

Seems to be a fairly complete setup and for the money doubt you'd be but making a lateral move on front speakers. Sometimes its more a mix issue with dialog, been a while but think Fury Road was one of those. Maybe buy some more content to watch/listen to?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

To be honest, for me the low hanging fruit are the SB2k’s. I would think they’d be at their limit when trying to keep up with the B&W’s. FWIW I do have experience with the SB2k so I’m aware of its capabilities. Ime, as nice as they are, they just aren’t capable of powerful deep bass output. I know a guy who had a pair in his system as a test, and they were flat to 10hz, but at very low output levels. Great “little” subs. Just not super powerful. I think you just got them not too long ago and SVS offers a really nice trade up program. They have the pc/pb2000 for 699 right now. I would personally start there with a pair.

Funny, I just watched MMFR the other day too. Dialogue can be hard to understand in some scenes but overall I don’t have problems, and find it to be a very active, fun soundtrack. Is it possible that your center is in a bad location? If it’s on a shelf for example. Make sure it’s moved all the way to the edge and not all the way back. Could be just time for a new one.

 

[tjoseph2000]

To be honest, for me the low hanging fruit are the SB2k’s.
...
Is it possible that your center is in a bad location? If it’s on a shelf for example. Make sure it’s moved all the way to the edge and not all the way back. Could be just time for a new one.

Thanks! Yes, I got the SB2k's in late January. I had a single sub (Epik Legend) and the SB2k was the upgrade. They are not bad as a pair, but I will check out the trade up program.

Yes, on the center channel speaker - it is on top of a BDI Corridor 8179 console -- just below ear level when I am sitting in my viewing chair. I'll play with location, as it is about 2 inches from the wall right now (largely to hide cables). Thanks again!

 

[SimplyEpic]

Just a thought but have you done anything with Audyssey or the app for room correction for $20? Not sure how much of a difference it would make but if it is bass heavy sounds like some of the settings may be a bit off. From the setup you have I don't think it would make a huge difference but every little bit counts.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Thanks! Yes, I got the SB2k's in late January. I had a single sub (Epik Legend) and the SB2k was the upgrade. They are not bad as a pair, but I will check out the trade up program.

Yes, on the center channel speaker - it is on top of a BDI Corridor 8179 console -- just below ear level when I am sitting in my viewing chair. I'll play with location, as it is about 2 inches from the wall right now (largely to hide cables). Thanks again!

Yeah, for what they are, they do sound really nice. But I’m very confident that if you’re watching movies like MMFR all the time, you need more. Lol
Definitely try moving the CC forward, and try tilting it up towards your ears. Some people bump the CC up a couple few dB. I personally don’t like that, but it can help. Or get a new one!

 

[MalVeauX]

Hi TJ,

Do you have a microphone and can you measure frequency/room response? I would start there. Upgrading speakers can often not do much if the room itself is not being considered, especially with bass. I would want to see some measurements before spending $1500 blindly.

Otherwise, anecdotally, what are you looking for in an upgrade at the moment?

Very best,

 

[tjoseph2000]

Just a thought but have you done anything with Audyssey or the app for room correction for $20? Not sure how much of a difference it would make but if it is bass heavy sounds like some of the settings may be a bit off. From the setup you have I don't think it would make a huge difference but every little bit counts.

Yes, I have done the Audyssey setup with the app. Also had a buddy who is a sound tech come in and play with a few things when setting up the subs. It helped at the time. In full disclosure, the setup is probably great for 90% of the population. This is just kind of my hobby, or addiction as my wife says, and I am just chasing better and clearer sound.

 

[tjoseph2000]

Hi TJ,

Do you have a microphone and can you measure frequency/room response? I would start there. Upgrading speakers can often not do much if the room itself is not being considered, especially with bass. I would want to see some measurements before spending $1500 blindly.

Otherwise, anecdotally, what are you looking for in an upgrade at the moment?

Very best,

Thanks - I do not have a high end mic and measurement tools (outside of the Audyssey MultEQ app, if that is acceptable), but may have access through a friend who is a sound tech. I will check in and see if I can post that in the next week or so.

I'm an accountant in my day job, and I know enough knowledge in the realm of frequencies to be dangerous, but I'll try to describe the sound I am hearing and trying to improve:

1) As mentioned above, in home theater usage I find that dialogue can often be muddy or muffled, or gets overpowered by the left/right and surround speakers. It's not terrible, but it is often enough that it is distracting.

2) Music seems "heavy" on the lower frequencies and flat. The best I can describe this is that when I first began this quest for sound (mid-90s) I inherited some used Klipsch (Cornwall?) speakers that I connected to an even older Yamaha amp and receiver I bought used. To my untrained ear that sounded "clean" and I swear the full spectrum of instruments filled the room much more distinctly when listening to music like Pink Floyd, Steely Dan, or various Celtic music I listen to. I know technically the B&W's have a a much wider frequency band than the old Klipsch, and my current setup powers them fine, so this is totally subjective and is likely biased. It just sounds now like the instruments are not as distinct, and while loudness is not an issue, I cannot hear the higher ranges as cleanly as I did before and the music tilts toward bass and low-midrange, and the upper frequencies seem really subdued.

That's the best I can describe it - writing this I wonder if my hearing has changed over 25 years and it is me, and not the speakers, and I also see the benefit of doing a more rigorous technical analysis.

I will come back in a week or two once I get the spectrum frequency analysis of the room, and also post pictures of the room.

Thanks for the help!

TJ

 

[Movie2099]

Thanks - I do not have a high end mic and measurement tools (outside of the Audyssey MultEQ app, if that is acceptable), but may have access through a friend who is a sound tech. I will check in and see if I can post that in the next week or so.

I'm an accountant in my day job, and I know enough knowledge in the realm of frequencies to be dangerous, but I'll try to describe the sound I am hearing and trying to improve:

1) As mentioned above, in home theater usage I find that dialogue can often be muddy or muffled, or gets overpowered by the left/right and surround speakers. It's not terrible, but it is often enough that it is distracting.

2) Music seems "heavy" on the lower frequencies and flat. The best I can describe this is that when I first began this quest for sound (mid-90s) I inherited some used Klipsch (Cornwall?) speakers that I connected to an even older Yamaha amp and receiver I bought used. To my untrained ear that sounded "clean" and I swear the full spectrum of instruments filled the room much more distinctly when listening to music like Pink Floyd, Steely Dan, or various Celtic music I listen to. I know technically the B&W's have a a much wider frequency band than the old Klipsch, and my current setup powers them fine, so this is totally subjective and is likely biased. It just sounds now like the instruments are not as distinct, and while loudness is not an issue, I cannot hear the higher ranges as cleanly as I did before and the music tilts toward bass and low-midrange, and the upper frequencies seem really subdued.

That's the best I can describe it - writing this I wonder if my hearing has changed over 25 years and it is me, and not the speakers, and I also see the benefit of doing a more rigorous technical analysis.

I will come back in a week or two once I get the spectrum frequency analysis of the room, and also post pictures of the room.

Thanks for the help!

TJ

what do you have your speakers set to in your AVR? If your L/R are set way higher than your center channel it will sound off.

I think you have a pretty solid setup. You would have to increase your total budget about another $6000 to step up to the B&W 702 S2's. Those would be a solid upgrade from what you have now. Assuming you stick with B&W. There are definitely other options out there that wouldn't cost as much, If you like B&W you know you'll have to spend a good chunk of change.

 

[ryanosaur]

Can you post a photo or two of your front setup?
Where are your subs and speakers placed? How far from the walls, corners, etc?
Though I just read through this again, did I miss your room size (LxWxH; is it an open or closed room) and how far back you sit? Is your LP close to a wall?

Though many like B&W, I am not one. I’m not going to urge you to upgrade, yet, without trying some others things first. But if upgrading is in order, it will likely take close to 3K or so to avoid a lateral move. I put the number there not to scare you, but to quantify replacing your front 3 speakers with a worthy upgrade....

But first, the free stuff to see if we can get you better without spending much, if any, money.
Let us know the answers to those questions, please.

Cheers!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yeah. Pics. Pics are helpful!!!