What power amp after aleph 5?

[mrspis]

I have JBL L90 loudspeakers with heavily modified crossovers, Pass Labs Aleph 5, p 1.7 preamp and a 24bit/192khz DAC, all diy made, connected to the PC via optical cable and i listen only to lossless tracks. Also the whole system is XLR connected. Aleph 5 sounds absolutely incredible, wide sound stage, very detailed and natural sound, especialy with L90 Studio Monitors. When i first got it i couldn't stop listening to it, it sounded so good, 2 classes better than Marantz PM 64 mk II that i previously had, which was also a class A amp. It has been more than two years that i have this system, i cant say that it has bored me, but i got used to the sound. So i would like to upgrade, change the sound a little. I was wondering what would be a good upgrade from Aleph 5. I was thinking of Aleph 2, but its basically the same sound with more power and bass. I really like the natural and detailed sound, and big sound stage is important to me because i have a 25kvm room. I'm not really that into power amps, i did a little research, but I'm not sure. It would be nice if the amp would also be in A class and that it could be made diy. Thanks for replay's. Cheers!

 

[mtrycrafts]

... i have a 25kvm room. ...

Not sure at all what this means, thanks.

 

[mrspis]

Sorry, but i don't understand your reply. That link is outdated, all the pictures are gone, so i don't know what it is. The quoted means a room that is a 25 square meter, previously i had a smaller room, size about 15 square meter. The bigger room really brings out the lower end, because of the wave length of lower frequencies. Thanks for reply anyway. Cheers

 

[KEW]

I have JBL L90 loudspeakers with heavily modified crossovers, Pass Labs Aleph 5, p 1.7 preamp and a 24bit/192khz DAC, all diy made, connected to the PC via optical cable and i listen only to lossless tracks. Also the whole system is XLR connected. Aleph 5 sounds absolutely incredible, wide sound stage, very detailed and natural sound, especialy with L90 Studio Monitors. When i first got it i couldn't stop listening to it, it sounded so good, 2 classes better than Marantz PM 64 mk II that i previously had, which was also a class A amp. It has been more than two years that i have this system, i cant say that it has bored me, but i got used to the sound. So i would like to upgrade, change the sound a little. I was wondering what would be a good upgrade from Aleph 5. I was thinking of Aleph 2, but its basically the same sound with more power and bass. I really like the natural and detailed sound, and big sound stage is important to me because i have a 25kvm room. I'm not really that into power amps, i did a little research, but I'm not sure. It would be nice if the amp would also be in A class and that it could be made diy. Thanks for replay's. Cheers!

Speakers are your best bet for changing the sound.

My understanding (by reputation) is Pass labs makes a very capable amplifier. Replacing it with another very capable amplifier is unlikely to make much difference (if any) to the sound. High quality amps all have the same objective of amplifying the signal without adding distortion, and companies have got very good at that. Generally this means make sure it has ample power for your speakers. Assuming it does, you are not going to make an appreciable difference.
Speakers on the other hand, with the requirement for changing electrical signals into mechanical/audio signals are a much more complex task, as witnessed by the vast array of approaches to attempting to make the "perfect speaker".

However, it may be that your speakers sounded better in your old room than in your new room. It sounds like you are very interested in getting the best sound you can, and you did not mention room treatments. You should check out a company like GIK acoustics and let them evaluate your room. This will result in a bigger change in the sound of your system and cost less than changing amps!

Edit: I just looked up the L90 and the specs I found have the low end at 70Hz despite being a 12" woofer!
That is is not very full bass by any standard!
In a smaller room, the room gain might make it passable, but if you've moved to a larger room it is entirely understandable that you would feel your bass is too weak. You have two choices - add a subwoofer, or change speakers!
If you want to stick with old school stereo, you might try a pair of SVS Ultra towers. They go down to 27Hz (which will go yet deeper with the addition of room gain, even in a larger room).
Most importantly, they have a risk-free 45day trial period (they will even pay return shipping if you do not like them).
https://www.svsound.com/products/ultra-tower?gclid=CjwKCAjwos7NBRAWEiwAypNCe6q6aU1wOGBS9XyRIg01HKl0Dp5kKp-Zw3cx2zzK7aNIX-ou-GeJSBoCc_oQAvD_BwE

 

[KEW]

I forgot, you are probably not in the states!
I am not sure what is available to you without knowing where you live, but the problem is that your speakers are not designed to produce full range sound!
This is not unusual with studio monitors. Recording engineers usually have a seperate subwoofer which they turn on or off depending on what they are listening for. Assuming you are music only (not trying to get home theater low frequency effects), you should contact a pro audio store in your area and see what they recommend. Sweetwater, here in the USA is a good resource for such advice.
https://www.sweetwater.com/?campaigntype=paidsearch&campaign=*Sweetwater%20-%20Branded&adgroup=Sweetwater%20-%20Exact&keyword=sweetwater&placement=google&adpos=1t1&creative=219880153620&device=c&matchtype=e&network=g&gclid=CjwKEAjwos7NBRCW0uTH59WPp1ESJADKk0J7XXjpQkx7SFdL70NMfmTp4D8Q8CAwcM9rAq4eDktIdBoCDV_w_wcB

 

[mtrycrafts]

Sorry, but i don't understand your reply. That link is outdated, all the pictures are gone, so i don't know what it is. ...

The link was to my system but it seems the pictures in photobucket is closed and the link to the thread is inactive.

 

[mrspis]

Thanks for reply KEW. I forgot to mention that i am also planing to upgrade my speakers to 4435, but they are very rare, especially in my country. I'm from Serbia by the way. I also forgot to mention that i have Also have a Pioneer S-W1EX Subwoofer from their high end Excellence series. Sub is very well built, it has a separate amp from the sub box and a passive radiator. The sub gives a very tight bass and also goes very low. It fills that gap that L90 have in lower end. Also when i moved to a bigger room, the lower end became more noticeable because of the wave length of lower frequencies. Yes i am a passionate audiophile striving for the best sound possible without spending 20k. As i mentioned, i plan to upgrade, but the speakers are very rare, and to ship from Europe is almost impossible. So i have to wait. On the other hand, there are plenty of amps here on the ads + diy building is utilized very much here. L90 with modified crossovers sound very good, so it will have to do the job with the sub until the speakers appear in the adds, usually once, twice a year. I would like to upgrade the amp until then. Someone suggested me a First Watt F7, but its also Nelson Pass work so i think it will sound similar, also only 25w, that will definitely not be enough to drive 4435 when i get them. My room is acoustically treated by plush curtains for better sound, i plan to put Skyline Diffusers soon. Here is a video of a setup in a previous room, back then i used a modified Marantz CD40 player, also played a flac burned file. The sound is bad because i recorded it with Samsung S3, so there is no bass in the video, but it gives decent vocals. The sub is not turned on because i dint use it for drum and bass, the sound is not linear, L90 can give plenty of bass for dnb bass lines. Even if it is declared to go 70hz on axis, it actually goes down to 35hz +- 5dB, i dint listen that loud so it fills the room with li near bass. About the stores here, there are baerly any, and they usualy sell only new speakers, and not that high end amps. I would like some amp that is diy buildable, because almost all of my system is diy built. Yes Pass labs isa very capable amplifier. But i got used to the sound and would like to change a little, and also upgrade, I'm sure there are amps that can sound a little better, and definitely different. Even though i like neutral sound, maybe some amp that has a little coloration. Thought about tube amps, but they are low on power. A class is not absolutely needed, but would be good. mtrycrafts i cant see the pictures but i will look into the thread, thanks both for reply! Here is the video. Cheers

 

[ski2xblack]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with some previous posters.

That Aleph 5 amp is one of Pass' single ended types, and it's design doesn't adhere to conventional engineering norms but to what Pass feels sounds the most natural (or something to that effect...the user manual reads like a Greatest Hits of Pass' marketing strategies, all about signal paths, minimalist circuits, ear friendly low order harmonic distortion, etc). I haven't heard one, but I have heard other Pass' First Watt amps that are similar, and they do mimic some SET-like qualities...not neutral amps, but very pleasing to the ear.

If I'm right, and given the OP's enjoyment of the Aleph, I think he should keep it, repair it as needed. The supply caps will go south eventually, probably sooner than in other amps, since it's a class A space heater:

I suggest that if the OP gets another amp that it be a more powerful, conventional amp, and not necessarily expensive, so he can listen to it clean when he desires, and can switch to the Aleph for more of that Pass-ified tube like sound when he wants.

 

[Pogre]

You should look into new speakers. A different amp won't make any difference in sq. You said the crossovers are heavily modified? What's the impedance of your speakers now?

 

[ski2xblack]

Pogre, that particular Aleph amp is the sort one could possibly identify in an ABX test. It's not a conventional amplifier.

The OP also mentioned diy, which would be a great option if he wanted to stay in the Pass realm. There are several of the First Watt amps that share the same supply, allowing him to experiment with several different amp stages if he so desires. The First Watt designs would share the peculiarities of the Aleph, to some degree or another, which the OP would probably like. The only downside is that I don't think Pass has anything as powerful as the old Alephs in the current crop of First Watt amps.

The OP's speakers are of the fairly rare (over here) Danish built JBLs. I wouldn't count them out, they're probably quite respectable.

 

[Pogre]

Pogre, that particular Aleph amp is the sort one could possibly identify in an ABX test. It's not a conventional amplifier.

The OP also mentioned diy, which would be a great option if he wanted to stay in the Pass realm. There are several of the First Watt amps that share the same supply, allowing him to experiment with several different amp stages if he so desires. The First Watt designs would share the peculiarities of the Aleph, to some degree or another, which the OP would probably like. The only downside is that I don't think Pass has anything as powerful as the old Alephs in the current crop of First Watt amps.

The OP's speakers are of the fairly rare (over here) Danish built JBLs. I wouldn't count them out, they're probably quite respectable.

Yeah, I saw your post after I typed mine up. I don't know enough about the equipment. There's that assuming again...

I'm not quick to discount JBL.They've caught my attention recently, in fact. I'm still curious about what's been done with the crossovers that are heavily modified. I'm assuming based on op's equipment it's hopefully pro work.

 

[KEW]

Thanks for reply KEW. I forgot to mention that i am also planing to upgrade my speakers to 4435, but they are very rare, especially in my country. I'm from Serbia by the way. I also forgot to mention that i have Also have a Pioneer S-W1EX Subwoofer from their high end Excellence series. Sub is very well built, it has a separate amp from the sub box and a passive radiator. The sub gives a very tight bass and also goes very low. It fills that gap that L90 have in lower end. Also when i moved to a bigger room, the lower end became more noticeable because of the wave length of lower frequencies. Yes i am a passionate audiophile striving for the best sound possible without spending 20k. As i mentioned, i plan to upgrade, but the speakers are very rare, and to ship from Europe is almost impossible. So i have to wait. On the other hand, there are plenty of amps here on the ads + diy building is utilized very much here. L90 with modified crossovers sound very good, so it will have to do the job with the sub until the speakers appear in the adds, usually once, twice a year. I would like to upgrade the amp until then. Someone suggested me a First Watt F7, but its also Nelson Pass work so i think it will sound similar, also only 25w, that will definitely not be enough to drive 4435 when i get them. My room is acoustically treated by plush curtains for better sound, i plan to put Skyline Diffusers soon. Here is a video of a setup in a previous room, back then i used a modified Marantz CD40 player, also played a flac burned file. The sound is bad because i recorded it with Samsung S3, so there is no bass in the video, but it gives decent vocals. The sub is not turned on because i dint use it for drum and bass, the sound is not linear, L90 can give plenty of bass for dnb bass lines. Even if it is declared to go 70hz on axis, it actually goes down to 35hz +- 5dB, i dint listen that loud so it fills the room with li near bass. About the stores here, there are baerly any, and they usualy sell only new speakers, and not that high end amps. I would like some amp that is diy buildable, because almost all of my system is diy built. Yes Pass labs isa very capable amplifier. But i got used to the sound and would like to change a little, and also upgrade, I'm sure there are amps that can sound a little better, and definitely different. Even though i like neutral sound, maybe some amp that has a little coloration. Thought about tube amps, but they are low on power. A class is not absolutely needed, but would be good. mtrycrafts i cant see the pictures but i will look into the thread, thanks both for reply! Here is the video. Cheers

The reason I suggested you go through pro audio outlets for a sub is they have subs which you would feed the signal from your preamp and the sub manages the crossover and forwards a high-pass signal to your power amp. This way your sub rolls off at the same place your mains pick up the signal for more balanced bass. It also reduces stress/load on the amp and mains, since the mains are not running full-range.
I hope the person who modded your crossover is very good. I think JBL has ssome pretty competent cross-over designers.

Consumer audio subs do not normally address bass management other than providing a low pass filter for the sub.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with some previous posters.

That Aleph 5 amp is one of Pass' single ended types, ....

Well, that is an out for sure, not a well designed amp. We'll just stipulate that it is audibly different from well designed amps.

 

[Verdinut]

The reason I suggested you go through pro audio outlets for a sub is they have subs which you would feed the signal from your preamp and the sub manages the crossover and forwards a high-pass signal to your power amp. This way your sub rolls off at the same place your mains pick up the signal for more balanced bass. It also reduces stress/load on the amp and mains, since the mains are not running full-range.
I hope the person who modded your crossover is very good. I think JBL has ssome pretty competent cross-over designers.

Consumer audio subs do not normally address bass management other than providing a low pass filter for the sub.

Kurt,

Most Pro Audio subs don't usually go down as low as hi-fi subs. The prospective buyer has to be careful not to engage into an expensive pro subwoofer purchase with disappointing low frequency performance.
Actually, there are not many pro audio subs which reproduce frequencies below 30 Hz. Only a few, mostly cinema transducers from Danley, QSC, EV and JBL will reach below that frequency but at -10dB, which is far from what several hi-fi subs can do.

Cheers,

 

[ski2xblack]

Well, that is an out for sure, not a well designed amp. We'll just stipulate that it is audibly different from well designed amps.

Well, they sound better than you might imagine. And their peculiar quirks may be what the OP prefers, which is ok. If the single ended Nelson Pass sound has put the hooks in him, there really aren't many options that will produce the same effect. The OP's choices are to dig up a more powerful Aleph 2 on the used market, or build one himself, or forsake that characteristic single ended sound and go with something conventional.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The supply caps will go south eventually, probably sooner than in other amps, since it's a class A space heater:

You're making me hungry, man. Breakfast time!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It has been more than two years that i have this system, i cant say that it has bored me, but i got used to the sound. So i would like to upgrade, change the sound a little.

Ah, the honeymoon period is definitely over after 2 years.

You need to dump that class-A space heater and change the sound to a solid state class A/B or class-D amp. That's how you change the sound. Then the honeymoon period will be reset and you are good for another 2 years.

 

[slipperybidness]

Ah, the honeymoon period is definitely over after 2 years.

You need to dump that class-A space heater and change the sound to a solid state class A/B or class-D amp. That's how you change the sound. Then the honeymoon period will be reset and you are good for another 2 years.

Well, a good SS design should get you to a "ruler flat amp response". That should always be the goal of a power amp, to simply amplify a line level signal.

Now, "to change the sound"--that is the role of EQ, RC, or processing!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well, a good SS design should get you to a "ruler flat amp response". That should always be the goal of a power amp, to simply amplify a line level signal.

Now, "to change the sound"--that is the role of EQ, RC, or processing!

Semantics.

 

[ski2xblack]

Ah, the honeymoon period is definitely over after 2 years...Then the honeymoon period will be reset and you are good for another 2 years.

There is some truth to this, even in the DIY realm. But that's just the consumerist demon on your shoulder, looking to empty your wallet. He doesn't care about your ears!

Well, a good SS design should get you to a "ruler flat amp response". That should always be the goal of a power amp, to simply amplify a line level signal.

Now, "to change the sound"--that is the role of EQ, RC, or processing!

You built a Latino ST-70, didn't you? Consider taking a walk on the wild side: build a single ended amp. Only then will you truly smell what the OP has been stepping in.