Video processing - Where should it occur?

[bborzell]

My OPPO BDP-83 obviously processes video. At the moment, it runs via HDMI to my projector. I had originally figured that this was a necessity because my Rotel RSP-1066 doesn't do HDMI. With this setup, the video quality is outstanding for both BD and SD DVDs.

I'm ready to buy a new Pre/Pro that has a suitable number of HDMI inputs, but I'm not sure about running the OPPO through the new Pre/Pro because it is not clear to me that using the video processing of a Pre/Pro or ARV adds anything to the quality of the Video signal. In fact, given all the variability in processing units available today, who's to say that signal degradation is not a reasonable possibility as opposed to simply running from the player to the projector (or any other display)?

Is there any kind of standard that defaults to the most potent or advanced technology when the signal path includes dueling video processors?

 

[bandphan]

My OPPO BDP-83 obviously processes video. At the moment, it runs via HDMI to my projector. I had originally figured that this was a necessity because my Rotel RSP-1066 doesn't do HDMI. With this setup, the video quality is outstanding for both BD and SD DVDs.

I'm ready to buy a new Pre/Pro that has a suitable number of HDMI inputs, but I'm not sure about running the OPPO through the new Pre/Pro because it is not clear to me that using the video processing of a Pre/Pro or ARV adds anything to the quality of the Video signal. In fact, given all the variability in processing units available today, who's to say that signal degradation is not a reasonable possibility as opposed to simply running from the player to the projector (or any other display)?

Is there any kind of standard that defaults to the most potent or advanced technology when the signal path includes dueling video processors?

what FP do you have? what pre/pro are you looking at? There are a couple of stand alone video processors under 1k that might be considered..

 

[bborzell]

what FP do you have? what pre/pro are you looking at? There are a couple of stand alone video processors under 1k that might be considered..

Sorry, I don't know what FP stands for. As for an outboard video processor, that would seem to add more complexity to a question that I am already unclear on.

Why not simply use the video processor on the OPPO?

I have been considering an Emotiva UMC-1 when it is released.

 

[bandphan]

Sorry, I don't know what FP stands for. As for an outboard video processor, that would seem to add more complexity to a question that I am already unclear on.

Why not simply use the video processor on the OPPO?

I have been considering an Emotiva UMC-1 when it is released.

FP= front projector. Yes the oppos VP is very good, however a list of gear would help. Most AVRs do not provide better video processing than their components. Outboard processing is becoming less expensive and should be a consideration when making purchases with regards to FP especially.

 

[bborzell]

FP= front projector. Yes the oppos VP is very good, however a list of gear would help. Most AVRs do not provide better video processing than their components. Outboard processing is becoming less expensive and should be a consideration when making purchases with regards to FP especially.

OK, here's the list:

FP - Optima HD73
Pre/pro (current) - Rotel RSP-1066
Pre/Pro (proposed) - Emotiva umc-1
BD player - OPPO BDP-83

What outboard processors are you referring to? Can my equipment turn of their individual processing and defer to an outboard processor?

 

[bandphan]

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54320

http://www.anchorbaytech.com/dvdo_edge/

 

[lsiberian]

OK, here's the list:

FP - Optoma HD73
Pre/pro (current) - Rotel RSP-1066
Pre/Pro (proposed) - Emotiva umc-1
BD player - OPPO BDP-83

What outboard processors are you referring to? Can my equipment turn of their individual processing and defer to an outboard processor?

I think your Projector won't benefit from upgraded video processing because it's a native 720p projector according to projector central .

Additionally HDMI is unnecessary see below for explanation.

RSP-1066 surround preamp-processor

Analog inputs: 8 RCA line-level (2-channel), RCA (7-channel

(from http://www.ultimateavmag.com/surroundsoundpreampprocessors/85/index2.html)

As you can see the oppo has analog outputs and your pre-processor has the inputs. To get HD audio you simply need to run RCA type cables between your blu-ray players analog out section and pre-processors analog in section.

Your oppo will process all the new formats for you and do as good of a job as anything else out there because they will use the best chips available to them at the price point. If you need additional HDMI inputs I suggest you pick up a manual switch at monoprice.com

In conclusion keep your stuff and don't look to upgrade. Unless you just don't like your rotel.
If you have additional questions feel free to ask.

 

[bborzell]

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54320

http://www.anchorbaytech.com/dvdo_edge/

Thanks, this has been helpful. Predictably, it raises additional questions. Both the DVDO and the OPPO BDP-83 feature Anchor Bay VRS technology. Is there a way to determine whether the outboard version is superior to the builtin version in the OPPO (prior to purchase)? The Emotiva UMC-1 will feature a Genesis Torino high performance video scaling engine. Is that technology comparable to the AB VRS?

How might one determine whether any of these features in a system will work better than any of the others (before purchasing, I might add)?

One place where the DVDO Edge might be of particular value is in processing the SD signal from Dish Network which is currently so compressed that it is barely watchable at 120". But, maybe the UNC-1 with Genesis will help that SD signal just as well as the DVDO with VRS?

Short of buying all this stuff and running tests, it seems that comparisons of respective new video processing capabilities might be hit and miss.

 

[bborzell]

I think your Projector won't benefit from upgraded video processing because it's a native 720p projector according to projector central .

Additionally HDMI is unnecessary see below for explanation.

RSP-1066 surround preamp-processor

Analog inputs: 8 RCA line-level (2-channel), RCA (7-channel

(from http://www.ultimateavmag.com/surroundsoundpreampprocessors/85/index2.html)

As you can see the oppo has analog outputs and your pre-processor has the inputs. To get HD audio you simply need to run RCA type cables between your blu-ray players analog out section and pre-processors analog in section.

Your oppo will process all the new formats for you and do as good of a job as anything else out there because they will use the best chips available to them at the price point. If you need additional HDMI inputs I suggest you pick up a manual switch at monoprice.com

In conclusion keep your stuff and don't look to upgrade. Unless you just don't like your rotel.
If you have additional questions feel free to ask.

Thanks. This too is helpful. The setup you describe is what I am running at this time. You are right about the Optima being 720p native.

I wonder if the quality of Sat SD signals might be improved by a more advanced processor (either outboard or in a new pro/pro) over the highly compressed SD signal that Dish Network currently sends? At 120", it is barely watchable.

 

[lsiberian]

Thanks. This too is helpful. The setup you describe is what I am running at this time. You are right about the Optima being 720p native.

I wonder if the quality of Sat SD signals might be improved by a more advanced processor (either outboard or in a new pro/pro) over the highly compressed SD signal that Dish Network currently sends? At 120", it is barely watchable.

I don't think it will help much. I don't even have cable or satellite anymore. I use an HD tuner and watch OTA. I want U-Verse or FIOS. Those are supposed to have the best hd channels.

 

[bborzell]

I don't think it will help much. I don't even have cable or satellite anymore. I use an HD tuner and watch OTA. I want U-Verse or FIOS. Those are supposed to have the best hd channels.

We are out of luck on both counts. Too far away for OTA and our phone system is one step advanced from party lines; won't even handle DSL. Verizon touts FIOS in literature in our monthly bills but won't raise a finger to improve the wiring out our way.

 

[mtrycrafts]

My OPPO BDP-83 obviously processes video. At the moment, it runs via HDMI to my projector. I had originally figured that this was a necessity because my Rotel RSP-1066 doesn't do HDMI. With this setup, the video quality is outstanding for both BD and SD DVDs.

I'm ready to buy a new Pre/Pro that has a suitable number of HDMI inputs, but I'm not sure about running the OPPO through the new Pre/Pro because it is not clear to me that using the video processing of a Pre/Pro or ARV adds anything to the quality of the Video signal. In fact, given all the variability in processing units available today, who's to say that signal degradation is not a reasonable possibility as opposed to simply running from the player to the projector (or any other display)?

Is there any kind of standard that defaults to the most potent or advanced technology when the signal path includes dueling video processors?

In your case, you would benefit from a new processor with the capability of processing the hi def audio that is available through the HDMI cable. The Oppo would still do the video processing but the new processor would handle the audio.

This new processor would stay in place if and when you upgrade to an 1080p video projector.

By the way, most players do a very good or excellent job of video processing

 

[allargon]

I don't think it will help much. I don't even have cable or satellite anymore. I use an HD tuner and watch OTA. I want U-Verse or FIOS. Those are supposed to have the best hd channels.

FIOS has the best HD PQ, as they don't recompress. U-verse is actually towards the bottom of the PQ heap.

Standalone video processing is good when the native display has bad processing and/or the source isn't very good (e.g. SD cable/sat, SD video games via composite, DVD from an old/non upscaling player, VHS, Laserdisc, Netflix streaming, YouTube, etc.). There is very little benefit from performing video processing/scaling on HD sources like Blu-Ray, HD DVD, D-VHS, HD OTA or even HD sat/cable/IPTV.

 

[jostenmeat]

Thanks, this has been helpful. Predictably, it raises additional questions. Both the DVDO and the OPPO BDP-83 feature Anchor Bay VRS technology. Is there a way to determine whether the outboard version is superior to the builtin version in the OPPO (prior to purchase)? The Emotiva UMC-1 will feature a Genesis Torino high performance video scaling engine. Is that technology comparable to the AB VRS?

Not until someone does a controlled comparison. But, as you've already figured out, the outboard device will do more than DVDs.

How might one determine whether any of these features in a system will work better than any of the others (before purchasing, I might add)?

I find that it's always said if you want the best VP, you must get an outboard device. Sure, you can find top notch VP in receivers that cost several thousands, but that chunk of change towards a dedicated VP is only better. With top of the line items such as the Radiance XD, you have CMS control for color correction, something that I would benefit from. Of course, it's not worth it to me, and it would be strange to pay more for the VP than my projector.

One place where the DVDO Edge might be of particular value is in processing the SD signal from Dish Network which is currently so compressed that it is barely watchable at 120". But, maybe the UNC-1 with Genesis will help that SD signal just as well as the DVDO with VRS?

Poop in, poop out. However, I know with the DVDO, you can apply EE or DNR to your STB signals. This kind of stuff is normally unwanted or frowned upon for videophile blurays, but poopy sat signals are another story.

Short of buying all this stuff and running tests, it seems that comparisons of respective new video processing capabilities might be hit and miss.

It's just like anything else. There are value propositions, but you get what you pay for. If getting a pre/pro, yeah look towards VP, in your case. Just don't expect it to be just as good with video, when compared to an identically priced VP.

I'm sure you would agree with me that at a certain point it would be more prudent to just upgrade the projector itself, rather than the processor. Just as it would be silly to buy a new fancy $1,000 DVD player for an older 720p flat panel.

 

[Davemcc]

I've had a chance to play with some video processing since I got the Reon equipped Integra. I found it best to leave the processor in pass through mode yet I still get a better picture than when switching through my previous Denon. I've come to the conclusion that the best one can hope for is to do no harm to the video signal. I feed it the best signal I can and I'm confident that with the Reon processor, there is no degradation of the signal in the processing.

My display seems to do a fine job of scaling the image to it's native resolution. If I were using a PJ that didn't do the scaling for me, I would be very comfortable using the Reon to do that processing in the Integra or Onkyo products. On the other hand, that capability may be wasted on a 720p PJ.

 

[lsiberian]

I've had a chance to play with some video processing since I got the Reon equipped Integra. I found it best to leave the processor in pass through mode yet I still get a better picture than when switching through my previous Denon. I've come to the conclusion that the best one can hope for is to do no harm to the video signal. I feed it the best signal I can and I'm confident that with the Reon processor, there is no degradation of the signal in the processing.

My display seems to do a fine job of scaling the image to it's native resolution. If I were using a PJ that didn't do the scaling for me, I would be very comfortable using the Reon to do that processing in the Integra or Onkyo products. On the other hand, that capability may be wasted on a 720p PJ.

I had been waiting to hear on this. Thanks for sharing on the Reon.

 

[PENG]

There is very little benefit from performing video processing/scaling on HD sources like Blu-Ray, HD DVD, D-VHS, HD OTA or even HD sat/cable/IPTV.

That has been my experience too. For real life materials, Reon, ABT or whatever, do not seem to matter. It is the media player as a whole that has most impact on the final PQ. If the player is good, you can hook it up to any receiver or direct to TV and the PQ will be good. If the player is bad, you feed the signal through any VP, the PQ will still be bad.

That being said, in general Reon equipped units tend to yield better results in HQV tests. For some reasons people (including me until now) are paying too much attention to the VP in receivers, not realizing they really can't help that much regardless.

 

[Davemcc]

For some reasons people (including me until now) are paying too much attention to the VP in receivers, not realizing they really can't help that much regardless.

Yes, that describes me at one point not so long ago. But I do realize now that poor video processing in receivers can be a detriment to quality video switching and that alone makes getting a receiver with good quality video a priority even if running in pass through mode.

 

[PENG]

But I do realize now that poor video processing in receivers can be a detriment to quality video switching and that alone makes getting a receiver with good quality video a priority even if running in pass through mode.

That is very interesting. I have experienced no difference in PQ between pass through and direct to the TV, so I use pass through just for the convenience of the switching feature. As far as I know, in pass through the video converter is turned off, so I don't understand why it would affect the video quality, unless the receiver is getting old to the point the switching contacts have excessive wear and tear and/or dirt on them resulting in signal degradation. In fact a couple of years ago I did see some degradation briefly in one of the inputs of my old 3808 but it managed to clear itself after a few more switching and the problem never returned.

 

[Davemcc]

The Denon I used previously was a 2307 that had little to no video processing at all. Yet I noticed an immediate improvement in image quality when switching to the Integra. I'm not sure that older Denon model was signal neutral in it's pass through video processing.