Vinyl sales double in 2008 (Nielsen)

dobyblue

dobyblue

Senior Audioholic
http://www.canada.com/topics/entertainment/music/story.html?id=1143511

A music-buying public enamoured of digital downloads may be abandoning the compact disc in droves, but one physical medium is staging a tiny comeback.

Amid otherwise gloomy music sales numbers released by Nielsen Co. this week, vinyl record sales doubled compared with the year before.

The number of long-play vinyl records sold in the United States rose to 1.88 million units, compared with 990,000 the year before.

"From what I'm gathering, strangely enough, it's the younger generation that are really kind of going back to (vinyl),'' said Roy Trakin, editor of the U.S. music industry website Hits.
And that 990,000 from 2007 was a 15% overall increase from 2006, so 2008 has really seen some leaps and bounds in vinyl sales.

The highest selling title was Radiohead's "In Rainbows", Abbey Road was 2nd.

CD sales were down 20% last year.

CD - 361 million
Digital Downloads - 66 million
Vinyl - 2 million
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
If you look at the numbers actually sold that you list, you can see that for most sales, CDs are still the format of choice, by a huge margin. CDs outsold digital downloads by a factor of more than 5 to 1, and CDs outsold vinyl by a factor of more than 180 to 1. In other words, for every digital download, more than 5 CD units were sold, and for every piece of vinyl sold, more than 180 CD units were sold. One should remember, twice nothing is still nothing, and although a million isn't literally nothing, it is pretty small in terms of overall music sales.

My guess is that the increase in vinyl sales is just a fad that will go away within a couple of years, though, of course, only time will tell. I would not want to invest my retirement in a company based solely on the vinyl format. You, however, may do as you wish regarding yours.
 
dobyblue

dobyblue

Senior Audioholic
If you look at the numbers actually sold that you list, you can see that for most sales, CDs are still the format of choice, by a huge margin.
Thanks Captain Obvious!

CDs outsold digital downloads by a factor of more than 5 to 1, and CDs outsold vinyl by a factor of more than 180 to 1.
Yes but two years ago CD's outsold vinyl by 1000's to 1. In other words CD declined in 2007 more than any year previously, 20%, while digital downloads INCREASED over 30% and vinyl increased 100%.

One should remember, twice nothing is still nothing
...but
although a million isn't literally nothing
,

bingo!

I would not want to invest my retirement in a company based solely on the vinyl format. You, however, may do as you wish regarding yours.
I would like to pretend I have the slightest clue what you're talking about, but I don't. What on Earth does your retirement have to do with buying music? What company is it you think anyone would be investing their retirement in by buying vinyl instead of CD? What company are you talking about whose future rests solely on vinyl? Mobile Fidelity? Sony? Warner? Pro-Ject? MMF? Goldmund? Why do you need to "invest" in that company to enjoy music????

(PS - it's not a fad, the DJ scene has kept vinyl alive for 20 years)
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
The point is, vinyl is still a fringe market, not a major format that interests most people. The sales would have to increase dramatically from the current amount for this to change. Given how small it is from a market-share standpoint, doubling is not very meaningful. If it doubled every year, it would take quite a few years before it was really mainstream.
 
dobyblue

dobyblue

Senior Audioholic
I still have no idea what that has to do with investing your retirement in a company.

The fact is, and given that this is AUDIOHOLICS it should be pertinent, most labels and major artists are acknowledging that the format is selling and has legs and for those people who can't buy new SACD or DVD-Audio material who don't find the current production of CD's to be at all interesting, they'd rather spend $20 buying the vinyl release than $20 buying the CD release.

Elementary.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
I still have no idea what that has to do with investing your retirement in a company.
You should reread the first sentence of the paragraph in which that appears. I am predicting that this increase will not continue for long.

I should point out that what I am talking about is market-share and what people buy. This is not an evaluation of the merits or lack thereof of any particular format. I very much like SACDs, but it is even more fringe than LPs are. I don't like "lossy" (please note that that is a different word from "lousy") downloads, but they are increasing at the moment. From a business standpoint, it is something in which it would be reasonable for a company to invest (that is, it would make sense for music companies to make such downloads available of the recordings in their catalogs), and, if such a company sold stock, investing in a company that is dealing with such things might be a good investment, because the future outlook appears to be favorable at the moment. Obviously, predicting the future is fraught with difficulties, and it could be that downloads will not increase in a manner that most seem to expect.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Its still too early in the game to call this a fad. Truth is, vinyl really never died or went away. People are looking for something more tangeable than a file stored on a hard drive. I'm not saying vinyl is that something tangeable. Time will tell. I for one am curious as hell as how this will all turn out excuse the pun!! :p
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Its still too early in the game to call this a fad. Truth is, vinyl really never died or went away. People are looking for something more tangeable than a file stored on a hard drive. I'm not saying vinyl is that something tangeable. Time will tell. I for one am curious as hell as how this will all turn out excuse the pun!! :p
Yes, vinyl never completely died. But it is close enough to dead to call it a fringe market. In the case of SACD and DVD-Audio, they never grew beyond a fringe market, and it looks like they will die in the not too distant future, or would except possibly for the fact that many SACDs are hybrid discs with CD layers playable on any CD player, and many (all?) DVD-Audio discs have DD soundtracks that are playable on any DVD player. Of course, you are right that one cannot be certain about the future, so only time will tell whether or not I am right about the increase in vinyl sales being merely a passing fad. You might want to revive this thread in five years, and if I turn out to be wrong, you can point it out at that time. Just to be perfectly clear, I am not predicting that there will be zero vinyl sales in 5 years; I am predicting that vinyl sales in 5 years will be less than it was last year.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Yes, vinyl never completely died. But it is close enough to dead to call it a fringe market. In the case of SACD and DVD-Audio, they never grew beyond a fringe market, and it looks like they will die in the not too distant future, or would except possibly for the fact that many SACDs are hybrid discs with CD layers playable on any CD player, and many (all?) DVD-Audio discs have DD soundtracks that are playable on any DVD player. Of course, you are right that one cannot be certain about the future, so only time will tell whether or not I am right about the increase in vinyl sales being merely a passing fad. You might want to revive this thread in five years, and if I turn out to be wrong, you can point it out at that time. Just to be perfectly clear, I am not predicting that there will be zero vinyl sales in 5 years; I am predicting that vinyl sales in 5 years will be less than it was last year.
Nah, I'm not one to say I told you so ;) :D
 
dobyblue

dobyblue

Senior Audioholic
Yeah you're right we should let this thread die, not talk and discuss any CURRENT events in music, and only see what happens several years into events.

I think you're better off posting in www.whatisrelevanttoj6p.com don't you think?

What an interesting forum this would be with you in charge!

The major labels are quite happy to support a format that costs them very little and one which is seeing returns. While artists like u2, The Verve, Radiohead, Oasis, etc., you know, major artists, are releasing their products on vinyl it is very much pertinent to discuss it.

None of those artists, barring Genesis, are releasing anything on any high resolution digital format yet we're quite happy to continue to discuss the merits of those recordings.

:rolleyes:
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Yeah you're right we should let this thread die, not talk and discuss any CURRENT events in music, and only see what happens several years into events.

I think you're better off posting in www.whatisrelevanttoj6p.com don't you think?

What an interesting forum this would be with you in charge!

The major labels are quite happy to support a format that costs them very little and one which is seeing returns. While artists like u2, The Verve, Radiohead, Oasis, etc., you know, major artists, are releasing their products on vinyl it is very much pertinent to discuss it.

None of those artists, barring Genesis, are releasing anything on any high resolution digital format yet we're quite happy to continue to discuss the merits of those recordings.

:rolleyes:
I say it is a passing fad. You evidently disagree. We can talk about it all we want, but that will not change the fact that the absolute proof will not come until a few years have past. In any case, I have not suggested that we don't talk about it.

As for what bands are available on vinyl, pretty much everything was at one time available on vinyl, yet people have mostly chosen other formats. A resurgence of sales has not altered that fact. And, since there is currently an increased interest in vinyl, it makes good business sense to have things available in that format, if it is expected to sell enough to be profitable. The music industry is just that, an industry, and their decisions are largely based upon what will make them the most money. They don't care whether one is buying LPs, CDs, SACDs, DVD-Audios, cassettes, 45s, 78s, or any other format. What they care about is people buying it, whatever it is, and they make things according to their expectations about what people will buy. And they want you to buy new, not used, so if there are enough people buying an old format, then they will be happy to make money off of them just like they are happy making money off of newer formats. If they did not make vinyl, the vinyl lovers would be buying used, which would not be getting them any more money. That is the worst possible outcome for them. I would expect vinyl manufacture to track the expected sales of the format, just like all of the others. The exception to this would be a company that is trying to push a format because they own some special rights to it and therefore have an interest in its success, but otherwise, they will make what they think will sell, and nothing else.
 
dobyblue

dobyblue

Senior Audioholic
I say it is a passing fad. You evidently disagree. We can talk about it all we want, but that will not change the fact that the absolute proof will not come until a few years have past. In any case, I have not suggested that we don't talk about it.

As for what bands are available on vinyl, pretty much everything was at one time available on vinyl, yet people have mostly chosen other formats. A resurgence of sales has not altered that fact. And, since there is currently an increased interest in vinyl, it makes good business sense to have things available in that format, if it is expected to sell enough to be profitable. The music industry is just that, an industry, and their decisions are largely based upon what will make them the most money. They don't care whether one is buying LPs, CDs, SACDs, DVD-Audios, cassettes, 45s, 78s, or any other format. What they care about is people buying it, whatever it is, and they make things according to their expectations about what people will buy. And they want you to buy new, not used, so if there are enough people buying an old format, then they will be happy to make money off of them just like they are happy making money off of newer formats. If they did not make vinyl, the vinyl lovers would be buying used, which would not be getting them any more money. That is the worst possible outcome for them. I would expect vinyl manufacture to track the expected sales of the format, just like all of the others. The exception to this would be a company that is trying to push a format because they own some special rights to it and therefore have an interest in its success, but otherwise, they will make what they think will sell, and nothing else.
Again, thanks Captain Obvious. I know how Zaphod Beeblebrox felt anytime he talked to humans.
 
john72953

john72953

Full Audioholic
Here's my 2 cents:

Vinyl NEVER died! Right now there is somewhat of a resurgence happening with the format, which I think is a wonderful thing. Obviously, the major record comps have realized this and have started to produce this format in quantity. That quantity won't ever equal to a scale it once dominated, but there is enough to keep it very healthy. I personally beleive the vinyl format will be around well past the death of CD, because that format is over and done with. The future of digital music is up in the air right now in terms of format. Will it be BD-Audio? Will it be a resurgence of SACD? Will it be something else? Heaven forbid the industry drops physical media entirely and focuses on downloads instead.

As an aside.....if vinyl does bite the bullit in the years to come, I'll get my fix from our European friends. Vinyl in Europe has always been active and it won't ever die there!
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Again, thanks Captain Obvious. I know how Zaphod Beeblebrox felt anytime he talked to humans.
Are you always this rude when someone explains something to you that you did not understand the first time? If the things I say are always so obvious, why is it that you have had trouble understanding them and have needed them to be explained to you?
 
dobyblue

dobyblue

Senior Audioholic
Are you always this rude when someone explains something to you that you did not understand the first time? If the things I say are always so obvious, why is it that you have had trouble understanding them and have needed them to be explained to you?
What exactly is it you're claiming I have misunderstood? You've got to be kidding me right?

You seem to be the only one misunderstanding just about everything posted in this thread. This is showing the 2008 sales, nothing more, yet you keep spieling off on some tangent about how the music industry works which nobody has questioned or posted anything about that would suggest they needed the most obvious of facts posted.

I stated that the music industry will support a format that is currently showing returns and you responded back with a far more verbose (and condescending) post that stated the exact same thing!

I posted the sales figures for 2008 clearly showing that CD still rules, but that vinyl had actually taken a percentage of sales worth mentioning, and you posted the exact same thing pointing out that CD sales were still #1, something only an idiot would not have gotten from the original post.

So yes, when someone is posting as pointlessly as you are with absolutely no recourse then I will respond in the manner I have. You haven't added anything to this thread at all. You've managed to turn a thread about vinyl, in which some people who enjoy the format MIGHT have discussed the current resurgence and their collections, into a total turd with YOU at the centre talking as though you were teaching kindergarten students.

Congrats.
 
C

cbags05

Audioholic Intern
"You spin me right round, baby...right round like a record, baby...Right round round round......"

This thread made me dizzy with all the bickering, but that's an interesting statistic.....so thank you DOBYBLUE
 
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