selkec

selkec

Audioholic
I just got new rtia9's.Currently running off an emotiva xpa3. I want to switch it to the center and surrounds and get maybe 2 pro amps or something atleast 5oo to 1000 watts for them. What do you all think. Any ideas. I had emotiva xpa-1's and they sounded great and were very dynamic but they are 90 lbs and take up alot of room. ANy suggestions would be great. Thanks guys.
 
Knucklehead90

Knucklehead90

Audioholic
If you get a pro amp be prepared to put up with a lot of fan noise with some models like the Behringer Euro series. I have the EP1500 driving a couple of subs. I had to 'park' it until I could get a slower fan. I have no cooling problems and its very quiet now.
For lots of power the Behringer EP2500 is very popular - the EP1500 may be all you need though. The a500 isn't worth looking at IMO. I've heard good and bad about Pyle Pro - usual complaint is their rated power vs actual performance.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
The a500 isn't worth looking at IMO.
I've not had any issues with mine, but there is a distortion issue with some at 3khz. Still it would be a better buy than Pyle. My first recommendations are the Yamaha pro amps. Lots of power no fan noise.
 
ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
The fan swap for the 2500 takes about 5 minutes and cost 8 bucks. I can put my ear right up to mine and it is about silent and still runs cool.
 
njedpx3

njedpx3

Audioholic General
budget?

McIntosh is great if you have the $$$

Run the RTti A9s off of this MC2KW

Good Luck!

Forest Man
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
The fan swap for the 2500 takes about 5 minutes and cost 8 bucks. I can put my ear right up to mine and it is about silent and still runs cool.
Are we sure that it's not your ears. I've heard about what the Dawg crusher can do. Somehow I don't think fan noise is a problem when you got 120 clean spl piping. :D

Still that's good to know. I'm sure it's an easy swap too.
 
WaynePflughaupt

WaynePflughaupt

Audioholic Samurai
I want to switch it to the center and surrounds and get maybe 2 pro amps or something atleast 5oo to 1000 watts for them.
It’s not so critical for your subs, but you have to be careful choosing a pro amp for your main channels. If its input sensitivity is too high, you won’t be able to drive it to maximum output without an outboard boosting device. That’s no big deal for subs, but it just adds another piece to the signal chain, not to mention they can add noise to the mains. It makes more sense to choose your amp carefully and match its output voltage to the amp’s sensitivity voltage, so you won’t need an outboard boost.

An amp with sensitivity in the .775 – 1.0 vRMS range should be no problem, as long as your receiver has that much output. The problem you’re facing is that there is no published output voltage spec for your Elite receiver. However, most receivers have at least 1 vRMS output, so it’s probably best to play it safe and get an amp with sensitivity in that range.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 
Last edited by a moderator:
selkec

selkec

Audioholic
thanks for all the input guys. Maybe Ill stay away from pro audio. It just seems more bang for your buck. I might just get 2 xpa-1's again. Its just so much space. I had looked at the behringers. Maybe ill give them a try and do the fan mod. i wonder if they would be much better than my emo xpa3. I have heard my rtia9's can take alot of power to come alive. Not that they are not with the emo, but you know. Always wanting more. :p
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
It’s not so critical for your subs, but you have to be careful choosing a pro amp for your main channels. If its input sensitivity is too high, you won’t be able to drive it to maximum output without an outboard boosting device. That’s no big deal for subs, but it just adds another piece to the signal chain, not to mention they can add noise to the mains. It makes more sense to choose your amp carefully and match its output voltage to the amp’s sensitivity voltage, so you won’t need an outboard boost.

An amp with sensitivity in the .775 – 1.0 vRMS range should be no problem, as long as your receiver has that much output. The problem you’re facing is that there is no published output voltage spec for your Elite receiver. However, most receivers have at least 1 vRMS output, so it’s probably best to play it safe and get an amp with sensitivity in that range.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
I would change this from "If its input sensitivity is too high, you won’t be able to drive it to maximum output without an outboard boosting device." to 'If the required input voltage is too high...'. This would mean that the input sensitivity is too low, not too high. High sensitivity would mean that it needs less input voltage to develop full output.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
WaynePflughaupt

WaynePflughaupt

Audioholic Samurai
Good point, I had never thought of if that way. Difficult to Google and come up with much about this (most of what comes back pertains to speaker sensitivity), but I did dig this up, which indicates that I was stating it properly:

A common question is "can this preamp drive a power amp?" The answer is that you need to compare the output level of the specific preamp against the input sensitivity rating of the specific power amp. The specs for both devices must be examined on a case-by-case basis, and must be compatible with each other. ...

Many pedal preamps, onboard bass pre's, and older rackmount pre's do not put out a signal strong enough to drive a power amp with a 1.25V rating. If you try a certain preamp and it sounds weak, that's probably the reason. Similarly, if you get great sound from your preamp driving one power amp, and weak sound with the same pre driving a different power amp, the problem is not that the second power amp has weak tone! This is a very common misunderstanding. The real problem is usually that the second power amp had an input sensitivity that was too high to be driven well by your preamp.
Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 
Last edited by a moderator:
walter duque

walter duque

Audioholic Samurai
AB International has been around for many years. I did own a few (3) in the past which I just sold recently to a friend. Should be one to consider if budged allows. It's a matter of fact one of my Cinepro amps is a rebaged AB-Amp.
http://www.abamps.com/
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Good point, I had never thought of if that way. Difficult to Google and come up with much about this (most of what comes back pertains to speaker sensitivity), but I did dig this up, which indicates that I was stating it properly:



Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
It depends on the original purpose of the amp. It used to be that line level source devices for Pro Audio use usually went to 0VU and that's it, often with a fixed output level. The preamp would provide enough output to satisfy the power amp's sensitivity (for full output) and the power amp had no sensitivity controls. Then, people began to mix & match pro and consumer grade equipment and the standards became blurred, with "Pro-sumer" equipment coming out with RCA and TRS input/output jacks instead of XLR. In the original form, pro audio equipment was clean, quiet and it reached full power with no problem because it was designed to work together.

Car audio became increasingly attracted to their beloved dB contests and while 1+V output from a head unit was fine when people just wanted a good sounding stereo, they decided that 2V was better because the amp's input sensitivity could be decreased using the control and it would also decrease the noise level. Then, they upped the head unit's output even more and pretty soon, 4V output was hte norm, instead of an extreme. 4V will overdrive most power amp inputs if they're fixed and some won't handle it even if they're variable.

If you want to google audio amp specs, look for NAB (National Association of Broadcasters) data. AES also should have info. Most amplifiers include the input voltage needed to develop rated output.

With all of the free software out there (TrueRTA is one of them), I'm surprised more people don't use the oscilloscope function fro setting up their systems. They can measure the output voltage from sources and preamps, then look at the waveform after each processor stage and even the output to the speakers. That way, there's no doubt about whether the system is distorting.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
MidnightSensi

MidnightSensi

Audioholic Samurai
Speaker sensitivity describes how loudly a speaker will play given a certain voltage; measured in decibels relative to a given voltage and measuring distance (typically 2.83V and 1m). It's actually closer to an 'efficiency' than a 'sensitivity'

Input sensitivity is the amount of voltage coming INTO the amplifier. The higher it is, the faster the amplifier can drive to full power. Amps have a fixed gain, so raising or lowering the input sensitivity affects how the power multiples. If it is so low that when multiplied by the gain of the amplifier it doesn't reach full power, then the input sensitivity is too low.
 
Knucklehead90

Knucklehead90

Audioholic
thanks for all the input guys. Maybe Ill stay away from pro audio. It just seems more bang for your buck. I might just get 2 xpa-1's again. Its just so much space. I had looked at the behringers. Maybe ill give them a try and do the fan mod. i wonder if they would be much better than my emo xpa3. I have heard my rtia9's can take alot of power to come alive. Not that they are not with the emo, but you know. Always wanting more. :p
Instead of getting a pair of XPA-1s why not try a pair of XPA-2s? They are bridgeable - Emo rates them into 8 ohms bridged and your Polks are rated 8ohm nominal.

XPA-2s are much more marketable should you decide to sell them.
 
selkec

selkec

Audioholic
have heard my polks can dip much lower than 8 ohms and when the xpa-2 is bridged it is really bad I heard ru go lower than 8 ohms
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
WmAx has suggested the Yamaha's P-Series Pro amps many many times, and if they are good enough for him, they'd be good enough for me, and he states the fans rarely if ever come on....

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/products/power_amps/p7000s/index.html
The build quality is superb. Parts quality used is superb. These are amps worthy of the professional Yamaha label.

The fan... I have no idea how to get it to come on with music. I only managed to get the fans to activate by feeding a speaker very high power with continuous pulsing test signals for 10 minutes straight, using the amplifier near clipping the entire time. When the fan finally activated (it's variable speed), it was at such low RPM that you could not hear it even with the music muted.

I once took the smallest one (P2500S) and wired it up to 2 x 4 Ohm bookshelf speakers with 88dB/2.83v/1meter sensitivity. I played music on them at a SPL of around 95dB(slow time, C weighting) as measured at the listening position for 30 minutes. The fans never activated. In addition, I immediately removed the top cover of the amplifier and measured the temperature at the heatsinks in multiple positions. The temperature was nowhere near the required level to activate the fans (the temperature is specified in the user manual).

These tests were taken with an ambient temperature of about 70-72F degrees in the environment. Obviously, if you are using them in 95 degree temperature environments, you are likely going to have the fans running if you use the amps at moderate SPL levels for extended periods.

These are extremely efficient amplifiers that produce very little heat, on top of the superb build quality and performance. So far they are my favorite amplifier due to this unique combination of features/performance/build quality.

-Chris
 
selkec

selkec

Audioholic
thanks for all the input. So the question now is since you all mentioned voltage. Will the yamaha pro amps go with my pioneer elite?
 

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top