Volume not loud enough.....

J

Jarvis31

Enthusiast
Ok so I am new here, I have been into home theater stuff for about 10 years now and I still don't know enough. I just upgraded my yamaha reciever to a new yamaha rx-v467. I got it at bestbuy. So the reason I uograded is cause I noticed about 5 years ago that I had to crank the volume on the reciever more than half way to get it loud enough to my liking. I don't know how that can happen from one day to the next but whatever. So now 5 years later I upgraded. I have boston acoustic speakers and sub. The front are book shelf size speakers. Specs are 8ohms, amp requirement ulis between 15-100 watts. The old reciever was a 425 watt reciever so thats about 85 watts per speaker. The new reciever is a 525 watt reciever so that's about 105 watts per speaker. So my question is the following how come I still feel like I have to crank this thing for it to be loud. I don't get it. My next door neighbor has one of those sony surround sound packages and that thing sounds amazingly loud. We live in town homes so I can hear everything. I don't feel mine is that loud. So that's it any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks
 
dkane360

dkane360

Audioholic Field Marshall
Watts aren't the only thing that matter, speaker efficiency also plays a role. The more efficient the speaker, the louder it can get with less power.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
dkane is correct. Look at it like horsepower: 100 horsepower will seem more powerful in a light car than a heavier one.

As for speaker specs, the higher the sensitivity number, the less power it needs. That's an oversimplification but it gets the point across.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
You didn't upgrade the power. At all. Your receiver is not good for 105 x 5 full-bandwidth. Specs say 1k. It may be good for 105 x 2.

Take the 210/5= 42

The specs of the receiver you purchased are a clear indicator that it should be avoided.

Copied from Yamaha website:
Channels 5.1
RMS Output Power (1kHz) 105W x 5
Total Power (20Hz - 20kHz) 525W (1kHz)

And what's-up with TP stating 20-20 on one side, and then 1k on the other?:confused:

Red flag.

In Yamaha's defense, there is a lot of features/connections/options packed into that unit with a retail price under $400. Another red flag.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
Now we may be able to squeeze a little more out of the unit.

How do you have it set-up?
 
Hi Ho

Hi Ho

Audioholic Samurai
How loud do you have to crank it? I regularly run my Yamaha at -20 to -10 for music and that is very loud. There is nothing wrong with turning it up more than half way. It is perfectly normal. 0 is reference level after all.
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
Just to add to what Zumbo already said regarding true power, the 467 uses chips amps instead of discrete. Return the 467 and either upgrade to the 667, or go with another brand like the Denon 591, Onkyo 508, or HK 1600 which are in the same price range I believe.

On another note, modern receivers use a different volume control than older ones. It is not uncommon to not get real volume till you go past half way on the volume knob.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
There are a number of articles across the Internet, including one right here at Audioholics about the all channels driven mythology:
http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/flushing-out-myths-in-consumer-audio

But, the bottom line is that quite often people, in an attempt to improve their system by purchasing something new, just make a big step sidways on some key areas. Power is one of these big areas which has not improved much over time.

This is true for several reasons, and power to the speakers is just one of those reasons. Speaker efficiency is a key reason as well, but I can tell you that even with a fairly efficient speaker, the driver configuration and actual quality can play a significant part of the output power.

Now, you did talk about turning it up halfway to get decent volume, but don't think of that as a bad thing. Often volume slopes are not linear, so you may find you get volume to uncomfortably loud volume levels before you max out the volume. Likewise, you may find that the audio quality starts getting distorted before you max out the volume of the receiver.

At the price you are paying for a receiver, you have a lot of product that is similarly priced, but there is also a lot which is more expensive. From a little bit more, to a lot more, so while you are in the decent entry level category, you are still looking at entry level product, which should curb your expectations somewhat for what to expect.

As for your neighbor with a Sony system, it's impossible to say what it sounds like or what audio quality he is getting along with that sound. Quite often smaller speakers can sound louder, and perhaps even be driven louder for certain frequencies but don't truly have the audio quality that more expensive components have even if they don't sound as loud, they may still sound far better.

Oh, and you might want to check out some articles on room acoustics... some people find that kind of important as well. :)
 
W

waxey

Junior Audioholic
A friend of mine has the same receiver that I helped him set up. I mite suggest that you go into manual set in the menu; 1st basic menu and check speaker levels and distance. then volume menu and check that the adaptive drc & dsr is set to off. But speakers do make a big differance as my friends center channel a def. tec, clr 2002 sounds better and louder than his fronts & surounds wich are lesser quality.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I wonder if OP has anything to do with Chase Jarvis...
 
J

Jarvis31

Enthusiast
ok so....

Ok so i have read what all you have wrote, obviously i am wayyyyy out my league here so i really need you guys to help me out. First off i am not as into this as you guys are, you guys have these crazy expensive fantatic surround sound systems. I have beginners stuff. Would it help if i told you guys brand and model number of everything i have and post some pictures of how i have everything set up? i dont mind as long as i can get some good advice and guidance i dont mind sharing at all. I am all open for learning of this stuff. So the first thing i noticed, with my new recievcer is that yes the volume numbers are different as opposed to what my old one had. my old one had normal numbers 0-100 i think and thats it now the new one goes negative and positive all very confusing. I mean i go negative it gets louder. explain all this to me. I may end up returning it i mean i have 30 days and so far i am really not impressed with this reciever compared to my 10 year old one. Only differnce i have seen is the fact that the new one has HDMI and my old one has none so that is the only plus i have seen so far. Another thing i noticed which i dont know if its a defective reciever or something i am doing, but i wil turn it on , turn the TV on and set the reciever to TV and then by itself it will go to a different audio source and i will have to hit the TV button on the reciever again to be able to hear the TV. dont know if i eexplained that well, but whatever. So as far as speakers go, the Front left and front right are CR7 boston acoustic speakers, the center speaker is also a boston acoustic (i will get you the model number later, im writing this at work), the two back ones are also boston acoustic as well as the sub. The TV is a TOC samsung LCD 52 inch. i wil get more details on all this when i get home. but the main point is that i feel that i have to go turn that knob like crazy to get some loud sound to come out..i will give you guys numbers when i get home as far as volume goes...ok thats it for now
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
These avr's are not plug and play.

Read the manual.

Set-up the avr following the instructions in the manual.

Start with setting all speakers SMALL, SW yes, and x-over @ 80.
 
N

Nestor

Senior Audioholic
Ok so i have read what all you have wrote, obviously i am wayyyyy out my league here so i really need you guys to help me out. First off i am not as into this as you guys are, you guys have these crazy expensive fantatic surround sound systems. I have beginners stuff. Would it help if i told you guys brand and model number of everything i have and post some pictures of how i have everything set up? i dont mind as long as i can get some good advice and guidance i dont mind sharing at all. I am all open for learning of this stuff. So the first thing i noticed, with my new recievcer is that yes the volume numbers are different as opposed to what my old one had. my old one had normal numbers 0-100 i think and thats it now the new one goes negative and positive all very confusing. I mean i go negative it gets louder. explain all this to me. I may end up returning it i mean i have 30 days and so far i am really not impressed with this reciever compared to my 10 year old one. Only differnce i have seen is the fact that the new one has HDMI and my old one has none so that is the only plus i have seen so far. Another thing i noticed which i dont know if its a defective reciever or something i am doing, but i wil turn it on , turn the TV on and set the reciever to TV and then by itself it will go to a different audio source and i will have to hit the TV button on the reciever again to be able to hear the TV. dont know if i eexplained that well, but whatever. So as far as speakers go, the Front left and front right are CR7 boston acoustic speakers, the center speaker is also a boston acoustic (i will get you the model number later, im writing this at work), the two back ones are also boston acoustic as well as the sub. The TV is a TOC samsung LCD 52 inch. i wil get more details on all this when i get home. but the main point is that i feel that i have to go turn that knob like crazy to get some loud sound to come out..i will give you guys numbers when i get home as far as volume goes...ok thats it for now
Check your receiver manual for "HDMI Control" and disable it. Your TV is controlling the AVR via your HDMI cable. Had a similar experience myself when I upgraded my TV.
 
zhimbo

zhimbo

Audioholic General
the main point is that i feel that i have to go turn that knob like crazy to get some loud sound to come out..
What does the volume display actually read when you get a reasonable volume?
 
J

Jarvis31

Enthusiast
ok as far as what number the volume is at regular everyday TV watching i would say if am alone in the dark watching TV volume is good at about -35......if i have a couple people over watching for example american idol i would say perhaps like a -15. If i am watching a movie on blueray with surround sound on and i want a movie theater experience i would say probably like a -1.0. This reciever supposedly has an automatic room adjusting feature...trying to figure that out now...let me know what you think about the numbers
 
Hi Ho

Hi Ho

Audioholic Samurai
Those are not unusual numbers. If it's loud enough at those volumes then what are you concerned about? Unless you are hearing distortion nothing is going to blow up. Remember, assuming it is calibrated, 0db is reference level. That is the level at which it is mixed in the studio.
 
J

Jarvis31

Enthusiast
ok so then my question is should i keep this reciever or return it for something better? or what? not sure what to do. Like i said i just bought this at bestbuy open item got for $279. Should i hold off and get something better or is this good enough and will last me a while?
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Those numbers you refer to are not absolute numbers.

-15 on one teceiver may be 0 on another, but they do not reflect the actual power output of the receiver for any useful comparison.

It's just like you have two receivers with analog (rotary) volume controls, both capable of 50 watts, and for the same volume level one would have their control set to 9:00 and the other has it set at 12:00.

It doesn't mean one is less powerful than the other; they will both put out the same maximum power. It's all in how they designed the receiver.

Likewise, there's no guarantee that your sources are outputting the same level to begin with. A weaker source signal will naturally require the volume level be set at a higher volume. It's just like going up a hill in a car; to maintain the same speed you have to give it more gas.
 
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J

Jarvis31

Enthusiast
OK so what are you saying? Not sure what you think i should do. Should i keep the reciever? is the one i bought a good one? is it a bad one? you guys know more about this stuff than me thats why i'm here.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
OK so what are you saying? Not sure what you think i should do. Should i keep the reciever? is the one i bought a good one? is it a bad one? you guys know more about this stuff than me thats why i'm here.
There is no simple answer.

It's a good one. Are ther better one's? Certainly.

If you can afford a better one, then get it.

But the fact is, you will want to upgrade it too. It's a never ending cycle.

Welcome to Audioholicism.:eek:
 
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