What are the current thoughts on budget amplifiers for passive subs?

[aceinc]

I have a pair of 10" Dayton Titanic in small sealed enclosures. I am looking to get an amplifier to drive both. I've read a bit about the Behringer NX3000d, but I was wondering if there is something in the same price range I should be looking at?

I realize the power I can expect is ~450 watts at 1% distortion into 4 ohms per channel. I also I realize I will need to swap the fan for one that is quieter. Unless things have changed on the newer models.

Two features I think I will make use of is the built in crossover and the DSP. The crossover should help in both the low & high pass areas to match with the existing system. Since the enclosures are sealed, I will need boosting below 40 hz so they can even be considered "subs."

I can envision replacing the 10" woofers with 15" or possibly 18" in the future, keeping whatever amplifier I get.

For a price range, I would like to keep it under ~$500. What is the current wisdom in sub amp selection?

 

[Verdinut]

I have a pair of 10" Dayton Titanic in small sealed enclosures. I am looking to get an amplifier to drive both. I've read a bit about the Behringer NX3000d, but I was wondering if there is something in the same price range I should be looking at?

I realize the power I can expect is ~450 watts at 1% distortion into 4 ohms per channel. I also I realize I will need to swap the fan for one that is quieter. Unless things have changed on the newer models.

Two features I think I will make use of is the built in crossover and the DSP. The crossover should help in both the low & high pass areas to match with the existing system. Since the enclosures are sealed, I will need boosting below 40 hz so they can even be considered "subs."

I can envision replacing the 10" woofers with 15" or possibly 18" in the future, keeping whatever amplifier I get.

For a price range, I would like to keep it under ~$500. What is the current wisdom in sub amp selection?

To drive your two Dayton subs, I would suggest the Crown XLS 1502 Drive Core power amp. At 575 watt/ch with a 4 ohm load, it is powerful enough for your drivers. The Crown line is a very reliable product and more solidly built than the Behringer.

Your subs will handle a short peak power up to 800 watts. The recommended Crown would be suitable for them. I notice that you might replace them with 18" subs in the future. You might prefer the XLS 2002 for the bigger drivers, but this one consumes more power, and it might require a dedicated 20 amp circuit depending on the size of your listening room, your listening distance and desired maximum loudness. But don't ignore the fragility of your ears when they are exposed to high SPL.

Crown XLS 1502

DriveCore™ 2 Series power amplifier — 300W x 2 at 8 ohms, 1,550W x 1 at 4 ohms bridged

www.crutchfield.com

 

[aceinc]

To drive your two Dayton subs, I would suggest the Crown XLS 1502 Drive Core power amp. At 575 watt/ch with a 4 ohm load, it is powerful enough for your drivers. The Crown line is a very reliable product and more solidly built than the Behringer.

Your subs will handle a short peak power up to 800 watts. The recommended Crown would be suitable for them. I notice that you might replace them with 18" subs in the future. You might prefer the XLS 2002 for the bigger drivers, but this one consumes more power, and it might require a dedicated 20 amp circuit depending on the size of your listening room, your listening distance and desired maximum loudness. But don't ignore the fragility of your ears when they are exposed to high SPL.

Crown XLS 1502

DriveCore™ 2 Series power amplifier — 300W x 2 at 8 ohms, 1,550W x 1 at 4 ohms bridged

www.crutchfield.com

One question I have about the Crown 1502 specifically and pro amps generally, "How do you match the input sensitivity with home audio gear?"

I have an older Crown Amp I was using for input to the Titanics. I don't have the model number, I'm at my office. It has two gain controls on the front and with them pegged I could not get very much volume. I tried a number of sources, and I believe there may even be switches on the back with no luck.

Will I have a similar problem with the 1502?

Is there something I should check in my connections or source?

 

[aceinc]

To drive your two Dayton subs, I would suggest the Crown XLS 1502 Drive Core power amp. At 575 watt/ch with a 4 ohm load, it is powerful enough for your drivers. The Crown line is a very reliable product and more solidly built than the Behringer.

Your subs will handle a short peak power up to 800 watts. The recommended Crown would be suitable for them. I notice that you might replace them with 18" subs in the future. You might prefer the XLS 2002 for the bigger drivers, but this one consumes more power, and it might require a dedicated 20 amp circuit depending on the size of your listening room, your listening distance and desired maximum loudness. But don't ignore the fragility of your ears when they are exposed to high SPL.

Crown XLS 1502

DriveCore™ 2 Series power amplifier — 300W x 2 at 8 ohms, 1,550W x 1 at 4 ohms bridged

www.crutchfield.com

If the 1502 is bridgeable, and I get a pair of Ultimax 15/18 Picking up a 2nd 1502 might be an option.

Which brings up another question. In the case of the Ultimax which is DVC@ 2 ohms each, and you have a stereo amp capable of 2 ohms, is it better to drive the each VC independently, one from each channel or connect them in series and bridge the amp?

 

[Pogre]

I have a pair of 10" Dayton Titanic in small sealed enclosures. I am looking to get an amplifier to drive both. I've read a bit about the Behringer NX3000d, but I was wondering if there is something in the same price range I should be looking at?

I realize the power I can expect is ~450 watts at 1% distortion into 4 ohms per channel. I also I realize I will need to swap the fan for one that is quieter. Unless things have changed on the newer models.

Two features I think I will make use of is the built in crossover and the DSP. The crossover should help in both the low & high pass areas to match with the existing system. Since the enclosures are sealed, I will need boosting below 40 hz so they can even be considered "subs."

I can envision replacing the 10" woofers with 15" or possibly 18" in the future, keeping whatever amplifier I get.

For a price range, I would like to keep it under ~$500. What is the current wisdom in sub amp selection?

I'm using a NX3000D right now and have plenty of power with only 1 working channel. My sub is a RBH SV-1212NR.

 

[Verdinut]

One question I have about the Crown 1502 specifically and pro amps generally, "How do you match the input sensitivity with home audio gear?"

I have an older Crown Amp I was using for input to the Titanics. I don't have the model number, I'm at my office. It has two gain controls on the front and with them pegged I could not get very much volume. I tried a number of sources, and I believe there may even be switches on the back with no luck.

Will I have a similar problem with the 1502?

Is there something I should check in my connections or source?

Pro Audio amps have a gain (volume) control at the input. It's used to adjust the gain structure for obtaining a low floor noise with the incoming signal for pro audio PA and concerts. However, most if not all home audio power amps don't have such controls. I would just put the gain at maximum, but control the sensitivity of a XLS 1502 with sensitivity switch using one of the two settings, either the 0.775 or the 1.4 volt. The setting would depend on the voltage output of the source.

With the XLS 1502, you shouldn't have a similar problem as you had with your old amp.

 

[Verdinut]

If the 1502 is bridgeable, and I get a pair of Ultimax 15/18 Picking up a 2nd 1502 might be an option.

Which brings up another question. In the case of the Ultimax which is DVC@ 2 ohms each, and you have a stereo amp capable of 2 ohms, is it better to drive the each VC independently, one from each channel or connect them in series and bridge the amp?

The DVC @ 2 ohms subs are designed to be connected with the voice coils in series for operation as a 4 ohm drivers. They would be well matched with a bridged XLS 1502. When bridged, the 1502 outputs 1550 watts for a 4 ohm load.

 

[aceinc]

Pro Audio amps have gain (volume) controls at the input. It's used to adjust the gain structure for obtaining a low floor noise with the incoming signal in pro audio PA and concerts. However, most if not all home audio power amps don't have such controls. I would just put the gain at maximum, but control the sensitivity of a XLS 1502 with sensitivity switch using one of the two settings, either the 0.775 or the 1.4 volt. The setting would depend on the voltage output of the source.

With the XLS 1502, you shouldn't have a similar problem as you had with your old amp.

Well I arrived home. The Crown Amp I have is a model K1. The sensitivity switches I mentioned on the back are defined in the manual thusly;

Set the Input Sensitivity switches of each channel to the desired setting (see Figure 3.7). Two choices are available: 1.4V for full rated output (33 dB gain), or a fixed voltage gain of 26 dB.

I have them set to 1.4v. If you are using them attached to Home Theater equipment, what would the proper choice be?

 

[lovinthehd]

Well I arrived home. The Crown Amp I have is a model K1. The sensitivity switches I mentioned on the back are defined in the manual thusly;

Set the Input Sensitivity switches of each channel to the desired setting (see Figure 3.7). Two choices are available: 1.4V for full rated output (33 dB gain), or a fixed voltage gain of 26 dB.

I have them set to 1.4v. If you are using them attached to Home Theater equipment, what would the proper choice be?

Depends on your output level from your pre-pro. I have several Crown XLS Drivecore (there was another different XLS series before this) amps, the first gen was only 1.4V, the additional setting of 1.4V came with the second gen. I have used the gen 1 amps with a variety of a avrs/pre-amps without issue, nor needed the .775 V setting on the 2502 I have. That's a few older Denon and Onkyo avrs. Even if you had a low output avr/pre-pro the .775V setting should do the job, even the ones only outputting 1V which would be on the low side. What is your gear?

 

[Verdinut]

Well I arrived home. The Crown Amp I have is a model K1. The sensitivity switches I mentioned on the back are defined in the manual thusly;

Set the Input Sensitivity switches of each channel to the desired setting (see Figure 3.7). Two choices are available: 1.4V for full rated output (33 dB gain), or a fixed voltage gain of 26 dB.

I have them set to 1.4v. If you are using them attached to Home Theater equipment, what would the proper choice be?

As I mentioned above, if the source can easily output a clean 2 volts like a Denon or a Marantz AVR, you can fixt the sensivity switch at 1.4,. but it would most likely work as well on the 0.775v setting. In my HT, I have a Marantz SR5011 and I'm using external QSC DCA Cinema Series amps, which have a 0.9v sensitivity for full output at 4 ohms. The system operates flawlessly.

 

[aceinc]

In poking around I found a used Crown XTI 2002 for a little less than a new NX3000d. Does anybody have experience with this amp?

How does this compare to the XLS 1502?

 

[Verdinut]

In poking around I found a used Crown XTI 2002 for a little less than a new NX3000d. Does anybody have experience with this amp?

How does this compare to the XLS 1502?

Probably @lovinthehd would be the one to give you a good answer.

 

[lovinthehd]

In poking around I found a used Crown XTI 2002 for a little less than a new NX3000d. Does anybody have experience with this amp?

How does this compare to the XLS 1502?

It really doesn't directly. Depends what power/feature set works better for you. I'd consider them both but depends on use....

 

[aceinc]

It really doesn't directly. Depends what power/feature set works better for you. I'd consider them both but depends on use....

My use case is;

Driving two sealed passive subs.
Features I would like are;
DSP,
low fan noise,
ability to work with low powered HT sound processors and
as much clean power as I can get for as little as possible.

 

[lovinthehd]

My use case is;

Driving two sealed passive subs.
Features I would like are;
DSP,
low fan noise,
ability to work with low powered HT sound processors and
as much clean power as I can get for as little as possible.

I use a couple XLS amps on diy subs, but their dsp is more intended to cross a bass bin with a top rather than say provide a protective HPF for a ported sub. No eq/delay management in the XLS either. The XTi series would be better in the dsp aspects, more along the lines what the Behringer NX3000 mentioned has on board. Someone around here is using some XTi amps for their subs, don't remember who, tho. The XTi seems to have several fan settings so likely you can find something that works for you, but don't know how quiet they are overall. Seems only 1.4V sensitivity option looking at the XTi manual, tho.

You can also utilize external dsp with the XLS amps, like a minidsp HD unit or similar....

 

[aceinc]

I listed my Crown K1 today, and agreed to purchase a Crown XTI 2002 tomorrow. I'll let y'all know how it turns out.

 

[lovinthehd]

I listed my Crown K1 today, and agreed to purchase a Crown XTI 2002 tomorrow. I'll let y'all know how it turns out.

Just what is the goal here?

 

[aceinc]

The goal is to enhance my subwooferage.

As I mentioned above I have two 10" Dayton Titanics in DIY boxes which are currently loafing along connected in parallel (through a low pas/ high pass filter) to my rear speakers which are Magnepan MMGs.

Some time back the K1 was attached to these cabinets and to the sub out (via Rocket Fish) to my sound processor. I was never pleased with the K1/Titanic combination because I could not get much volume out of them and there was no "bass bump" capability which meant they started rolling off around 50hz.

These are the issues I am trying to ameliorate.

 

[aceinc]

Well I have the XTI 2002 in place. I have it installed, moved the cabinets closer to the corners, installed System Architect on a laptop, with a mic at the listening position flattened one cabinet, then the other, then checked the combined response & it looked pretty good.

For additional testing I added the Rythmik 15" which has an issue. It only works from the low teens to about 50 hz before dropping like a stone. Brian Ding says it is because the driver has been down firing for too many years (~14). For fun I flipped the sub over with the driver facing up, made no other changes and the response curve started trailing off over 100 hz. When added as a 3rd sub it does fill in the lower frequencies however.

Now I need to decide what to do about the 15".