Watts vs. Clipping!!

[fredk]

Unless your 899 is factory set very differently than my 2808, you listen at very loud levels. It would be interesting to see what your listening levels are in db.

 

[timoteo]

Ive been getting that from a lot from people. Everyone is trippin out on the db that i listen at. i dont feel that i listen to movies at EXTREME volumes either.

So the last movie i watched was X-Men Origins: Wolverine on bluray. (got it early) My input level is at 0db. My mains are at -5db and the master was at -5db. That was plenty loud but definately not overbearing by any means. No distortion. No clipping that i could tell. Just great sound!!

Ive decided that im gonna leave the settings as is & keep an eye (or ear) out for any signs of running my equipment past the safe point. So far so good!

Thanks for all your help!...im sure you will hear back from me the next time i have a question!!!! Enjoy your systems!!

 

[highfigh]

Ive been getting that from a lot from people. Everyone is trippin out on the db that i listen at. i dont feel that i listen to movies at EXTREME volumes either.

So the last movie i watched was X-Men Origins: Wolverine on bluray. (got it early) My input level is at 0db. My mains are at -5db and the master was at -5db. That was plenty loud but definately not overbearing by any means. No distortion. No clipping that i could tell. Just great sound!!

Ive decided that im gonna leave the settings as is & keep an eye (or ear) out for any signs of running my equipment past the safe point. So far so good!

Thanks for all your help!...im sure you will hear back from me the next time i have a question!!!! Enjoy your systems!!

If others think you listen at extreme levels and you don't hear it that way, is it because you have listened this way for a long time, work in a noisy environment, discharge guns with no hearing protection, work on cars that may have modified exhaust systems or have been in the Military? If any of these is true and you don't use hearing protection, your hearing threshold has shifted and at this point, I would bet that it has shifted quite a bit. If your health insurance covers it (even if it doesn't), have your hearing tested. Seriously.

If you have kids, don't subject them to volume levels like this. Their ears are more sensitive than adult ears and can be damaged very easily. I don't care if everyone you know takes the kids to concerts all the time, it's a bad thing to do to them.

(stepping off my soap box now)

 

[morejustin]

Thanks a lot

Thanks a lot, this is great info.

 

[timoteo]

When i said that others have been telling me that i listen at high db levels, i meant people in the forums! Not people that enjoy movies with me in person at my place.

So unless every single person that has come over my place in the last few months fits your criteria then i dont believe that my levels are too high.

Not sure where the sarcasm came from so ill assume highfigh had a bad day! Hope his next day is better than the last & again i thank all who have put their 2 cents in with my questions!! I'm dialed in now & lovin every minute of great audio...even at the volume i listen to them at!!!

 

[TLS Guy]

When i said that others have been telling me that i listen at high db levels, i meant people in the forums! Not people that enjoy movies with me in person at my place.

So unless every single person that has come over my place in the last few months fits your criteria then i dont believe that my levels are too high.

Not sure where the sarcasm came from so ill assume highfigh had a bad day! Hope his next day is better than the last & again i thank all who have put their 2 cents in with my questions!! I'm dialed in now & lovin every minute of great audio...even at the volume i listen to them at!!!

Your ears do not have satisfactory replacement parts. With the speakers you have you should on no account be listening at 0db! That means that if a line input sees a volt input, the full power of your receiver is unleashed on your speakers and ears.

For your sake I hope your output stage has melt down or your voice coils fry before your VIII cranial nerves.

 

[timoteo]

Thanks tslguy for the concern but 0db on my setup isnt as loud as your probably thinkin. With the latest adjustments in the settings & a recalibration i am no longer at 0db on the master. the highest i go to is maybe -5db. i agree with protecting my ears from extreme volumes & not running my speakers to the point of melt down.
I like the setup you've put together on your link tslguy. That investment must sound amazing!

 

[timoteo]

My bad!

Hey sorry about that TLSGUY in that last post i was reffering to you as tslguy. Just a typo...my bad!

 

[PENG]

Thanks tslguy for the concern but 0db on my setup isnt as loud as your probably thinkin. With the latest adjustments in the settings & a recalibration i am no longer at 0db on the master. the highest i go to is maybe -5db.

Just curious, did you measure the actual SPL from your listening position with the master volume at -5 and the level adjustment at 0?

 

[timoteo]

no i havent yet. i went to pick one up at radio shack but didnt know if i should get the analog or digital version. thought id do a little research first b4 spending $50. do you have a prefference between the two?

When i do get one, what kind of numbers should i get as a readout? assuming that i have the master at -5db.

 

[highfigh]

When i said that others have been telling me that i listen at high db levels, i meant people in the forums! Not people that enjoy movies with me in person at my place.

So unless every single person that has come over my place in the last few months fits your criteria then i dont believe that my levels are too high.

Not sure where the sarcasm came from so ill assume highfigh had a bad day! Hope his next day is better than the last & again i thank all who have put their 2 cents in with my questions!! I'm dialed in now & lovin every minute of great audio...even at the volume i listen to them at!!!

It seemed that people were there when they told you that you listen with the volume up too high. I didn't know it was just people on the forums.

I wasn't being sarcastic. If people watch movies with you and say it's too loud, you have a hearing threshold shift. We all do- it's unavoidable with all of the noises and sound we're subjected to. I'm also serious about having your hearing tested. That alone can answer some questions about why some things sound the way they do. I have mine tested occasionally and I know where my hearing is more or less sensitive than "normal" for my age group- since I'm in the business, I need to have some kind of reference when someone asks "How does it sound to you?". If I have a hearing deficit and I know about it, I can't very well blame the equipment or equalization.

As far as what I posted about children and loud sounds/noise, I'm dead serious.

Glad to see that you're enjoying the system. I'm not busting your chops for the sake of it- I know some things can't sound real unless they're played at "the right volume". The problem is that if we play everything at high SPL, we'll be deaf in no time.

If you have ringing in your ears after being in a quiet place for a long time, you actually have permanent hearing damage. Ears aren't as durable as we may want them to be.

Sorry if you think I was being sarcastic- I was just trying to keep you from toasting your ears.

Let us know what the SPL is at your normal listening level, OK?

 

[PENG]

no i havent yet. i went to pick one up at radio shack but didnt know if i should get the analog or digital version. thought id do a little research first b4 spending $50. do you have a prefference between the two?

When i do get one, what kind of numbers should i get as a readout? assuming that i have the master at -5db.

I think the analog is better but I have the digital one and it works well for me. You should set it to "C" weighting slow or fast. Without knowing your room acoustic condition it is hard to predict what kind of numbers you will be getting. If I were to take a guess based on your room size, speaker sensitivity and master volume at -5, I would say you can expect an average of around 80 to 85 dB from your sitting position depending on the kind of music you will be listening to. You may also get peaks of 90 dB or higher. If you in fact listen to the 85 dB level frequently and for extended period of time, you are not going to get hearing loss any time soon but it is getting a little close for comfort. Let's hope your sound meter will show a lower number.

 

[basspig]

Silently, on the inside, I was laughing to myself as I read the worried statements and then read the calculated SPL measurements expected, when my normal listening level is about 123-127dB for music of an aggressive nature, and when I pegged the CEL 201 on it's 140dB scale 3 weeks ago while testing my new speaker layout.
I know I've lost a LOT of hearing in the past forty years since I've been involved with sound reinforcement, running FoH for rock bands, etc in the 80s and suffering from an as-yet unnamed mental illness that thrives on ridiculous amounts of bass.

Just a few references:

The Bridgeport Symphony's loudest measured crescendo: 105dB
Molley Hatchet concert: 114dB

I think 80-85 is quite safe... unless you're a Tibetan monk and hope to have perfect hearing to age 90.

 

[PENG]

I think 80-85 is quite safe... unless you're a Tibetan monk and hope to have perfect hearing to age 90.

I think so too, as long as one does not listen to >85 dB for prolonged period of time it is quite safe. Regarding those 115 dB peak level from classical concerts I won't worry about it either.

 

[highfigh]

Silently, on the inside, I was laughing to myself as I read the worried statements and then read the calculated SPL measurements expected, when my normal listening level is about 123-127dB for music of an aggressive nature, and when I pegged the CEL 201 on it's 140dB scale 3 weeks ago while testing my new speaker layout.
I know I've lost a LOT of hearing in the past forty years since I've been involved with sound reinforcement, running FoH for rock bands, etc in the 80s and suffering from an as-yet unnamed mental illness that thrives on ridiculous amounts of bass.

Just a few references:

The Bridgeport Symphony's loudest measured crescendo: 105dB
Molley Hatchet concert: 114dB

I think 80-85 is quite safe... unless you're a Tibetan monk and hope to have perfect hearing to age 90.

120dB used to be called the "threshold of pain" and now, it has been reduced to "threshold of feeling", with 130dB being called the threshold of pain.

Here ya go- OSHA's Permissible Noise Exposure table from http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_id=9735&p_table=STANDARDS:

" TABLE G-16 - PERMISSIBLE NOISE EXPOSURES (1)
______________________________________________________________
|
Duration per day, hours | Sound level dBA slow response
____________________________|_________________________________
|
8...........................| 90
6...........................| 92
4...........................| 95
3...........................| 97
2...........................| 100
1 1/2 ......................| 102
1...........................| 105
1/2 ........................| 110
1/4 or less................| 115
____________________________|________________________________
Footnote(1) When the daily noise exposure is composed of two or
more periods of noise exposure of different levels, their combined
effect should be considered, rather than the individual effect of
each. If the sum of the following fractions: C(1)/T(1) + C(2)/T(2)
C(n)/T(n) exceeds unity, then, the mixed exposure should be
considered to exceed the limit value. Cn indicates the total time of
exposure at a specified noise level, and Tn indicates the total time
of exposure permitted at that level. Exposure to impulsive or impact
noise should not exceed 140 dB peak sound pressure level."

 

[highfigh]

Also, here's a link for causes of hearing impairment. If listening to music makes us deaf, how can it be a good thing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_impairment

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise-induced_hearing_loss

 

[timoteo]

Hey no hard feelings!

Posts & texts can both come across wrong & i just took your post wrong. i appreciate the concern! all this talk of hearing damage has made me think though. so ive gone over my settings and have dialed down my overall listening levels just a hair. once i do get a psl meter then ill know what kind of dbs im dealing with. im only 29 & want to be able to appreciate good sound for years to come so i better take care of my ears now.

that chart on recommended listening levels was very helpful, thanks for posting it. that will help anyone who sees it & is willing to go by it!

 

[basspig]

I think so too, as long as one does not listen to >85 dB for prolonged period of time it is quite safe. Regarding those 115 dB peak level from classical concerts I won't worry about it either.

Molley Hatchet is a southern ROCK band that I encountered in one of my video production location shoots last year.

The classical concert absolute maximum level, at the fourth row center, was 105dB, not 114dB, as measured on my CEL 201.

Many rock concerts are dialing down to just 95dB. Gone are the Woodstock and California Jam days when we made it as loud as the equipment would go.

For me, certain types of music have to be an all-body-consuming sensation, one where it feels like bones are being shattered. Just feeling a little pounding in the chest doesn't satiate me in the least. Fortunately, the duration for this kind of pounding may be 15-30 seconds, because the trauma effect quickly quenches the urge. Typically after a blast like that, I can go up to a month without listening to any music.