Vintage JBLs

[JunkYardDog]

I just recently lucked into a pair of very nice 60s era JBLs. They look exactly like the Olympus series, but these are custom made with slightly different cabinets. They are huge and they are absolute tanks. All of the drivers work well.

They look exactly like these but with slightly different cabinets. The drivers are all identical as is the hardware on the backs.

So, my dilemma is that I don't know what to drive these things with. Any advice would be appreciated. My budget is limited, but I could save for the amp.

I am currently using a Marantz 2275 and it's a tad shrill at times.

Thoughts? Ideas?

 

[TLS Guy]

I just recently lucked into a pair of very nice 60s era JBLs. They look exactly like the Olympus series, but these are custom made with slightly different cabinets. They are huge and they are absolute tanks. All of the drivers work well.

They look exactly like these but with slightly different cabinets. The drivers are all identical as is the hardware on the backs.

So, my dilemma is that I don't know what to drive these things with. Any advice would be appreciated. My budget is limited, but I could save for the amp.

I am currently using a Marantz 2275 and it's a tad shrill at times.

Thoughts? Ideas?

I remember those well. They sound horrid and shrill whatever you drive them with. They are sensitive and efficient, so it won't matter what you drive them with. They will sound the same.

 

[Ponzio]

I remember those well. They sound horrid and shrill whatever you drive them with. They are sensitive and efficient, so it won't matter what you drive them with. They will sound the same.

But really, tell us how you really feel.

They look very similar to the JBL C-51 Apollo Speakers S7 Load Walnut/Lattice models from the mid-70's a friend of mine owns, without the fins, and they do not sound "horrid and shrill" by any means. I tried to convince him for ages to sell them to me without any luck. He had them re-foamed in 2002 and they still sound fantastic.

 

[crossedover]

looks like the exact same speakers someone was unloading in 09 off of ebay. 1962 JBL C50 S8 Olympus post 11....

 

[markw]

JBL's of that era had a certain "presence" to them that some people didn't cater to. Again, others loved it.

That's the basic differencn between the "west coast" and "east coast" schools of speaker design.

 

[TLS Guy]

But really, tell us how you really feel.

They look very similar to the JBL C-51 Apollo Speakers S7 Load Walnut/Lattice models from the mid-70's a friend of mine owns, without the fins, and they do not sound "horrid and shrill" by any means. I tried to convince him for ages to sell them to me without any luck. He had them re-foamed in 2002 and they still sound fantastic.

The problem is those Olympus speakers had a fundamental problem. The bass section has one active driver and one passive radiator which is why they look different. Depending on iteration the bullet tweeter is different and possibly the crossover. The fundamental problem is that the woofer crosses over to the horn at 500 Hz. That horn is much too small for that and does not have a mouth width to go down that far. Cut off of a horn is determined by the width of the mouth.

In the later 70s iteration, a midrange driver was added, which should have been done in the first place, and the drivers became active with porting.

These were better, but I never rated that series as good. In fairness they started out before Thiel/Small and before CAD crossovers. So pretty much all speakers were designed by instinct and ear. There was very little science to it. It was Raymond Cooke at KEF that first started to change that. This approach was slow coming to the US and designs significantly lagged UK designs for a long time.

 

[JunkYardDog]

The problem is those Olympus speakers had a fundamental problem. The bass section has one active driver and one passive radiator which is why they look different. Depending on iteration the bullet tweeter is different and possibly the crossover. The fundamental problem is that the woofer crosses over to the horn at 500 Hz. That horn is much too small for that and does not have a mouth width to go down that far. Cut off of a horn is determined by the width of the mouth.

In the later 70s iteration, a midrange driver was added, which should have been done in the first place, and the drivers became active with porting.

These were better, but I never rated that series as good. In fairness they started out before Thiel/Small and before CAD crossovers. So pretty much all speakers were designed by instinct and ear. There was very little science to it. It was Raymond Cooke at KEF that first started to change that. This approach was slow coming to the US and designs significantly lagged UK designs for a long time.

Nice setup!

Yeah, I have a lot of stuff kicking around. I have a pair of Thiels and some nice vintage stuff by Vandersteen and Advent and on and on. The Olympus' that I have were made back in the late 60's by a pretty serious audiophile at that time, so they really aren't olympus'. JBL sold the individual parts as well as whole kits. Mine were crafted that way.

Anyway, the gent (and he really was) who made them, was a friend's father. I grew up listening to these speakers on weekends and the family gave them to me because they had no space for them. They used to be hooked up to a Macintosh that I did not get. They always sounded really really good. I'd like to get them sounding as good as I can.

Any idea what I might aim for … to get the best out of these?

I'm keeping them for sentimental reasons so I can be patient. It's also a plus that my wife thinks they look nice.

 

[TLS Guy]

Nice setup!

Yeah, I have a lot of stuff kicking around. I have a pair of Thiels and some nice vintage stuff by Vandersteen and Advent and on and on. The Olympus' that I have were made back in the late 60's by a pretty serious audiophile at that time, so they really aren't olympus'. JBL sold the individual parts as well as whole kits. Mine were crafted that way.

Anyway, the gent (and he really was) who made them, was a friend's father. I grew up listening to these speakers on weekends and the family gave them to me because they had no space for them. They used to be hooked up to a Macintosh that I did not get. They always sounded really really good. I'd like to get them sounding as good as I can.

Any idea what I might aim for … to get the best out of these?

I'm keeping them for sentimental reasons so I can be patient. It's also a plus that my wife thinks they look nice.

I think you have heard more modern speakers now. A vintage tube amp that roll off the high end might help a bit, but you could do it cheaper with an equalizer and it would probably be a better solution.

A new crossover design, raising the woofer/horn crossover to 1200 Hz or so would likely help. That would be a big undertaking though to really get it right.

You really will not get those speakers to sound like what is available today. They just have so many design features about them, that we now know are dead wrong.

 

[Swerd]

It may be possible to design new crossovers for those speakers, if you're interested. It will require computer based measurement and design software and a measurement rig to test what would work with those speakers.

Try posting about these speakers on Tech Talk Forum, where many DIY speaker designers hang out.

Depending on where you live, you may find some one nearby who is interested. Those speakers look large and heavy, so I'd guess a computer and measuring gear might be more portable than one of those speakers.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have had one other thought. Depending on vintage, those speakers are very likely 16 ohm. So you could be running your Marantz into voltage clipping.

The crossover model number on the back will help you sort this. The 16 and 8 ohm speakers obviously have different crossovers. If this is early sixties, these speakers will be 16 ohm. If that is the case you need a tube amp with a 16 ohm tap on the output transformer. If that is the case I would try and pick up a Dynaco tube amp and pre amp, if you can find one.

 

[JunkYardDog]

I have had one other thought. Depending on vintage, those speakers are very likely 16 ohm. So you could be running your Marantz into voltage clipping.

The crossover model number on the back will help you sort this. The 16 and 8 ohm speakers obviously have different crossovers. If this is early sixties, these speakers will be 16 ohm. If that is the case you need a tube amp with a 16 ohm tap on the output transformer. If that is the case I would try and pick up a Dynaco tube amp and pre amp, if you can find one.

Interesting, and thanks. Just to be clear, they were unhooked for about four years (until last month) but were kept in a very dry place. Apart from that, they were used constantly for decades and have held up very well.

They actually sound pretty good with jazz and soul but rock, especially digital-sourced rock gets a bit shrill.

I have a taste for nice sound, and have a few nice sounding rigs, but I am far from an audiophile. I just want an idea of how to get these sounding as good as I can. These are very different from the rest of my collection.

I will definitely look into the ohm issue.

Thanks, again.

 

[TLS Guy]

Interesting, and thanks. Just to be clear, they were unhooked for about four years (until last month) but were kept in a very dry place. Apart from that, they were used constantly for decades and have held up very well.

They actually sound pretty good with jazz and soul but rock, especially digital-sourced rock gets a bit shrill.

I have a taste for nice sound, and have a few nice sounding rigs, but I am far from an audiophile. I just want an idea of how to get these sounding as good as I can. These are very different from the rest of my collection.

I will definitely look into the ohm issue.

Thanks, again.

Different is "Minnesota speak" for lousy. I bet they do sound "different" to the other speakers.

 

[JunkYardDog]

Different is "Minnesota speak" for lousy. I bet they do sound "different" to the other speakers.

Actually, no. They have some very nice depth to them and bring out some lovely texture in certain things.