UPGRADES SUGGESTED.

tenerifepaul

tenerifepaul

Audioholic Intern
I am looking to improve my current set up, illustrated in the photo attached.
I have Onkyo TX -NR609 amp. B&W HTM 7 central speaker. B&W ASW700 sub, Klipsch R-100SW, couple of B&W 703, couple of B&W FPM 4 at the back behind the sofa. The ASW 700 is awaiting repair , hence the Klipsch, and one of the 703's is awaiting a new tweeter......so no hurry. I have had the B&W 's from new, about twenty years, the ONKYO is about six years old
To improve the set up a local audio company has suggested replacing the Onkyo with an Atmos Amp , adding a couple of height speakers in the ceiling above the seating area, moving the central speaker up (will have to be replaced as its too big for the recess at the top) adding some acoustic material to all recesses holding speakers, and adding another rug.....as the room is very hard.
Aside from the addition of the acoustic material and the rug, I want to make no aesthetic changes or move the 703's.
I have an estimate from them to add B&W central and height signature speakers and an integra amp. With installation $6000+. Needless to say I won't be going for that option, however good it may be. We only watch TV on this set up, mainly through apple tv and digital satellite.
I guess my questions are.
  1. Do I need to move that central speaker higher
  2. Will the height speakers make a worthwhile difference
  3. Is there any need to pay big money for the b&w and integra stuff for this type of use/set up
Any suggestions/advice would be appreciated.
 

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ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
Considering it is the situation you are living in, forgive...
I am hard-opposed to putting speakers in cubbies. If you want to improve the sound you experience, get that stuff out of those nooks!!!
New electronics will only take you so far... most will not be an improvement in SQ. The main reason to upgrade the electronics would be to improve your options in terms of newer technologies, upmixers, room correction, etc. I suspect that in a proper DBT, you would not be able to identify the difference between your receiver and just about any 2-3 others.

How big is your space? Those subs are small and that could be an area for improvement.

The center speaker is probably better off raised closer to the bottom of the screen. Putting it above the screen will be a mistake, as it will significantly move it from the plane your other speakers are on. Tilting it toward your shoulders will help improve the sound you get from the center channel.

Height speakers would be better if you went for a .4 Atmos installation using the Top Front and Top Back locations, this gives the most realistic effect. .2 could still be fun, but if you are going to upgrade to Atmos, go for the .4.

Speakers are the most important part when it comes to SQ. But the point of diminishing returns comes quickly. Only you can determine for yourself where that value lies. IMO, you can put together a great HT rig (speakers only for between maybe $4-8K. That can be up to a 7.x.4 system, and could include 2 high quality Subs.

But really... for the love of SQ, get those speakers out of the cubbies! All of them! ;)
 
tenerifepaul

tenerifepaul

Audioholic Intern
Ryanosaur. I am well aware of the issue with the cubbies as you call them.... hence the reason I specifically said 'I want to make no aesthetic changes or move the 703's'. Whilst closing the cubbies, and mounting a bunch of new speakers in exactly the right locations would undoubtedly be the perfect 'sound' solution, it's simply NOT going to happen. I am looking for the best solutions without doing that. What I dont want to do is spend money and get minimal impact ...........if I can't improve things without losing the 'cubbies' then I will live with what is already very satisfactory sound............but I would love to improve it if I can.
 
M

Mark E. Long

Audioholic
At the very least put the towers on some kind of risers and get them at least past the front plane of the front wall that's creating lots of problems right there . The small subs are not a plus in the setup especially on a shelf . But id get those towers up and out to the edge of the wall for sure ,
 
tenerifepaul

tenerifepaul

Audioholic Intern
Mark can you clarify what you mean. I know what a riser is but 'the front plane of the front wall' ? The towers are 13 inches deep so I normally pull them out a few inches and angle them towards us...........but 'up and out to the edge of the wall'.......if I understand what you mean it would require sitting them on some sort of track or hinge......I'm not sure what would support them , they are very heavy!
As far as the small subs go, I wasn't aware they were small? They are 13'' x 13''?
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic General
Mark can you clarify what you mean. I know what a riser is but 'the front plane of the front wall' ? The towers are 13 inches deep so I normally pull them out a few inches and angle them towards us...........but 'up and out to the edge of the wall'.......if I understand what you mean it would require sitting them on some sort of track or hinge......I'm not sure what would support them , they are very heavy!
As far as the small subs go, I wasn't aware they were small? They are 13'' x 13''?
Those are certainly small subs, they look like 10" drivers? They are most certainly not reproducing all the movie sound effects with any authority.

In regards to the bolded statement in your quote, do you remove them from that cubby when you're listening?

I think Mark is basically saying what Ryanosaur did. By having them in a cubby like that you're likely causing all kinds of issues from diffraction off the cubby edges, to boomy bass from being enclosed like that, and lord knows what else. The same thing applies to your subs, being enclosed like that, you are going to enhance certain notes over others, most likely making one or two particular frequencies much louder than others.
 
tenerifepaul

tenerifepaul

Audioholic Intern
I do not remove them , I simply slide out the front , as in the photo attached.
Yep they are ten inch drivers.........what would I need to get the 'movie sound effects with authority'? Just an an actual example of what would be good would help? BTW the room is 5.3m x 6.3m
 

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mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Spartan
I am hard-opposed to putting speakers in cubbies. If you want to improve the sound you experience, get that stuff out of those nooks!!!
I couldn't agree more. If you properly place those Floorstanders. It will be like getting a whole new system. JMO

And the best Upgrade that will give the most impact IMO would be a Proper Subwoofer. SVS or Power Sound Audio

I would also use these for your Center Channel to adjust to the listening position.

Love the Disco Ball!!!
 
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Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic Chief
I am looking to improve my current set up, illustrated in the photo attached.
I have Onkyo TX -NR609 amp. B&W HTM 7 central speaker. B&W ASW700 sub, Klipsch R-100SW, couple of B&W 703, couple of B&W FPM 4 at the back behind the sofa. The ASW 700 is awaiting repair , hence the Klipsch, and one of the 703's is awaiting a new tweeter......so no hurry. I have had the B&W 's from new, about twenty years, the ONKYO is about six years old
To improve the set up a local audio company has suggested replacing the Onkyo with an Atmos Amp , adding a couple of height speakers in the ceiling above the seating area, moving the central speaker up (will have to be replaced as its too big for the recess at the top) adding some acoustic material to all recesses holding speakers, and adding another rug.....as the room is very hard.
Aside from the addition of the acoustic material and the rug, I want to make no aesthetic changes or move the 703's.
I have an estimate from them to add B&W central and height signature speakers and an integra amp. With installation $6000+. Needless to say I won't be going for that option, however good it may be. We only watch TV on this set up, mainly through apple tv and digital satellite.
I guess my questions are.
  1. Do I need to move that central speaker higher
  2. Will the height speakers make a worthwhile difference
  3. Is there any need to pay big money for the b&w and integra stuff for this type of use/set up
Any suggestions/advice would be appreciated.
Definitely get the new AVR and move the speakers to the floor, especially the subwoofers. I wouldn't move the center channel.
 
M

Mark E. Long

Audioholic
I do not remove them , I simply slide out the front , as in the photo attached.
Yep they are ten inch drivers.........what would I need to get the 'movie sound effects with authority'? Just an an actual example of what would be good would help? BTW the room is 5.3m x 6.3m
Thats much better at least to me they need to be past the wall for good imaging but i would think being inside a cube so to speak would create some sort of problems maybe not but out ;like you have now should defiantly improve a lot . Iam sorry if the first pictures i looked at they looked like they were down inside the cubes . As far as subs At least 12 inch for sure . I use two 12's in my set up and honestly need bigger my room is 28 by 17 wide a lot of room to pressurize and sometimes they lack in impact of some music but are adequate on movie sound tracks . They are my weakest link in the system .
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
Definitely get the new AVR and move the speakers to the floor, especially the subwoofers. I wouldn't move the center channel.
A new AVR won't improve the SQ. The real improvement is with new bigger subs and higher placement of the center speaker.
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic Chief
A new AVR won't improve the SQ. The real improvement is with new bigger subs and higher placement of the center speaker.
The new AVR isn't for sound quality but for new technology like Atmos, DTS-X and upmixers.
 
tenerifepaul

tenerifepaul

Audioholic Intern
I not necessarily looking for new features, but I want to improve the overall sound. Since I am not moving any of the front speakers to the floor , would the addition of some acoustic material in the cubbies improve the sound?
I can raise the central speaker a few inches using the risers suggested and get a bigger sub. I have no problem adding an an ATMOS amp and cutting holes in the ceiling for some height speakers..............my guess is that combination is the best I can do with what I have?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
Improve in what way? You have poor acoustical setup with your aesthetic, so just what do you have in mind?
 
tenerifepaul

tenerifepaul

Audioholic Intern
Lovinthehd. I accept that , but within the constraints of the aesthetic I am looking for a better experience. I guess in the simplest of terms it would be a more immersive experience . I am not a 'music buff ' plain and simple .....it's not about reproducing an ideal concert-like sound.........I just want a more cinematic experience when watching movies etc.........
 

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