Want a Bang-for-buck sub around $1000 or less

[mmckinney]

Hi,
I am wanting a best bang-for-buck sub for a HT application. It doesn't matter if it is prefab or DIY. I am pretty fair with woodworking. I really would like to spend less than 700-800 but will spend more if the difference is dramatic (i.e. more bang for buck). My room is a basement with drop ceiling and dimensions of about 20x30x8 with one opening into a hallway. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Incidentally, I was quite interested in something like the SVS PB12-Plus/2. Also, how do I check my setup with an SPL meter. (Sorry, I am pretty new to all this).

thanks very much in advance.

 

[Gimpy Ric]

I owned one of these for nine months and miss it! Great price right now. It was the top of the line Hsu Research VTF-3 HO. I had the Turbo port extensions, but they are not critical. The sub is very musical, and has high output. !0% off right now, and well worth $810.00 for Black.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3-ho.html

 

[Adam]

For setting up and calibrating your system, I suggest checking out the "Tips & Tricks" section on the main Audioholics site. You can find that on the top menu if you go to audioholics.com. There's a lot of good stuff there. We can definitely also help you out, but check out some of those articles first.

Hsu gets good reviews, and Ric knows his stuff! I have an SVS cylinder sub and love it. If you contact those companies, they'll tell you which of their subs is most appropriate for your room.

 

[mmckinney]

SVS told me the SVS PB12-Plus/2 would be a great fit. I never got an answer at Hsu. I also noticed that PartsExpress had some Hsu designed Daytons. I was just looking for other opinions/options. A poster named WmAx (Chris) had made mention in several posts about getting better bang for buck from a DIY. I don't really care if I build or buy. I am confident I can build (with detailed plans that is) and actually enjoy building things but I only want to build if I am gonna be able to get a better value. Bottom line, I want a great sub at the best possible value in my budget. I am gonna measure my room and attach a drawing with exact dimensions/layout.
Oh and thanks about the setup post. I will check out the tips/tricks section in a moment.

 

[WmAx]

SVS told me the SVS PB12-Plus/2 would be a great fit. I never got an answer at Hsu. I also noticed that PartsExpress had some Hsu designed Daytons. I was just looking for other opinions/options. A poster named WmAx (Chris) had made mention in several posts about getting better bang for buck from a DIY. I don't really care if I build or buy. I am confident I can build (with detailed plans that is) and actually enjoy building things but I only want to build if I am gonna be able to get a better value. Bottom line, I want a great sub at the best possible value in my budget. I am gonna measure my room and attach a drawing with exact dimensions/layout.
Oh and thanks about the setup post. I will check out the tips/tricks section in a moment.

Yes, you can build a sub that objectively performs superior to commercial offerings, if you follow suitable plans. In conjunction with user avaserfi, I did design a slot port subwoofer with specific bracing and dampening requirements using a 1st rate(in terms of non-linear distortion and over-all flexibility) driver called the Kappa Perfect VQ which is manufactured by Infinity. If maximum SQ is the point, you should build two(for a stereo matched pair) to get seamless integration with the main speakers. For reference, it is typical to achieve SPL of well over 120dB at the listening position, using two of these built to my specifications, and this is with virtually no audible distortion. Back down to under 120dB and under range(which is still far more SPL than you can ever use in real life for any real music or movies) and it will be a transparent device with no perceptible compression or distortion, assuming you use a sufficient amplifier and crossover system. I recommend the Behringer EP2500 amplifier with a fan replacement(the stock fan makes audible noise in home use). The best crossover to use is the Behringer DCX2496, or you can pay considerably more and get a DBX Driverack, which is a comparable alternative.

Here is the cut list and CAD illustrations, produced/provided by avaserfi(this design is a direct descendant of his main DIY design that I specified): http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45528

A few people have built this sub so far, but as far as I know, only one has built the recommend stereo pair so far. He wrote a subjective review, if that's of any interest to you, which can be found here: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46071

I want it to be clear that you can not audibly exceed the sound quality of these subwoofers, if built properly, at any cost. But you can target specific issues and increase performance there in. For example, if you wanted higher SPL, you can go with drivers of equal linearity and higher power handling and excursion, such as the JL Audio W7 drivers or TC Sounds/Audiopulse drivers(some still available from partsexpress.com). You can also get lower extension. The 12" Kappa Perfect can work effectively with high output to about 14-15Hz in the right enclosure. However, if you want high output at 10Hz or lower, you need to investigate other drivers/cabinets for this purpose. The cabinet plans given have effect extension to about 19Hz.

-Chris

 

[mmckinney]

OK... If I am understanding you, you are saying that the specifications given will yield a setup to get down to 19 Hz at 120 dB. I don't really understand fully what the frequency and loudness mean in terms of how it will sound. I did notice that you suggested a rack amplifier. I was kinda hoping for an integrated amp but if a rack amp is a better value, so be it. As for the x-over, will my receiver not suffice? Incidentally, my father uses a DriveRack in his pro-audio setup so I am a little familiar with that unit. The Behringer is a little more affordable tho.
Also, how much power and at what load are you suggesting?

 

[WmAx]

OK... If I am understanding you, you are saying that the specifications given will yield a setup to get down to 19 Hz at 120 dB. I don't really understand fully what the frequency and loudness mean in terms of how it will sound.

I did not mean to imply this had anything to do with sound signature. I was simply giving a SPL range that can be expected. As for sound signature, the room acoustics of your environment will be the primary determining factor. However, the DCX2496 unit suggested does offer the ability to effectively modify the sub/room interaction and thus, the sound signature/quality.

I did notice that you suggested a rack amplifier. I was kinda hoping for an integrated amp but if a rack amp is a better value, so be it.

It comes down to power delivery. A good target to shoot for is 500 watts @ 4 Ohms, per Kappa Perfect driver. If you chose to use a small sealed box, more power would be required. You also need to be certain the amp can really deliver the power. Many amps may have exaggerated specs. Take for example the Dayton 1000 Watt subwoofer amplifier; the stand alone component model. It is clearly marketed as producing 1000 WRMS into 4 Ohms. In reality, it produces 580 WRMS average, when tested by 3rd party.

As for the x-over, will my receiver not suffice? Incidentally, my father uses a DriveRack in his pro-audio setup so I am a little familiar with that unit. The Behringer is a little more affordable tho.
Also, how much power and at what load are you suggesting?

The receiver's crossover can be used - you will not have the number of different crossover slope types and rates available to you, nor even the specific single digit resolution of frequency, available on a proper high quality active DSP crossover. Also, you will not have the ability to adjust the sound signature without the powerful filters in the DSP xover.

Note: ideally, you would also run your mains from the DSP xover, instead of relying upon the receiver's inferior crossover system. However, to do this, assumes that your receiver has main channel pre-outs and that you have an external amplifier. The lowest cost external amplifier of which I am aware, that is of good measured quality(and is more able to drive low impedance loads [it's 2 Ohm stable] with no difficulty as compared to many receivers).

-Chris

 

[mmckinney]

wow... this is a wealth of information. And thank you guys so much for sharing it. Ok. So I will get the Behringer x-over and amp. I don't think, however, that my recvr has preamp outs for my mains or surrounds (I will check tho). I am going tomorrow to get an SPL meter. I will probably try to build the cabs before I purchase the woofers/amp/xover just to save warranty for actual use.
My wife is gonna be sooooo pissed.