Want to add some bookshelfs/surrounds to my center

N

Neauxla

Audiophyte
I'm new to the audioholic scene and am looking to slightly upgrade my system.

I currently have an old JBL 5.1 home theater set that I got 8 years ago. A few years ago I replaced the center with an Infinity Beta C360 center channel. I now want to upgrade the satellites with something better but that will work with my current center. Suggestions?
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Interesting! We more often get folks who have a front pair and are looking for a matching center. So this is a bit of a reversal :p

The good news is, you got yourself a pretty darn good center speaker there! So that's a good start, at least :)

Ideally, what you're looking for across your front three speakers (Left, Center and Right) is a perfect sonic match. You want that so that when a sound pans across the front, moving from speaker to speaker, there is no noticeable change in sound - it all just sounds like one, giant, continuous speaker!

This is easier said than done.

You don't necessarily have to use three identical speakers, three speakers from the same line, or even three speakers from the same brand! But typically, it is easier to find a good sonic match by sticking with the same brand and line of speakers - as they will typically use the same drivers (tweeters and woofers) in all of the speakers in that line.

That said, there are a lot of center speakers out there that are NOT a perfect sonic match to the rest of the speakers in the same line. They're usually meant to be. But making a horizontal speaker that sounds the same as the vertical speakers is not an easy thing to do! You can't just take a vertical speaker and flop it on its side. So, once again, easier said than done!

I can't say I've heard the C360 in person for any length of time or in any sort of proper audition. I do recall coming across them in a store setup at one point, but that's hardly any sort of proper evaluation. So I'm relying on the professional reviews that I can find, plus a bit of knowledge about how Infinity and the Harmon group tend to develop and design their speakers. In general, they rely upon and target the designs of Floyd E. Toole.

So first up, the obvious and easiest answer is that you should look for the matching Infinity Beta 20 bookshelf or Beta 40 tower speakers. The ES250 surrounds would be an option for the surround speakers. It's much less important that the surround speakers be a perfect match to the front three speakers as their primary job is ambience, not direct, precise sound. The ES250 are nice in that they give you plenty of options for their dispersion pattern. You can choose to run them as monopole, dipole or bipole speakers. So what ever sort of dispersion you prefer, the ES250 can accommodate.

If you're here asking though, I'm thinking that maybe you're not able to find the matching Beta series speakers in your area? If that's the case, then you'll want to look for speakers with similar design goals and an overall similar approach to give yourself the best chance at a good sonic match.

From all accounts that I've been able to read, the Paradigm Monitor series ought to be a fairly decent match to the Infinity Beta series. Paradigm's speakers are widely available, so you should be able to find them in your area if the Infinity Beta speakers are unavailable to you for some reason. Paradigm's speakers have similar design goals of neutral response and wide dispersion, which all stem from the same research into speaker design that Floyd Toole pioneered at the NRC in Canada.

So if the other Infinity Beta speakers are not a viable option to you, I'd suggest giving some Paradigm Monitor series speakers a try. For the surround speakers, it's less important to get the same brand and series of speaker. A very good all around surround speaker choice that tends to work well with virtually any system is the Emotiva ERD-1 surround pair , which is on sale right now for a mere $250/pair. The ERD-1 is a great, neutral di/bi-pole surround speaker that plays well in virtually any setup. So at its current clearance price, it's a great way to save a bit of money and still get great surround performance :)

Hope that helps!
 
N

Neauxla

Audiophyte
Thanks a ton! Way more info than I was expecting.

It is easier to find the Infinity Primus and Classica than Beta. Did either of these replace the Betas or are they a completely different line?
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Thanks a ton! Way more info than I was expecting.

It is easier to find the Infinity Primus and Classica than Beta. Did either of these replace the Betas or are they a completely different line?
The Beta was designed to be a step up from the Primus - the Classia was designed to be a step up, and replacement
for the Beta. However in reality, does not look like a major step up - the Classia seems to be more of a fashion design.
The Primus continues to be the big sellar for the Infinity group.

I have owned the Primus and the Beta - and I do prefer the Beta. The Primus is still a very good deal for the price.
 
N

Neauxla

Audiophyte
I'd buy those classias but my center is black and those classias are the natural wood. I cannot seem to find them online anywhere either. FML.

Any of the JBLs compare?
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
I'd buy those classias but my center is black and those classias are the natural wood. I cannot seem to find them online anywhere either. FML.
Any of the JBLs compare?
The Classia speakers have been discontinued.

The JBL and Infinity speakers, have different sonic and tonal characters.
To me the JBL lower level consumer speakers, do not sound and perform
as good, as the Infinity.
 
N

Neauxla

Audiophyte
Would you recommend the Paradigm Mini Monitor or Paradigm Atom Monitor as my mains then as FirstReflection suggested?
 
N

Neauxla

Audiophyte
Don't really want to spend over $400 (online price) for the 2 mains
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Don't really want to spend over $400 (online price) for the 2 mains
The choice is yours - however, I am not a fan of mixing up the
front channel speakers. If you do not want to buy the Beta's
off Ebay, or bend on the looks and expierment with the Classia
from Harman - then think about selling your center on a place
like Ebay and get new front channel speakers.

Based on my experience in the past, the Paradigm's sonic and
tonal balance will not blend well with the Beta speakers. And,
the Beta is a little more forward, while the Paradigm Monitor is
a little more laid back. The same is with the Atom.

You can always expierment with 3 front channel speakers in the
Pimus line - good prices from Crutchfield, and also in your budget.
Plus, they also have a good return policy - you may like them.
infinity primus at Crutchfield.com
 
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F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Yeah, without having actually heard your Beta center for myself, my Paradigm recommendation was just an educated guess :) They've got a similar sort of design philosophy and similar driver design, but similar is not same , and the ideal would be to have the same sound across all three front speakers.

It's tricky because even if you buy all three front speakers from the same brand and even the same series within the brand, that still doesn't always guarantee that the sound of the bookself main speakers will be the same as the sound of the horizontal center speaker. They can use the exact same drivers and everything, but placing that center horizontally and altering where the tweeter and woofers go does affect the sound vs. the main speakers. So to get the same sound across all three, the manufacturer has to put in a lot of work and be very careful with the design of that horizontal center speaker! It isn't easy to get it to sound the same as the other, main speakers.

That said, if you have a very neutral and linear center speaker, and you get very neutral and linear main speakers, even if they are from different series or different brands, the sound across all three should be very close. It's when speakers have little variances away from neutral and linear that they take on a "character" or a "voice" of their own that you have to match in order for all three front speakers to sound the same.

Also, some people are more critical of the match across the front three than others. Personally, I can't tolerate even the slightest change. If a sound pans across the front speakers, I don't want to be able to tell AT ALL when the sound transitions from, say, the right speaker to the center to the left speaker. I want that panning sound to be PERFECT - as though it was just one, extremely wide speaker playing the sound the whole time!

But other people are sometimes much less picky. It's worth listening for yourself to find out what is acceptable to you because I, nor anyone else, can tell you what you personally find acceptable :)

If you can find a local dealer that will take returns without a hassle, I wouldn't jump to sell your Beta center right away. I'd at least try a couple of main speakers from other series or other brands just to see if they are an acceptable match to you. If you don't have a local dealer who will take back returns without a hassle though - you could try bringing in your center to their store. It's far from an ideal audition, but it's better than nothing. If you really can't return anything though, then yeah, it would probably be better to just sell your Beta center and go with three matching front speakers.

So it's all about hearing a few options for yourself at this point. I'm not sure if ziegl has heard the newest Paradigm Monitor speakers, which are now in version 7. They've got a new tweeter and some other design changes, so they might sound a bit different than the previous Monitor series speakers. Again, not sure what ziegl has heard and compared.

So yeah, if you can find a place that will take returns without a hassle, I'd try that first. Bring your Beta center to the store. Try it out with some candidates. If you find something that sounds like a good match in the store, bring them home and see if it works for you! If not, return them and maybe consider going for a full replacement with three new speakers across the front. But I wouldn't jump to sell your Beta center right away. You might very well find a good match with other front speakers and your Beta center is a good speaker! So it'd be nice to not lose money on selling it if you can find a good match with something else :)
 
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N

Neauxla

Audiophyte
Ok, I am gonna scour the internet for some Infinity Betas or Classias. That being said...would it be better to get the Beta 10s or 20s for a room about 15x20. Also, I want to wall mount them if that matters.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Ok, I am gonna scour the internet for some Infinity Betas or Classias. That being said...would it be better to get the Beta 10s or 20s for a room about 15x20. Also, I want to wall mount them if that matters.
That is a fairly decent size room - with a sub you should be fine.
Do not play at extreme levels.

The Beta is rear ported, and is not reccomended for wall mounting.
The Classia is front ported, and is better suited for wall mounting.
Again, you can buy them here >
Harman Audio - C205CH
 
N

Neauxla

Audiophyte
I guess I have to decide then if aesthetically if I care that the cherry doesn't match my black center.
 
N

Neauxla

Audiophyte
I found some Infinity Beta 20s on ebay for $299 but I cannot find out what they retailED for in the past. Is that a good price?
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
I found some Infinity Beta 20s on ebay for $299 but I cannot find out what they retailED for in the past. Is that a good price?
They use to be around $249 each - the choice is yours.
 
N

Neauxla

Audiophyte
The Beta 20s are rear ported. Would it be bad if I wall mounted them?
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
The Beta 20s are rear ported. Would it be bad if I wall mounted them?
I do not reccomend mounting them on the wall - the bass will boom
and somewhat muddy the sound. Your call - they will sound better
at least 8" from the back wall.
 

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