upgrading receiver for 7.2 system... but which one?

[chuck10553]

So i currently have a yamaha RX-V663 which is a 7.2 (4x ns-333 1x ns-c444 2x ns-555). Love it and never had a problem with it but i want to upgrade it as i want to option be able to expand my system. The 663 has set inputs for each input (input 1 has hdmi1 component 1 and rca 1 connected to it) whereas the new ones i see you can choose which hdmi and which component and everything. Im not really sure how nice i need to go or what some of the options are so i just looked at yamaha (as i never had a problem with either of the yamahas i have had), denon, and harman kardon. with harman kardon i noticed that they dont have any 7.2 receivers... am i missing something? i did look briefly at the AVR 2650 but dont really know much about it... for denon i was looking at the AVR 2312CI for yamaha i looked at the RX-A810... not sure if there are other brands i should look at that have similar features or which of these have pros and cons or which of these brands have pros or cons... any help would be wonderful!

Thanks

 

[Adam]

There are plenty of good receivers out there. I'll throw Pioneer into the mix, if they match the features that you want.

I mostly want to point this out - the RX-V663 has two subwoofer outputs, but both output the same signal. So, the ".2" feature is handy, but it's no different than connecting a simple y-splitter to any ".1" receiver.

So, please don't limit your search to "7.2" receivers. You can get a suitable splitter for under $1.

 

[cpp]

There are so many good AVR's out in today's market place. Yamaha RX-A line, the Denons xx12CI series, Marantz, Pioneer Elite, the NAD, Cambridge, Rotel what is your budget ?
How many watts do you need to drive your speakers, what are your speakers ?

 

[chuck10553]

as far as power my speakers do a nominal of about 100 watts for my front and center and 60 nominal with 150 peak for my surrounds and surround backs. im looking at receivers around 700-800 but i would probably need to get a good deal on it either way... which i am usually pretty good at lol

thanks again!

 

[TLCole425]

I'm in the same boat.. kinda

Had an Onkyo reciever from an Home theater in a box solution. The internal HDMI switch quit functioning and I had no paitence for waiting 3 weeks for a repair. I went to 6th Ave Electronics and was sold a Pioneer Elite VSX-33. Hooked it up and noticed I have to crank the volume quite a bit (over 3/4 the way up) to get it to a listing volume. Started doing my homework (which I should have done BEFORE I bought the Pioneer {The Onkyo was bought based on budget not specs}) and found out about speaker sensitivity. OK so instead of the bargin Onkyo speakers in a box I went with a pair of the Verus Grand towers by Aperion and the matching center channel. BIG upgrade I know. However still with the volume issue. So I chat with Aperion tech guys and they school me on descrite apmlification channels and how the Pioneer falls short. So now I need to upgrade the AMP once more. So I am researching this to the fullest. I find three. The one Aperion recomends - Marantz SR7005, or the others such as a Yamaha RX-A3000, or the Denon AVR-4311CI.
What DONT want to do is waste any more oney on equiptment that will fall short and not really provide grat sounding full bodied Music and a complete movie experience.
As I have yet to replace the rest of the Onkyo speakers (expensive and all) I have been concentrating on just the Music quality so most tests have been in just Stereo.
The other piece I am looking for insight on is a Sub but right now I just want to make the right choice in Amps and work from there.

 

[Adam]

Welcome to the forum!

I'm guessing so, but did you run the auto setup routine on the VSX-33? If so, then 0 dB on the volume display should equate to whatever Pioneer sets as their reference level, probably an average output level of 85 dB. The negative values displayed on the front of the receiver are relative to that. So, "-30 dB" equates to an average output level of 55 dB (using the example of 85 dB as the reference level).

What do you mean by the volume being "3/4 the way up?"

 

[TLCole425]

thank you for your quick response. I hope I am simply missing something simple.
I ran the MACC setup with the Microphone if that is what you mean yes. So with the volume starting at -100 to listen to music at a volume just a touch above speaking volume it rides around -30. That means from -100 -90 -80 -70 -60 -50 -40 to -30 all used up. All that is left is -20 -10. About 1/4 of the volume range.
Years ago I sold electronic many many many years ago.... Ok so I'm old. LOL
Anyway I ran Cherwin Vegas through much cheaper amps and had much more umm throttle response?

 

[Adam]

I ran the MACC setup with the Microphone if that is what you mean yes. So with the volume starting at -100 to listen to music at a volume just a touch above speaking volume it rides around -30. That means from -100 -90 -80 -70 -60 -50 -40 to -30 all used up. All that is left is -20 -10. About 1/4 of the volume range.

So, the 33 goes down to -100 dB? Interesting. 0 dB is no sound at all, so perhaps their 0 dB reference is 100 dB these days. That would surprise me, as THX reference level is 85 dB average. My VSX-23 goes down to -80 dB, so I'm guessing my 0 dB reference is 80 dB.

Anyway, a bit of information on how dB relate to power. To increase sound by 10 dB (quoted by some as being twice as loud) takes ten times the power. So, going from -30 dB to 0 dB on your volume scale is 1000 times more power to be eight times as loud. If the 120 W RMS rating is at reference volume, that means that you're using on the order of 0.1 W when listening at a touch above speaking volume. That's in line with a lot of what I've read in the past. Speakers are often rated at between 80-90 dB at 1 meter away when 1 W is put through them. (But to go up 10 dB would take 100 W).

How does your system sound when you turn the volume up more?

EDIT: I just read your edit, and I see that your reference is older systems. In the past (at least my receivers back in the 80s and 90s), the volume knob wasn't relative to some reference level (because they didn't use to have microphones that could measure how loud a system was and digitally adjust the control). From what I was told back then, a lot of those systems were pretty much maxed out in power at about halfway around the dial, so perhaps it's just a matter of getting used to the new approach.

 

[DD66000]

For an AVR in the $700~800 range there is the HK 7550HD, these are close out prices of a $3000 unit. From what I've been reading, everyone who has bought one can hardly believe how good it really is, and $700~800 is a steal.

 

[zhimbo]

So with the volume starting at -100 to listen to music at a volume just a touch above speaking volume it rides around -30. That means from -100 -90 -80 -70 -60 -50 -40 to -30 all used up. All that is left is -20 -10. About 1/4 of the volume range.

This is as it should be. You aren't meant to use the full range. Informally speaking, in a properly set up system 0db is "as loud as you want to go", and the dB reading indicates how much below this "maximum" volume you are. 30dB of attenuation below maximum (-30dB) is going to be fairly quiet for most audio.

This is a pretty good explanation:
http://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/products/articles/498440.html

...or at least the best I've found.

 

[sholling]

If you just need more inputs then the cheap solution is an HTMI switch. You can buy a 4 port HDMI switch for $50 or less. If you just need to connect 2 subwoofers then a $5 splitter will do the trick. Problem solved for $55. You can even automate the switching action with your Harmony remote. If you don't have a Harmony remote then you've saved enough that now you can afford one.

If the goal is more power and features then with your budget I'd probably look at maximizing bang for the buck with a new Onkyo TX-NR809 or a factory re-certified TX-NR808. Those give you all the features that you're likely to want including a good flavor of Audyssey room correction while fitting neatly in your budget.

 

[3db]

So i currently have a yamaha RX-V663 which is a 7.2 (4x ns-333 1x ns-c444 2x ns-555). Love it and never had a problem with it but i want to upgrade it as i want to option be able to expand my system. The 663 has set inputs for each input (input 1 has hdmi1 component 1 and rca 1 connected to it) whereas the new ones i see you can choose which hdmi and which component and everything. Im not really sure how nice i need to go or what some of the options are so i just looked at yamaha (as i never had a problem with either of the yamahas i have had), denon, and harman kardon. with harman kardon i noticed that they dont have any 7.2 receivers... am i missing something? i did look briefly at the AVR 2650 but dont really know much about it... for denon i was looking at the AVR 2312CI for yamaha i looked at the RX-A810... not sure if there are other brands i should look at that have similar features or which of these have pros and cons or which of these brands have pros or cons... any help would be wonderful!

Thanks

I'm You are running out of inputs? Is that it? If so, what is your budget?