What are some speaker bargains?

[Defcon]

The choice of speakers is always a matter of debate and is very subjective, which is its so hard to get definitive answers.

Given that, are there some bargains to be found? e.g. well regarded speakers on sale or closeout? e.g. is the Infinity Primus P363 which are no longer sold but were regularly on sale for $100 each, I regret not buying them.

There are so many speaker brands, many of whom don't spend on advertising/buying reviews, but you heard good things from their owners.

My usage will be 70/30 movies/music, and I have a sub.

I prefer dynamic speakers and those with high efficiency, they can play louder and cleaner with less power. I am not at all concerned with looks. I am also ok with finding used bargains.

 

[Swerd]

Everyone seems to agree that Affordable Accuracy Monitors are a bargain that sounds great.

 

[KEW]

You need to give us a budget.
However, since you mentioned the P363, I would suggest you go to Amazon or BestBuy and try out a pair of the Sony Core Towers.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-core-series-dual-5-3-way-floorstanding-speaker-each-black/5926456.p?skuId=5926456
https://www.amazon.com/Sony-SSCS3-Floor-Standing-Speaker-Single/dp/B00O8YLL8E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1510888340&sr=8-1&keywords=sony+core+tower

For background, the Pioneer FS-52 towers (designed by high-end speaker designer, Andrew Jones, which was heavily hyped) were arguably better speakers than the P363 (I thought so), and the Sony were designed to be a marginally more expensive speaker that beat the Pioneers (and they do IMHO).
However, Sony did not hype their speakers the way that Pioneer did and consequently, they are a bit of an unsung hero.
In any case, if $100/ea. fits your budget, Amazon gives you 30 days and BestBuy 14 days to try them out. Actually Amazon has started their Christmas return policy, so you would have until 1/31/17 to return them. BestBuy may do something simular.
Nothing compares with listening to speakers in your home for several days!

 

[KEW]

Everyone seems to agree that Affordable Accuracy Monitors are a bargain that sounds great.

These would cost roughly the same and give you more bass than the Sony's (the Sony's are not at all bass shy for a tower, but the AA's are especially good with bass)!
I focused on your mention of the P363 being a tower and was evaluating towers.
The Sony bookshelf speakers (CS5) are a screaming bargain right now at $75/pair, but the AA's are the next step up IMHO among high value speaker deals. If you will not use a sub, the AA's are a no brainer. If you have a sub, that removes teh benefit of the extra bass from the AA's. The AA's still have more detail and accuracy, but the Sonys are not too far behind.
I believe bookshelf speakers represent overall better value than towers.

 

[yepimonfire]

The choice of speakers is always a matter of debate and is very subjective, which is its so hard to get definitive answers.

Given that, are there some bargains to be found? e.g. well regarded speakers on sale or closeout? e.g. is the Infinity Primus P363 which are no longer sold but were regularly on sale for $100 each, I regret not buying them.

There are so many speaker brands, many of whom don't spend on advertising/buying reviews, but you heard good things from their owners.

My usage will be 70/30 movies/music, and I have a sub.

I prefer dynamic speakers and those with high efficiency, they can play louder and cleaner with less power. I am not at all concerned with looks. I am also ok with finding used bargains.

Sound like Klipsch would do you well if dynamics and efficiency are the goals.

What’s the budget?


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[psbfan9]

Depending on a budget there are quite a few speakers to consider. I would suggest;

RSL CG3 at $270.00 a pair shipped

https://rslspeakers.com/products/cg3-bookshelf-speaker/

Polk Audio RTi A3 at $239.00 a pair shipped

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_107RTIA3B/Polk-Audio-RTi-A3-Black.html?tp=186

Klipsch Reference R- 15M $249.00 a pair shipped

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_714R15M/Klipsch-Reference-R-15M.html

Then you have the genuinely budget-friendly Monoprice speakers. Most have good reviews.

https://www.monoprice.com/category?c_id=120&cp_id=12002&cs_id=1090407

&

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=109&cp_id=10906&cs_id=1090601&p_id=8247&seq=1&format=2

 

[zieglj01]

If music is only 30 percent and you can handle $300, then the JBL Arena F27 may work for you -- $149 each.
https://www.amazon.com/JBL-Arena-F27-Black-Floorstanding/dp/B072QWP98C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1510893612&sr=8-1&keywords=jbl+f27&dpID=31tWDV0sFDL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

Now for bookshelf

1st choice the Philharmonic as recommended

2nd choice the Cambridge SX60 -- AC4L just did an $80 price drop
https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/cambsx60bla/cambridge-audio-sx60-6.5-2-way-bookshelf-speakers-black-pair/1.html

For used and mainly movies -- the Klipsch KSB 3.1
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Klipsch-KSB-3-1-8-Bookshelf-Speaker-Pair/222719491215?hash=item33db1dbc8f:g:bF0AAOSw4nhZ73Y5

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Klipsch-KSB-3-1-Bookshelf-Speakers/192357599412?epid=1424589061&hash=item2cc96808b4:g:9RIAAOSwDkVaAgOH

 

[yepimonfire]

Depending on a budget there are quite a few speakers to consider. I would suggest;

RSL CG3 at $270.00 a pair shipped

https://rslspeakers.com/products/cg3-bookshelf-speaker/

Polk Audio RTi A3 at $239.00 a pair shipped

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_107RTIA3B/Polk-Audio-RTi-A3-Black.html?tp=186

Klipsch Reference R- 15M $249.00 a pair shipped

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_714R15M/Klipsch-Reference-R-15M.html

Then you have the genuinely budget-friendly Monoprice speakers. Most have good reviews.

https://www.monoprice.com/category?c_id=120&cp_id=12002&cs_id=1090407

&

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=109&cp_id=10906&cs_id=1090601&p_id=8247&seq=1&format=2

Better off going for an open box RP-150m. Don’t get me wrong, I think the R-15m is a great speaker, but the ceramic anodized aluminum cone in the premiere handles high spl and excursion better at midbass frequencies than the less rigid IMG woofer.

100dB @50hz @~3.6% THD and 100dB @80 hz and 1.5% THD is fairly impressive for a 5.25” driver. Those measurements were taken 3m away.

I don’t have the graph on my phone, but even though both the RP 150m and R-15m have a -3dB response at 47hz & 50hz, the THD at 50hz and 80hz for the R-15m at 95dB approaches 13% and 7%, respectively.

Both speakers measure +-2dB quasi anechoically, and both display well controlled directivity off axis.

You can generally find the RP 150m on eBay for under $300 https://m.ebay.com/itm/Klipsch-RP-150M-Premiere-Bookshelf-Speakers-Ebony-OPEN-BOX-PERFECT-PAIR/202108063656?epid=1537742941&hash=item2f0e944fa8:g:mEcAAOSwB-1Yogce

Polk speakers are also an incredible value. From their cheap Monitor II series up to their better Rti series, they manage to perform pretty well in all areas. They are fairly efficient too. Their Rti a3 has impressive extension for a bookshelf speaker. At open box prices however, Klipsch definitely has them beat.

If your budget permits, and movies with great dynamics are the biggest factor, Klipsch RB-81s can be found for about $279 a piece, or $540 a pair. The Reference II series are a bit hot in the top end though compared to the Reference/Reference Premier.


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[Defcon]

The budget is < ~$250/speaker, so all the options mentioned would work.

w.r.t the Primus vs Pioneer AJ, I remember both of these were heavily mentioned and regularly compared and the opinion seemed to favor the Infiniti, I think it had better specs (esp sensitivity) and it was endorsed by Harman and Dr. Floyd.

and this review - http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/infinity-primus-p363-loudspeaker/

Maybe I should try and find the Sony Core in local BestBuy. I just bought the Onkyo 656 on sale for $250 there.

 

[zieglj01]

Maybe I should try and find the Sony Core in local BestBuy. I just bought the Onkyo 656 on sale for $250 there.

Best Buy has them -- and Amazon has them for $73 a pair -- however do not try to blast the roof off with them.

 

[Defcon]

Best Buy has them -- and Amazon has them for $73 a pair -- however do not try to blast the roof off with them.

Which one is $73 a pair? I only see SCS3 for $98 each. And what do you mean by 'blast roof off', are you saying they play too loud?

 

[lovinthehd]

I think he's saying they're not spl monsters, so don't expect to blast your roof off with them....

 

[zieglj01]

Which one is $73 a pair? I only see SCS3 for $98 each. And what do you mean by 'blast roof off', are you saying they play too loud?

The towers are $98 each on Amazon, which would be better for you. It is the bookshelf speakers that are $73 a pair.

Not blowing the roof off, means that they are not made for IMAX levels or as stated for monster Spl's

 

[yepimonfire]

The Sony cores will also require a sub, with bookshelves even with music they need a sub. If your budget is $500 a pair, I’d go with the others that have been mentioned.

Klipsch for dynamics and spl, I have an onkyo tx 656 and sitting 11’ away I can achieve playback levels (in stereo) of about 100dB with absolutely no distortion. The bass is good enough for music (unless pipe organs are your thing).

Your OP stated you prefer dynamics and efficiency, with high volumes for movies. None of the other bookshelves can meet that requirement.

Are you looking to add more speakers and a sub down the road or just 2ch?


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[Defcon]

The Sony cores will also require a sub, with bookshelves even with music they need a sub. If your budget is $500 a pair, I’d go with the others that have been mentioned.

Klipsch for dynamics and spl, I have an onkyo tx 656 and sitting 11’ away I can achieve playback levels (in stereo) of about 100dB with absolutely no distortion. The bass is good enough for music (unless pipe organs are your thing).

Your OP stated you prefer dynamics and efficiency, with high volumes for movies. None of the other bookshelves can meet that requirement.

Are you looking to add more speakers and a sub down the road or just 2ch?


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I will have at least 5.1 and more likely a 7.1 or 5.1.2 setup (using some kind of height speakers to simulate Atmos). I already have some speakers so if I get new ones the current ones will move to other positions.

I agree with you, the low efficiency of the Sony Cores is probably a concern for me.

Are you talking about the Klipsch R-15M bookshelves? What receiver volume is needed for those SPL levels?

How would it compare to these - http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/hb-1.html
which seem to have slightly better specs (power handling etc)

Can we not have have dynamic performance and good musicality in the same speaker?

 

[psbfan9]

Can we not have have dynamic performance and good musicality in the same speaker?

Yes. With the RSL you can. The RSL's small size should be ignored. It reaches the high SPL's you desire.
They offer a 30-day return policy and pay shipping both ways. Worth a try in my opinion.

“Little speaker, big sound” The CG3 accomplishes this on a much more grand scale. This isn’t merely “big” sound. This is “wholly enveloping“, “room-saturating”, “I said a very naughty word” sound. Don’t worry, we won’t judge you!”

– Home Theater Review

“…the CG23 just blew me away…”
– Audioholics

With a budget of $500.00 you can get two CG23's (which would give you 2.1) or, a pair of the CG3's with a CG23 for a 3.1, (with the sub you already have), then build from there.

Link to reviews; https://rslspeakers.com/professional-reviews/

https://rslspeakers.com/

 

[yepimonfire]

I will have at least 5.1 and more likely a 7.1 or 5.1.2 setup (using some kind of height speakers to simulate Atmos). I already have some speakers so if I get new ones the current ones will move to other positions.

I agree with you, the low efficiency of the Sony Cores is probably a concern for me.

Are you talking about the Klipsch R-15M bookshelves? What receiver volume is needed for those SPL levels?

How would it compare to these - http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/hb-1.html
which seem to have slightly better specs (power handling etc)

Can we not have have dynamic performance and good musicality in the same speaker?

The hsu horn is a standard exponential horn rather than a CD horn designed for constant directivity, the Klipsch has much better dispersion and a wide off axis sweet spot.The Klipsch are great with music and movies, their sound is very neutral and highly revealing. The Klipsch bookshelves can handle 75w continuous. Sitting 10’ away from them that equates to about 102dB spl in room, 105dB in 2ch. The RP-150m bookshelves are capable of reference level playback in a medium to large room with standard 100w/ch receiver. In my 20x12 room, I’m seated 11’ away and during movies I have measured peak spl levels of 110dB, no distortion whatsoever.

With highly efficient horn loaded speakers, power is less of a concern. Power handling also doesn’t mean jack. A speaker with 100w power handling can easily be destroyed by 50w signals at the right frequency, or could happily handle a 200w peak with no problems.


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[Defcon]

The hsu horn is a standard exponential horn rather than a CD horn designed for constant directivity, the Klipsch has much better dispersion and a wide off axis sweet spot.The Klipsch are great with music and movies, their sound is very neutral and highly revealing. The Klipsch bookshelves can handle 75w continuous. Sitting 10’ away from them that equates to about 102dB spl in room, 105dB in 2ch. The RP-150m bookshelves are capable of reference level playback in a medium to large room with standard 100w/ch receiver. In my 20x12 room, I’m seated 11’ away and during movies I have measured peak spl levels of 110dB, no distortion whatsoever.

With highly efficient horn loaded speakers, power is less of a concern. Power handling also doesn’t mean jack. A speaker with 100w power handling can easily be destroyed by 50w signals at the right frequency, or could happily handle a 200w peak with no problems.


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Thank you this is very helpful! I learnt that the HSU sensitivity numbers are misleading as well since they are half space etc. And now I find out the horn isnt a compression driver. So that's out.

What are your thoughts on the JBL 230 vs Klipsch?

 

[shadyJ]

Thank you this is very helpful! I learnt that the HSU sensitivity numbers are misleading as well since they are half space etc. And now I find out the horn isnt a compression driver. So that's out.

What are your thoughts on the JBL 230 vs Klipsch?

Neither the JBLs nor the Klipsch speakers use compression drivers either. Hsu's sensitivity numbers are not misleading. Many manufacturers will spec their speaker's sensitivity in odd ways without saying how they measurements were made. Hsu is letting you know the conditions of their measurements, half-space, which is more than what many manufacturers will do. It is a lot less convoluted than Klipsch's sensitivity, which is almost certainly more inflated. As for the horn geometries of each of these speakers, they will have their own advantages. The Hsu horn will probably have the most narrow dispersion pattern, with the JBL having the widest dispersion pattern, and the Klipsch inbetween, that is just a guess though. Each pattern has its own advantage.

 

[yepimonfire]

Thank you this is very helpful! I learnt that the HSU sensitivity numbers are misleading as well since they are half space etc. And now I find out the horn isnt a compression driver. So that's out.

What are your thoughts on the JBL 230 vs Klipsch?

Compression drivers are a ton more sensitive, however, horn loading of titanium drivers still greatly improves sensitivity. Klipsch sensitivity is also measured as “in room”. Regardless, they play a whole lot louder and are much more dynamic than any direct radiating speaker of similar size. The sole reason I would recommend Klipsch over the hsu is because the horn is designed for better controlled directivity, exponential horns beam at high frequencies and have much more narrow coverage off axis. In addition, aluminum drivers featured in Klipsch speakers are much more efficient than paper/poly drivers, since they don’t have the same “lossy” damping characteristics.

Based purely on reviews, the jbl 230 is probably less accurate, it doesn’t feature a horn, but a very shallow waveguide that probably doesn’t offer much loading. Something like the 580 or 590 would definitely work though, and actually does feature a compression driver.

The horn in the Klipsch premier and reference sounds good anywhere in the room. The timbre does not change when sitting off axis, or standing up above the speaker. They also are fairly immune to room placement since the reflected sound is nearly identical in response to the direct sound.

A 90 degree pattern in the Klipsch horns is more than wide enough, chances are, if you’re sitting more than 45 degrees off axis, you probably are going to struggle to see the TV lol.

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