Velodyne DD-10 or DD-12...help me decide!

[pearsall001]

I've narrowed it down to either of these two subs. The specs are almost identical for the two so I have to wonder what does the DD-12 bring to the table over the DD-10 to warrant the price difference. My room is approx 3000 cubic feet (13x32x7). I will be using the sub for two channel listening. My mains are AAD 2001 monitors. Thanks for any info you can throw my way.

 

[mike c]

i replied on your avs thread. but put simply:

12 over the 10
15 over the 12
18 over the 15
and dual 18 over the single 18

if you get the pattern, that would mean you should buy the 18

I had the 18 in a 2600 cubic foot room, it's not overkill, it's headroom. plus the fact, I'm pretty sure I get a full range signal (meaning up to 15hz)

remember, the DD series will compress easily due to its servo, it will shave off the low end in higher drive levels. the smaller your driver, the earlier it does this and the higher up the frequency it will shave off.

 

[j_garcia]

Yeah, what he said... In a 3000cf room, even the 15 isn't going to bowl you over due to the sealed and very accurate nature of their sound. I personally prefer a nice vented sub overall, though with music a good sealed, servo sub is definitely worth it. For what you are going to spend on the 12 though, I would say there are other options out there that will get you more for less (not that there is anything wrong with Velo).

 

[pearsall001]

My options are limited due to placement issues. The DD-10 & DD-12 fit the bill perfectly. Anything over 16.5" tall just won't work. I've looked at a lot of other companies & they all tend to be too large for my placement. I wish I could go bigger, but it's not going to happen.

 

[j_garcia]

Have you looked at this one?

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-sb12plus.cfm

 

[gus6464]

Have you looked at this one?

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-sb12plus.cfm

You really can't compare the DD-12 and the SB12 when it comes to extension. The Velo simply outclasses it as seen by these graphs.

Velo
http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=18355&start=0&rid=0&SQ=0

SVS
http://www.svsound.com/products/subs/sb12plus/sb12plus_fr_smooth_popup_307.jpg

 

[mike c]

My options are limited due to placement issues. The DD-10 & DD-12 fit the bill perfectly. Anything over 16.5" tall just won't work. I've looked at a lot of other companies & they all tend to be too large for my placement. I wish I could go bigger, but it's not going to happen.

then aside from DIY, the DD12 is the best you can get for a 14.5" height restriction

what's your maximum width and depth?

 

[pearsall001]

then aside from DIY, the DD12 is the best you can get for a 14.5" height restriction

what's your maximum width and depth?

I'm maxed out at 17" for both width & depth. Along with my height max of 16.5" that really limits my options. So far the DD-10 & DD-12 are really looking good as far as placement & their performance.

Do you happen to have something else in mind for me to look at? Thanks

 

[mike c]

i don't know, 16.5 x 17 x 17 are pretty small dimensions even for DIY. maybe you should check out the Rythmik Audio, they have a 15" kit there that maybe when paired with Velodyne SMS-1 give you almost the same performance for a lot less money.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/DS15.html

even the JL Audio F110 exceed one of your dimensions: 15.64 in x 12.92 in. x 17.27 in

go for the DD12 knowing there's nothing better for the size you can get!

 

[j_garcia]

You really can't compare the DD-12 and the SB12 when it comes to extension. The Velo simply outclasses it as seen by these graphs.

Velo
http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=18355&start=0&rid=0&SQ=0

SVS
http://www.svsound.com/products/subs/sb12plus/sb12plus_fr_smooth_popup_307.jpg

While I do believe what is said, the servo nature of the DD-12 means it won't actually have a lot of tactile feel down low, though it should also be more accurate than the SVS for the same reason. I was impressed with the DD-15, but the output suffered greatly with the SMS performing the corrections in the room I heard it in - that will vary greatly depending on the room it is is placed in and were/how it is placed in that room. I am not saying the SVS will be better, I am saying it will still be very good and won't cost as much...

Could you explain the restriction, as placing a sub into another enclosure is never really a good idea, though doing so with a sealed sub is at least the best route if this is a necessity.

 

[Exit]

I would recommend the 12" sub over the 10" sub because your room is good sized and you will need to move as much air volume as possible (given your subwoofer space limitations) in order to get sufficient sound pressure levels in the room at the lower frequencies.

 

[Andreas]

No replacement for displacement.

True statement for muscle cars and with Subs too no doubt.

 

[Mark1983]

I just received my SB12 last week and an very impressed with it. My mains are Mirage M5si's, which to my ears have pretty decent bass themselves. I wanted the sub for home theater, although I'm not really into that, but more importantly for stereo listening.

For me a sub more times than not does more harm than good. But as a professional bass player I am very critical to being able to not hear a coherent picture from the speaker/sub combination. Everyone's preferences are of course different and valid.

That being said I only wanted the sub to carry the lowest frequencies, the really low stuff that my Mirage's aren't adept at handling. When set correctly I can't hear the sub at all, it just gives the mains a little more weight. I personally think a subwoofer needs to stay really low and be operated with a full range speaker to work well in a two channel music set up. Again, just my opinion.

I also prefer sealed designs with smaller woofers, like the 10's in my 4x10 SWR bass rig. They don't get the room going like 15's or larger woofers and seem to "sound" faster to me, if that is possible. Again, to me. A 15' speaker in a bass amp has a different, but still nice sound as well, I just prefer the multiple 10" driver arrangement.

My room is quite large, around 30x30 and this little SVS SB12 does the job nicely. I guess I don't listen that loud or need that much bass. I'd have to get some more powerful speakers to keep up with the bottom end if I had gotten a bigger sub. Right now with most of the music I listen to the mains give out before the sub does. Of course I can find a track here or there that will flatten the sub but I can count those on one hand (okay maybe two) and the reproduction is still excellent if I'm not in the "analytical" mode.

So anyway I would have a good listen to your current system, without the sub, and think about how much of the bottom end are they really lacking? Do you want a bottom end that whacks you in the gut like you are in club or do you want one that is simply more fleshed out than what your present speakers can do?

Good luck with your purchase and let us know how it works out.

- Mark

 

[Exit]

Originally you said the choice was between a Velodyne 10" and 12" subwoofer for space constraints. I would just add that there is probably no one who regrets buying too much subwoofer, but there are a lot of people who regret buying too little subwoofer. Some have observed that maybe a 12" subwoofer is not enough for your room size. That is another reason for going with the larger subwoofer.

 

[Herr D]

what about the Velodyne SPL series? They're cheaper, smaller but sound pretty good

 

[Highbar]

Why are you restricted to such a small area? I'm just wondering.

I'd say always go with the bigger sub.

T

 

[leo1058]

wise words

 

[pearsall001]

what about the Velodyne SPL series? They're cheaper, smaller but sound pretty good

Well, I did go with the Velo SPL-1200R after a few conversations directly with folks at Velodyne. On their recommendation I went with the SPL-1200R over the DD-12. In a nut shell here's what they said. The DD-12 is without a doubt a better sub, but with my room being 3000cu ft the SPL-1200R would do a better job for me. The DD-12 is servo controled which makes the sub work a lot harder, (for my room they would like to see me use a DD-15 but it just wouldn't fit) I give up the servo & a more sophisticated room correction program with the DD-12 but they also told me that if I did a side by side comparison it would be almost impossible to hear any difference between the two. They are both just as "musical". My order is placed & waiting delivery.

 

[Herr D]

That makes perfect sense to me. Congratulations on your purchase!