Upgrading power cables...Snake oil or not!

[Grey Ghost]

Guys,
Is it a noticable difference in upgrading the stock power cords with amps, Pre-amps and DVD players. I was thinking about upgrading all of my power cords what are your feeling on this issue? Thanks again for all of your help!

Grey Ghost

 

[Vancouver]

Grey,
Don't waste your money. What do you hope to achieve by doing that? Are you noticing some problems? If I were you I would spend the money on a good surge protector. If you really want to buy some piece of mind (maybe nothing else) get a power conditioner.

 

[Grey Ghost]

Vancouver,
Thanks for the reply! No problems just heard some people say it was a very noticable improvement when power cables were upgraded. I have a power conditioner but want to change it from the Monster 2500 I have now to a better brand.....

Grey Ghost

 

[WmAx]

Vancouver,
Thanks for the reply! No problems just heard some people say it was a very noticable improvement when power cables were upgraded. I have a power conditioner but want to change it from the Monster 2500 I have now to a better brand.....

Grey Ghost

The Monster 2500 is a pretty expensive product from my memory($200-$300?). If you are insistant on spending more money, go for a product that really does something, such as a 2200VA UPS. For example, the APC model no. SU2200RM3U-R can provide up to 1600 Watts of uninterruptable consistant power. Get a refurbished one for a little over $500USD.

http://www.lacc.com/product.asp?pf_id=SU2200RM3U-R

-Chris

 

[sjdgpt]

Most "experts" suggest that we don't use UPS systems as the noise generated by the unit may be greater than other sources of noise. There are several posts that confirm that UPS can be a source of problems.

The idea of "highend" power cords is better surface contact for the electrical connections, decreased EMI noise isolation etc.

The bottom line is that an inexpensive line conditioner will solve those problems at a lower cost.

 

[WmAx]

If you will take the time to notice, the unit that I recommended is a commercial grade UPS with high quality filtering, producing a high quality waveform. The UPS provides immunity from brown outs and black outs(short periods), as well as providing high quality surge protection.

Please reference these *experts* and their measurements of specific UPS devices demonstrating such harmful noise from high-quality UPS systems such as the one I referred.

-Chris

Most "experts" suggest that we don't use UPS systems as the noise generated by the unit may be greater than other sources of noise. There are several posts that confirm that UPS can be a source of problems.

The idea of "highend" power cords is better surface contact for the electrical connections, decreased EMI noise isolation etc.

The bottom line is that an inexpensive line conditioner will solve those problems at a lower cost.

 

[mtrycrafts]

No problems just heard some people say it was a very noticable improvement when power cables were upgraded.
Grey Ghost

Well, you are at the right place to get informed answers. Easy to pass on urban legends and audio is full of it. Audio is not immune from such claims of voodoo, mythology, bs, etc
So, be careful and always question; be skeptical, a lost trait in humans (most of them anyhow )

 

[Nick250]

Guys,
Is it a noticable difference in upgrading the stock power cords with amps, Pre-amps and DVD players. I was thinking about upgrading all of my power cords what are your feeling on this issue? Thanks again for all of your help!

Grey Ghost

Oh please. Did the studio where the CD or DVD was mixed and recorded use fancy power cords? No. Now, the power in your house gets to your receptacle using cheapo $.50 a foot romex from your junction box. Do you really think having 3 feet of expensive power cord from the receptacle to your receiver or CD player will change anything? Of course not. I know you asked this question innocently, but expensive power cords are one of those myths that stagger the imagination.

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

Maybe he just needs a longer power cord?


I'd personally just mosey on down to the local Home De(s)pot and buy some bulk cableing, and whatever connectors you need (They even has 50-amp stuff!).

 

[howie85]

Why couldn't one get that upc unit and plug a line conditioner into it. Best of both worlds?? Regulated power supply with filtering? I was thinking about this since I already have a line conditioner adding avs for that price is pretty cheap compared to most products with no battery back up. Any thoughts?

 

[Leprkon]

Guys,
Is it a noticable difference in upgrading the stock power cords with amps, Pre-amps and DVD players. I was thinking about upgrading all of my power cords what are your feeling on this issue? Thanks again for all of your help!

Grey Ghost

if you get the ones made out of silver, you can also use them to strangle any werewolves who invade the house while you were watching "Lord of the Rings" !!!!!!

 

[WmAx]

Why couldn't one get that upc unit and plug a line conditioner into it. Best of both worlds?? Regulated power supply with filtering? I was thinking about this since I already have a line conditioner adding avs for that price is pretty cheap compared to most products with no battery back up. Any thoughts?

So, you need filtering? Use a commercial grade unit that features such. Follow the link I provided earlier for a refurbished commercial-grade rack unit with new battery that can provide 1,600 watss power output.

-Chris

 

[miklorsmith]

PS audio says shielded power cables can minimize EMF intrusion to the rest of your cables. They also claim power cables are the most important in the chain, followed by speaker cables, then interconnects. I've never heard anybody accusing PS Audio of snakeoilery.

Of course, skeptics will tell you nothing you do to your system but the speakers and where they sit will affect the sound. Be skeptical of them. Every author I've come across believes power cables affect the sound of a highly resolving system.

Dan Wright, a respected modifier (and now preamp producer) has recently performed a comparison test of power cables to a CD player:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/cables/messages/48563.html

However, power cables were recently shown to be irrelevant in a double-blind shootout. Hmmm. . .I've looked for the link to that one but I can't find it. I'm sure one of our resident skeptics can help me out.

Anyway, it's not so simple as writing it off. There are as many people who believe the merits as those who choose to write it off based on their own preconceptions. FYI - in addition to Mr. Wright's observations, the Audience cords won at least two on-line "power cable of the year" awards.

So, make up your own mind.

 

[mtrycrafts]

[=miklorsmith]PS audio says shielded power cables can minimize EMF intrusion to the rest of your cables. They also claim power cables are the most important in the chain, followed by speaker cables, then interconnects. I've never heard anybody accusing PS Audio of snakeoilery.

Perhaps if you lay the other cables right next to the power cable. Easy fix to separate them. Why would they be immune from passing out bum info?


Of course, skeptics will tell you nothing you do to your system but the speakers and where they sit will affect the sound. Be skeptical of them. Every author I've come across believes power cables affect the sound of a highly resolving system.

Of course skeptics don't tell you this, just another fabrication by some.
Every psychic I have seen will tell you that they are for real. So what? Every one of those authors can be wrong. No magic to that.
What is needed for every author is to demonstrate their beliefs under bias controlled conditions, right? Then it would not be just a belief.
Be skeptical of believers not based in evidence.

Dan Wright, a respected modifier (and now preamp producer) has recently performed a comparison test of power cables to a CD player:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/cables/messages/48563.html

Respected by whom? His customers?
I see he stated he didn't conduct a DBT and I didn't see any measurement data at the speaker terminal to show differences. So, in the end, his review is biased, not much value.

However, power cables were recently shown to be irrelevant in a double-blind shootout. Hmmm. . .I've looked for the link to that one but I can't find it. I'm sure one of our resident skeptics can help me out.

Well, yes, that was shown by a golden ear audio club in CA? While the test has problems, it is more than Dan Wright has done, no?
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html

Anyway, it's not so simple as writing it off. There are as many people who believe the merits as those who choose to write it off based on their own preconceptions. FYI - in addition to Mr. Wright's observations, the Audience cords won at least two on-line "power cable of the year" awards.

So, make up your own mind.

Remember the psychics and their followers. They too believe.

 

[miklorsmith]

Actually, Mr. Wright is respected by knowledgable, nonbiased reviewers. Here's a review by Robert H. Levi stating that Dan's mods to the Sony 999 represent the absolute state of the art in digital playback:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue14/modwright999ES.htm

and here's one from Richard Kern on his mods to the Sony 777.

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue6/stock.htm

In the 6moons coverage of the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, Srajan Ebaaen called Mr. Wright "one of the finest modifiers in the country".

I'm a customer and I'm very happy with his work. The other customers I've read about are happy too. There's a whole new world out there for those willing to look.

 

[mtrycrafts]

[=miklorsmith]Actually, Mr. Wright is respected by knowledgable, nonbiased reviewers. Here's a review by Robert H. Levi stating that Dan's mods to the Sony 999 represent the absolute state of the art in digital playback:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue14/modwright999ES.htm

and here's one from Richard Kern on his mods to the Sony 777.

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue6/stock.htm


I was hoping that he was respected by the real audio community, the 'respected' members of AES, not the reviewer commonity for rags.
Non-biased reviewers? You mean they listen to components under DBT listening conditions? If not, they are BIASED, period. No, they cannot turn it off.

I received what I knew I would be getting as evidence.

In the 6moons coverage of the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, Srajan Ebaaen called Mr. Wright "one of the finest modifiers in the country".

And? Does that mean anything other than a courtesy call of respect?

I'm a customer and I'm very happy with his work.

Yes, happy customers would have more respect and are also biased.

The other customers I've read about are happy too.

You mean he doesn't have any unhappy customers? Or that is just not published?


There's a whole new world out there for those willing to look.

Always been a whole new world for them. Nothing new, human nature.

 

[sjdgpt]

PS audio says shielded power cables can minimize EMF intrusion to the rest of your cables. They also claim power cables are the most important in the chain, followed by speaker cables, then interconnects. I've never heard anybody accusing PS Audio of snakeoilery.

Actually I have never heard PS Audio being accused of selling snake oil, but then again, have you check the prices on their equipment?


A shielded power cable may be helpful in reducing EMI noise, but what about the 2 miles of unshielded power wiring running through your house?

My thoughts on the speciality power cables is pretty simple, just a waste of money.... a bit like spending a few thousand dollars on hurricane straps to hold down the roof of your house, but then opening every window to let the wind enter the house... bye, bye roof.

 

[miklorsmith]

PS Audio claims the EMI interference is rampant from your audio equipment, thus the last 6 feet is the most important.

Regarding my citations - I'm referring to people that listen to the equipment. If you wait around for DBT comparisons of equipment you're interested in, you might just as well hang it up. The fact that I don't know of anybody who has DBT'd Mr. Wright's work is not an implication of any kind. How much available equipment has DBT information available? Does that mean all equipment that hasn't been tested per DBT specifications is invalid?

The data doesn't exist. It never will. Many experienced listeners have written the whole DBT thing off. No equipment periodicals use it. It is a black hole for anyone trying to improve their auditory lot in life. I realize that electronics/wires are different from speakers/acoustics, but they're all wired together.

 

[mtrycrafts]

[=miklorsmith]PS Audio claims the EMI interference is rampant from your audio equipment, thus the last 6 feet is the most important.

Then they should have data for this too, no?

Regarding my citations - I'm referring to people that listen to the equipment.

Well, if that is what you call it, that is what they do. But, they are very biased, so any report from them is most biased, really useless.


If you wait around for DBT comparisons of equipment you're interested in, you might just as well hang it up.

Why didn't the reviewer do it under DBT listening conditions?


Does that mean all equipment that hasn't been tested per DBT specifications is invalid?

Depends what the test is passing on. If it has evaluations about sound, then yes, it has zero meaning, worthless as it is biased and unreliable. Why would anyone latch on to or read an unreliable review? Waste of time.
Now, if it discossued features, flexibility or lack there of, how it looked, or technical measurements, then that is peachie

The data doesn't exist. It never will.

Why not?


Many experienced listeners have written the whole DBT thing off.

That is unfortunate. It is out of ignorance, you know, that they are doing it. Or, they don't want to embarrass themselves for not being able to hear what they imagined they do hear.



No equipment periodicals use it.

The Audio Critic does. Others don't make wild sonic claims, or if they do, those reviews about sound is useless too.


It is a black hole for anyone trying to improve their auditory lot in life. I realize that electronics/wires are different from speakers/acoustics, but they're all wired together.


Yes, and? No, it is not a black hole for anyone, just for some?

 

[Nick250]

PS Audio claims the EMI interference is rampant from your audio equipment, thus the last 6 feet is the most important.

Regarding my citations - I'm referring to people that listen to the equipment. If you wait around for DBT comparisons of equipment you're interested in, you might just as well hang it up. The fact that I don't know of anybody who has DBT'd Mr. Wright's work is not an implication of any kind. How much available equipment has DBT information available? Does that mean all equipment that hasn't been tested per DBT specifications is invalid?

The data doesn't exist. It never will. Many experienced listeners have written the whole DBT thing off. No equipment periodicals use it. It is a black hole for anyone trying to improve their auditory lot in life. I realize that electronics/wires are different from speakers/acoustics, but they're all wired together.

I believe it was PT Barnum who said that no one ever lost money over estimating the gullibility of the American public. Also there is the old saying, "a fool and his money are soon parted." As I stated in an earlier post on this topic, the professional recording studios do not use these super power cords so I guess we all are already screwed since the cds and dvds we buy have been already been contaminated.