What are the causes of "The Dumbing Down of Audio"?

Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Bose and iPod have done quite enough to damage audio, but what are some other factors?

I was running it through my head when I realized there aren't as many "audiophiles" as there used to be. By "audiophiles" I mean the cable loving guys that have completely mis-balanced budgets. While I realize much of what they believe in may be incorrect or just plain crazy (no offense audiophiles) but maybe they do some good in this world of home theater in a box systems. The average person is attracted to the simple all-in-one wonder of Bose or some like product that they just plug into the wall and connect the speakers for their home theater experience.

Now it seems that "audiophiles" are at the butt of every joke among audio geeks like so many of us here as well as the Joe6packs who wouldn't dream of spending $1k on one pair of speakers, let alone cables. Could it be the audio geeks are playing a small part in killing audio. We straddle the line of both sides of audio. On one end we will happily throw down a big chunk of change on speakers and on the other we don't find the need to spend thousands on cables and other tweaks.

We can only hope that the audio geeks will draw out the best of both worlds, what we view as optimal. But will this happen? Who knows, I could be crazy.;)
 
F

fmw

Audioholic Ninja
Sorry, but after 30 years as a crazy high end audiophile, I can't see anything positive at all from that end of the business.

People buy Bose because it has been marketed brilliantly. Marketing is the key to selling products, after all. People buy MP3 because convenience is more important than sound quality to most people. MP3 doesn't produce sound quality as good as red book CD's but it's good enough for most people.

I think the audio business is alive and well. There is a low end, a high end and healthy middle.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
I suppose my rant was completely pointless then, it had to happen sometime.:D
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
I think that there are people who get the concept that a decent set of speakers is still a decent set of speakers, but by far and away the killer of audio has been the convenience factor of the MP3 combined with video.

That is - people watch movies, they don't listen to audio at home, under the same circumstances, that they did 20+ years ago. You used to go to audio for quality sound that nothing in the world could touch. It had to be a record, because nothing else delivered that quality (reel to reels?). So, it was at home, and there was no Internet, so you had to be dedicated and do your homework and trust sales guys.

Nowadays, I don't think there are fewer audio fanatics, but there are FAR more people with some audio in their homes. While not a ton, there are far more, which means that there is more market, and a need for cheaper products. So, we get this influx of cheap, cruddy product, as well as the heavily marketed Bose stuff, which appeals to a certain demographic.

Yet, it is the jump in audio quality that goes with video that has really helped/hurt things. People want surround. They may not commit to it, but they still want it, and within a fixed budget, they compromise the stereo audio in favor of five speakers and a cheap subwoofer.

This is fine, because it is surround, and is typically an upgrade on their TV speakers.

They don't care about cable pricing, as they will happily drop 100 bucks or more on Monster stuff. So, I wouldn't think the 'audiophile' is hurting themselves at all with their certain quirks. (cable risers?)

But, for audio, we have moved from albums being the way to get music, to the MP3 delivering far better than cassette quality, and nearly CD quality in environments that really don't call for it. In our cars, while we exercise, at work. These are places where a 48kbs stream of audio is often enough to keep people happy and tapping their toes. When people go home, they aren't turning on the audio in their listening room, but are hitting their theater (family room), and turning on a movie, or a TV show, which features 5.1 surround and audio that was previously unattainable.

So, the audio shops go away in favor of A/V shops, and the stereo experts go away in favor of A/V experts. Big stereo setups disappear for similary priced, so cheaper, surround rigs. And the audiophile is ripped apart online for the voo-doo that often accompanies their golden ears.

Audio geeks can only hope to spread the word of decent audio - but they need to do so within an A/V world, and understand that a lot of people just don't listen to audio in places where sound quality matters.
 
I

InTheIndustry

Senior Audioholic
Everything BMXTRIX said is absolutely correct.

We RARELY do two channel only rigs any more. It's always a surround system with speakers strong enough to carry a good music presentation if a client chooses to do so.

On top of that, people are SOOOOOO incredibly busy running their lives & being pulled in multiple directions with family, work, etc. Who has time to sit down and just listen to music? Not many people. They're too busy out there working their butts off trying to pay for the house they just built, or the theatre we just put in.

And, as BMXTRIX eluded to, music is very easy to access. It's something people like to have on in the back ground while they're doing chores, exercising, or cooking, or whatever. That's why I love things like Sonos http://www.sonos.com/index.htm . Until I put this through my own house, I NEVER actually even thought about stopping what I was doing and just listening to music unless I was testing out speakers or new product for work. Which kind of made it like.... work! Now, I can't turn it off. Why? Because it's easy to access. I don't care that the quality is just a little below a CD. It still sounds excellent & I have literally anything I want to hear at the touch of a button.

That's also why I have a really odd (to most of you) love affair with in-ceiling speakers. I love having whatever I want to listen to in whatever room I want without having to worry about placement, sitting or standing, etc. I've tried (what feels like) every brand out there looking for the best in-ceiling speaker for someone who really likes extremely high quality sound. And, yes, just like my Sonos player there's a compromise but it's a VERY slight one given my current lifestyle habits.

People's lifestyles just aren't oriented around sitting at home anymore. There are too many other things pulling at our attention to just stop. Maybe that's a bad thing?
 
Biggiesized

Biggiesized

Senior Audioholic
The problem with music nowadays? Two words: mastering engineers.
 
zhimbo

zhimbo

Audioholic General
The problem with music nowadays? Two words: mastering engineers.

Exactly. It's easy enough to get the good equipment, if you care to. Most people don't care, but it's there if you do. Yes, there's lots of crappy low-bit rate mp3s, but you can always buy on CD if you want.

But if the source is mastered poorly - and it usually is, at least for rock and pop - you're screwed. That's the big "dumbing down" problem.

There's current music I like, but I can't stand listening to the sonic wall-of-compression. And I can't do a damn thing about it.
 
MinusTheBear

MinusTheBear

Audioholic Ninja
Its funny you mention Bose and Apple. Bose is the most marketed speaker manufacturer, Apple is the most marketed portable audio device. I cringe everytime I see those Bose ads in scientific america (how ironic) and those stupid commercials with the hand in front of that white backround.....you can go to hell:mad:. We live in a world of mediocrity, what do you expect. It is only going to get worse.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Its funny you mention Bose and Apple. Bose is the most marketed speaker manufacturer, Apple is the most marketed portable audio device. I cringe everytime I see those Bose ads in scientific america (how ironic) and those stupid commercials with the hand in front of that white backround.....you can go to hell:mad:. We live in a world of mediocrity, what do you expect. It is only going to get worse.
I had my mouse in the wrong place... looked like an 'I' and thought it was a great word to describe it all...

immediocrity - The willingness of the consumer to buy an inferior product just to have it right now - immediocrity
 
MinusTheBear

MinusTheBear

Audioholic Ninja
I had my mouse in the wrong place... looked like an 'I' and thought it was a great word to describe it all...

immediocrity - The willingness of the consumer to buy an inferior product just to have it right now - immediocrity
And in some situations people will pay a premium above the already expensive cost to get a hold of these products when facing supply shortages. The ebay guro's especially love you:).
 
J

jamie2112

Banned
Mastering and record company lameness

Most of the music you hear today is mixed for the people who listen on their computers. A record company exec is going to hear the latest and not so greatest bands out there and think my bands cd need to be as loud as this, hence the mastering engineer. The manager or record rep for the band will have the mastering engineer raise all the levels of the whole spectrum from 40 hz to 20 k as far as he can before distortion. That is the problem as well is engineers actually mixing for computer speakers. There are so many horrible sounding recordings out there now I am very happy when I find music thats recorded and mixed properly. You cannot mix a record using computer speakers as a reference point. Sorry to rant but EVERYBODY can be an engineer today. Even the last U2 record sound like it was mixed for computer listening. The "music listener" is a dying breed..."Crank up the bose man, this Paramore record is killer dude"......Rubbish.....:eek:
 
Jack Hammer

Jack Hammer

Audioholic Field Marshall
I really think it has to do with combination or marketing, the birth of cd's, and FM radio pop music stations. Years back advertisers started playing their tv and radio commercials louder because it got peoples attention. FM pop music stations starting boosting sound levels because their stations played louder. Compact discs came out and a new audio engineering style was born where what worked for LP's didn't sound right with cd's...

...Fast forward a coupla decades and now the norm seems to be for much popular music to be recorded at overly high sound levels to boost volume instead of sound quality. MP3's just were the final straw in the general populace learning to gleefully accept mediocracy in their music.

Jack
 
gliz

gliz

Full Audioholic
the general populace has never been into Hi-Fi, at least not as much as the rest of us are. I know very few people that have nice audio rigs. Folks just cannot seem to sit still long enough to enjoy them anyway. I hate to say this but I am going to, there is a degree of snobbery that puts a lot of folks off to audiophiles as well. I was just looking at sound and visions web page today, they are reviewing a $19,000 set of speakers, who buys that stuff? I agree with what has been said here they are all valid points. Maybe, just maybe it is that "aire of supiority" that some audiophiles project when talking about gear that puts some folks off. The love of music takes place in the heart, not in audio gear. (although I get the best gear my budget allows for and I encourage my friend an family to do the same) Please, I hope that this post does not get taken the wrong way, I do agree with all the points that have proceeded mine.
 
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C

cfrizz

Senior Audioholic
Well said Gliz!

And you are right on the money!

There is a level of snobbery within the audio community that I try to avoid at all costs. Audiophiles tend to make things more mysterious, complicated & time consuming than they have to be. ESPECIALLY when it comes to listening to music.

When I listen to someone talking about everything they have to go through just to listen to a record, not to mention how much money they spent on the record player, the vacumn cleaner for the records, the cleaning of each record before and after playing, etc. etc. I positively shudder!

I just want to listen to the music, not go through hoops to even be able to get there!

Audio has not been dumbed down, it has simply made it easier, more accessible, & mobile for everyone to enjoy at whatever level they wish to do so.

Most days I'm listening to my mp3 player playing through my system in my livingroom listed below, cranked up so that I can hear it clearly in my bedroom & not have to worry about having to jump up and down changing out cd's!

I don't care if it isn't the best audiophile sound known to man, I just care that I'm enjoying myself listening to any one of over 600 songs that are on my player all day long!

The only time I will do any "critical listening" is when I first get a cd. After that, I'm just rocking out to the songs. Oh & if they were recorded a bit too loud, well then I have a volume button on my remote that will allow me to turn it down.

Setting up a HT can be very complicated, listening to music shouldn't be.

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID! Then sit back & enjoy.:)
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
I don't see a dumbing down, at least for those who want to learn. The advent of on-line forums is such the boon to consumer advocation. I love it!

Yeah... I've spent a LOT in the last couple of years. Before that time? I was using 15 yo rat shack bookshelves, with Kenwood amp. No pre-amp, no tv. I spent a lot of my time working with classical music during these years. I was just like everyone else... "anyone who spends that much on audio equipment is just plain nuts"... well, I am now one of those nuts...

How did this happen? It was the purchase of a tv. Like other customers, I wanted surround. I go to CNET. Onkyo HTIB is a good value, done deal. I put on LOTR, some other ES tracks, I am completely blown away. I cannot believe that $400 could you get you that. After the initial love-fest, I realize the distortions are great from the center speaker, and that the sub sounded like a one-note farting wonder.

So... im thinking $2k will do the trick, and set out auditioning for a half year or so. My first audition? Dealer, nearly against my will, puts $7.5k speakers in front of me, and my jaw dropped. I had no idea. Even since this time, I don't even think these speakers are a good value!! (I ended up auditioning about 25 speakers or so). I think the trick is to get someone to even go into such a store to even give them a listen. This first store has been in my town for many, many years, yet it was the first time that I ever stepped foot in there.

Well, that was a bit verbose, but I just want to state that I am one example of someone who has bought plenty of audio gear, but only after I bought a TV to begin with. About $25k has now been spent in less than a two-year span. Granted, that does include curtains, rugs, seating for 8, projector, etc, but more than half that cost is for audio.

Call me nuts. :eek: heck, my friends already do...

2x "You are completely insane"
1x "You are totally insane"
1x "Im never going to the movie theater again"
ad infinitum "HAHAHAHAHHA...."
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
immediocrity - The willingness of the consumer to buy an inferior product just to have it right now - immediocrity

GREAT WORD! Im going to start using it. :p

It should be submitted to the descriptivist dictionaries of the world, such as Merriam-Webster. Immediocrity will stand proudly next to words like irregardless. :D
 
Jack Hammer

Jack Hammer

Audioholic Field Marshall
I gotta fully agree on the comment about a lot of audio snobbery. It really irritates me when people use their equipment to try to show people how much 'better' they are than others. And it turns a lot of people off to the concept of better sounding music and gear. Which seems to leave them nowhere to seek information about getting "high quality" sound except from the warm, inviting, smiling, & friendly faces in the marketing departments of companies like Bose and Monster.

Jack
 
jliedeka

jliedeka

Audioholic General
There will always be people with more dollars than sense. A BMW and a Honda will get you from point A to point B just as well but there are some people with the cash and the desire for the Bimmer.

The May issue of Stereophile had a review of a $25k pair of speakers. They were fine speakers but I could probably name some speakers in the $2-3k range that sound just as good and will be easier to drive. The way I look at it, if someone wants to spend that kind of money on speakers or $1000/foot on fancy cables, so what.

Back to the original point, there are a lot of trade-offs in audio. Convenience versus quality is one of them. Remember how horrible CDs sounded when they first came out? They were still more convenient than LPs because you didn't have to clean them or deal with popping from static. Not to mention you could skip over a song with one button press. Now that CDs sound good, people are again choosing convenience over quality. I see a trend there, also. MP3s are losing ground, albeit slowly, to lossless codecs. I know a lot of people with hard drives full of FLACs.

Jim
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
Audio has not been dumbed down, it has simply made it easier, more accessible, & mobile for everyone to enjoy at whatever level they wish to do so.
EXACTLY!!! And this is why Apple has been successful.
 
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