What is wrong with HT Magazine Part 2?

[Lordoftherings]

If that were true, I would have to buy them IMMEDIATLY.

Yes, -140 does look better, if better looking is a smaller number, but your ears can only hear and not see

I'd rather see 0% THD but it may never happen

LOL. You guys are just so funny, I luv it!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

LOL. You guys are just so funny, I luv it!

Well, you know how boring audio forums would be if EVERYONE says "you can't hear any difference"?

How boring it would be if everyone only talks about rational stuff?

I mean, okay, so we can't hear any difference (AVR5308 vs AVP-A1). Heck, they even look identical. We got that out of the way.

I mean most of these electronics have the same features and a lot of them also look very similar to one another. So what's there to talk about?

But seriously though, wouldn't you expect the AVP-A1HDCI to have better measured specs than the AVR-5308CI? Seriously.

AVR-5308:
FR: 20 Hz - 20 kHz +/- 0.04dB
THD: 0.004%
Crosstalk: -92 dB
SNR -109.9 dB

AVP-A1HDCI:
FR: 20 Hz - 20 kHz +/- 0.40 dB
THD: 0.03%
Crosstalk: -88dB
SNR: -109.6 dB

Of course, I'm only asking those who care because obviously most people don't care.

 

[davidtwotrees]

I guess the ones to ask would be the Denon design engineers, right? Not sure if they speak English............
Post some more specs in comparison. WPC. ACD watts. Digital info. HDMI info....

 

[Pyrrho]

Here is one example:

http://www.hometheatermag.com/receivers/808denr/index3.html

Analog frequency response in Pure Direct mode:
–0.08 dB at 10 Hz; –0.00 dB at 20 Hz
+0.04 dB at 20 kHz; –2.66 dB at 50 kHz

As you can see, @ 20 Hz it is -0.00dB. @ 20 kHz, it is +0.04dB.

So if you round to the nearest 1-decimal place, the overall frequency response is 20 Hz - 20 kHz +/- 0.0dB.

You can check out all the Onkyo receivers on this site and see that practically all of them have this type of FR.

In other words, it isn't really +/- 0.0 dB, just like I stated, but is rounded off to that; it is approximately +/- 0.0 dB. This fits perfectly with what I said originally in this thread:

...

I suspect that there is at least one error in your quoted measurements. "FR: 20 Hz - 20 kHz +/- 0.0 dB" is unlikely to be true. There is some variation in the frequency response, though it may be practically perfect as far as human hearing is concerned.

 

[Pyrrho]

Here we ago again Specs aren't everything. for eg. If the seperates are in a noisy environemnt and have balanced inputs/outputs, I would rather the seperates then the 5830 as it has better noise immunity regardless of how flat the frequency response curves are. I guarantee you that you would not be able to hear any difference between the seperates and the receiver. Not one.

In virtually all cases, I agree; one would not hear a difference. However, the separate power amplifier is slightly more powerful, so there is an off chance that one would need very slightly more power than the receiver could deliver, that the power amp could, and in that case, one may hear a difference. But given the closeness of power output, this is an extremely unlikely scenario.

So, the separates are better, but not enough to justify a cost that is almost three times as much. The separates are for people who have too much money on their hands and would like to part with some of it.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

In other words, it isn't really +/- 0.0 dB, just like I stated, but is rounded off to that; it is approximately +/- 0.0 dB. This fits perfectly with what I said originally in this thread:

Well, then you should have said +/- 0.00 dB.

Or better yet, +/- 0.000 dB.

Every decimal counts, man!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I guess the ones to ask would be the Denon design engineers, right? Not sure if they speak English............
Post some more specs in comparison. WPC. ACD watts. Digital info. HDMI info....

Well, that Pre-Pro section measurement kind of turned me off. So I stopped right there. And then I read the part where the reviewer says that the AVP-A1HDCI is NOT a FULLY BALANCED pre-pro, which is a contradiction to Gene's review. So that really turned me off.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

In virtually all cases, I agree; one would not hear a difference. However, the separate power amplifier is slightly more powerful, so there is an off chance that one would need very slightly more power than the receiver could deliver, that the power amp could, and in that case, one may hear a difference. But given the closeness of power output, this is an extremely unlikely scenario.

So, the separates are better, but not enough to justify a cost that is almost three times as much. The separates are for people who have too much money on their hands and would like to part with some of it.

I wouldn't mind getting it if it came with a 20 yr parts and labor warranty.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Well, you know how boring audio forums would be if EVERYONE says "you can't hear any difference"?

How boring it would be if everyone only talks about rational stuff?

I mean, okay, so we can't hear any difference (AVR5308 vs AVP-A1). Heck, they even look identical. We got that out of the way.

I mean most of these electronics have the same features and a lot of them also look very similar to one another. So what's there to talk about?

But seriously though, wouldn't you expect the AVP-A1HDCI to have better measured specs than the AVR-5308CI? Seriously.

AVR-5308:
FR: 20 Hz - 20 kHz +/- 0.04dB
THD: 0.004%
Crosstalk: -92 dB
SNR -109.9 dB

AVP-A1HDCI:
FR: 20 Hz - 20 kHz +/- 0.40 dB
THD: 0.03%
Crosstalk: -88dB
SNR: -109.6 dB

Of course, I'm only asking those who care because obviously most people don't care.

That's a very nice post, and which I agree with.

* By the way, for anyone interested by such things, the AVP-A1HDCI has it's Dacs configured
in a Fully Balanced Dual Differential mode.
And the POA-A1HDCI is configured in a Monoral topology with several transformers, and balanced output, and is also a state-of-the-art audio component, just like it's sibling companion, the AVP-A1.

I mean, just have a look at the specs, features, and pictures of the internals of both these components.
Also, ask the owners what they really think of their sound quality.

 

[3db]

So, the separates are better, but not enough to justify a cost that is almost three times as much. The separates are for people who have too much money on their hands and would like to part with some of it.

Not always. Seperates do give you teh advantage of just trading on the pre/pro instead of getting an all new A/V receiver as a pre/pro where the amps are wasted from non use. Many ways to spin this one.