Upgrade Time! But... quirky limitations in a large vaulted room

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Trebdp83

Audioholic General
Hey, he bought a stuffed peccary. I don't think he is concerned with practicality or modernity.:p If it all doesn’t sound good, at least it will look good.:) He’ll post the results, I’m sure, and somebody will say I told you so, I’m sure.:confused:
 
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AaronDC

Enthusiast
I hope they are better than the newer Klipsch Forte IIIs that I heard. Those Forte IIIs were pretty bad. As for that amp, 2 watts is enough to drive headphones but not actual loudspeakers. The good news is that you don't need an expensive DAC with that amp since any benefits of a high-performance DAC is blown away by the very high distortion levels you will have with an amp like that. Get any DAC you want, it won't matter until you get a serious amplifier. It might not take as long as you think for you to decide to get a real amp; if the poor headroom of that amp doesn't bother you, the maintenance schedule of owning a tube amplifier eventually will. Not trying to sound harsh on your choices, but you bought a bunch of gear of vintage design, and with that comes all the problems of vintage design which were solved many decades ago by better engineering.
Thanks for the feedback!

-- I'm not clear, are you saying that the Zen Triode is not a serious amp and is very distorted?
-- I had a conversation with Steve Deckert about the 2.3 watt question. Not good for parties, but great for everyday listening. Given my $1K budget, the amp seems like a good choice. Given the comments I've seen in forums about Decware amps, and given the fact that it's a 5 month wait at this point to get it, it seems that a lot of people feel the same way that I do. Or have people been watching too many Steve Guttenberg videos?
-- If you can recommend the closest approximation to a serious amp for $1K, new or used, I would appreciate it. Although, I could bump it up $500 if I can get to something minimally serious.
-- Since my last post I discovered that one of the Klipsches was out of phase, fixed it and... wow!! It is so important to check all equipment settings, interconnects, etc; I'm going to be more careful now...
-- FWIW I have been extremely pleased with the Cornwalls, which, I placed in the corners of the room at ear-level. Proper speaker placement has been a complete revelation for me. Aside from that, the Missions were completely inadequate for the space. The Cornwalls sound fantastic to my noob ears on the Yamaha Natural Sound, which I'm told is a poor pairing for the speaker. I also hooked them up to the TubeCube 7 with a loaner Audio Note DAC-Zero and the difference is not obvious to me, further evaluation is necessary :).
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Thanks for the feedback!

-- I'm not clear, are you saying that the Zen Triode is not a serious amp and is very distorted?
-- I had a conversation with Steve Deckert about the 2.3 watt question. Not good for parties, but great for everyday listening. Given my $1K budget, the amp seems like a good choice. Given the comments I've seen in forums about Decware amps, and given the fact that it's a 5 month wait at this point to get it, it seems that a lot of people feel the same way that I do. Or have people been watching too many Steve Guttenberg videos?
-- If you can recommend the closest approximation to a serious amp for $1K, new or used, I would appreciate it. Although, I could bump it up $500 if I can get to something minimally serious.
-- FWIW I have been extremely pleased with the Cornwalls, which, I placed in the corners of the room at ear-level. Proper speaker placement has been a complete revelation for me. Aside from that, the Missions were completely inadequate for the space. The Cornwalls sound fantastic to my noob ears on the Yamaha Natural Sound, which I'm told is a poor pairing for the speaker. I also hooked them up to the TubeCube 7 with a loaner Audio Note DAC-Zero and the difference is not obvious to me, further evaluation is necessary :).
To address your points in order:

-Yes, the Zen Triode is not a serious amp, and relative to modern solid state designs will have lots of distortion, even putting aside its incredibly low headroom. The nature of this distortion is actually why many people like them, but it isn't accurate sound reproduction.

-Too many Steve Guttenberg videos. To say that amp is not good for parties is an understatement. Here is the deal with amps like that: they will clip the signal peaks all the time. The thing is, the nature of the distortion that occurs when it clips the signal is pleasing to some people. It compresses the sound and adds low-order harmonic distortion. All of that can make the content sound more mellow than it really is. However, a 2-watt amp is absurdly low power, even for people who are after that mellowing type of distortion. If you are after accurate sound reproduction, a single-ended 2-watt amp may be one of the worst amplifiers you could have picked. Also, many of the people who rave about that type of device also think that power cables and equipment racks also have a major impact on the sound, so they are not a reliable bunch.

-Here is a good alternative to the 2-watt amp. It is just 110-watts of clean A/B amplification along with all the functions of a receiver. Comparing it to the 2-watt amp is like comparing a new BMW M-class car to a Ford Model T. It will be way better than your temporary DAC as well; The Outlaw receiver is using a modern Burr-Brown DAC while that Audio Note thing is using an ancient Philips chip. The THD and noise on that thing will be atrocious by comparison.

-If you like the Cornwalls, that is great. As for the Yamaha sound versus the Tubecube sound, at low levels, they may sound much alike. The difference comes in when the TubeCube runs out of headroom. It will begin to distort, and that occurs at a far lower level than the Yamaha.

By the way, I would consider it a very serious design flaw for a loudspeaker if it paired poorly with a common amp topology like a normal A/B design which is the most common kind of amp there is. Luckily I don't believe the Klipsch speakers are so incompetent where the amp type makes a serious difference. It's possible that Klipsch heritage aficionados like the tube amp sound because the distortion 'warmth' takes the edge off of what are otherwise harsh speakers. But having to use an obsolete amp design to compensate for a speaker's sound character is pretty damning for the speaker. Most speakers don't need a distortion effects processor in the signal chain in order to sound good.
 
pcosmic

pcosmic

Full Audioholic
Hi.

I came here just over 4 years ago looking for advice for my first upgrade and was able to act on it and have been happy enough since then. Now, after some family Xmas generosity, I have a little budget for a splurge and am looking for the best upgrade path for an amount not to exceed $2,150. Despite another round of obsessive research, my head is spinning and I haven't come to a conclusion and so I am back to ask for you input! So, here's where things stand as of today:

My first post here after obsessively researching and not really finding an answer. I'd like to improve sound quality in the great room of my house (a small converted church).

Here's some data:
-- Budget for improvements: $2,150.
-- Four Mission M71s LF: 130mm (5.1 in) bonded woven glass composite cone with 25mm (1 in) voice coil HF: 25mm (1 in) sheer Micro-Fibre soft dome with FF cooling. In other words, really little. They're bi-wired to the amp with Blue Jeans Canare 4S1.
-- The Missions are located at opposite ends of 40'L x 19'w great room with 9'-15'H vaulted ceiling hung at about 8' off the ground in the corner with wall mount brackets. I know; this is a problem too. Cubic Feet in Room: 7,980 with a single door-sized opening to another area measuring about 5,000 cu ft. See architectural drawings attached. The Missions are the red boxes on the drawings.
-- Yamaha Natural Sound AV Receiver HTR-3067
-- Hsu Research VTF-2 MK4 connected via a Rocketfish RF-WSW312 wireless subwoofer kit with some a cheapie RCA connector only to SUB in/left (see photo). I'm betting it's not optimized.
-- Sonos Connect running Spotify (320Kbps) as well as streaming radio. I could consider switching to Tidal, but I'd have to convince my wife and daughter to switch our family plan and I do like the music discovery features on Spotify. Also, I tried Tidal with my headphone setup below and couldn't detect a difference.
-- Home furnishings tend toward rugs, midcentury wood, not a lot of soft stuff. We are adding a second couch though!
-- Great room has good height, lots of interfering trusses, and other complicated architectural elements, windows, etc, which I'm gathering might be helpful.
-- My preferred signature is warmer/laid back, I guess. My headphone setup is this: Senn 650HDs on a JDS 02 amp/DAC sourced from a MacBook running Spotify.
-- I play music only and I listen to all kinds.

Important spouse, human and animal factors:
-- I'm married to a person who has no interest in fine audio who doesn't want tower speakers where we most likely ought to put some. Although she is definitely being a sport about the budget!
-- We have three kids who are thankfully now out of the ankle-biting stage, but occasionally tear around the house shooting each other with Nerf bullets. We have a young dog as well who gets balls thrown to her inside sometimes. So, there are projectiles for sure.
-- Most of my more focused listening is in the "living room" portion of the great room, but we play music in the great room while cooking in the kitchen at the other end and during dinner etc.

Some thoughts:
Obviously, I'd love to learn about any low-hanging fruit. Maybe a Maestro electrical outlet for $85 or a Schitt Modi 3 for $99, maybe a DIY REW session for $0, etc. I clearly need to replace the missions at the living room end or simply add some new speakers, maybe?

Given the spousal concern about speaker obtrusiveness, I thought maybe a pair of Magnepan LRSs powered by a Rogue Audio Sphinx might be a good compromise. Given the placement requirements of the Magnepans and what I thought was the best locations for them (or any other floor speakers for that matter) she balked. So, back to the drawing board. We have a credenza behind our couch which I thought might be okay for some near-field appreciation of a pair of KEF LS50s sitting on that (spouse said yes to this location). But given the fact that it's the middle of the room and it'd be best to have something that can provide sound in all directions. I thought that maybe some omni-directional speakers might be the way to go and I learned about Ohm Walsh Omnis. But those speakers are happier up against a wall! But don't the Magnepans send sound out the front and rear? Hmmm... So... again, I'm slowly driving myself crazy with this.

Floor plan and pics are attached. You can see the missions hung on the wall in the kitchen and living room sections. One pic has me pointing at the credenza which seems to be a possible location for some kind of speakers.

So, what say you?? Let me know, I'd really appreciate it!

Aaron
Glen Echo, MD
Dudeeeeeeeeee, your choice of speaker placement FOR MUSIC is awful. This is like the layout for speakers in a coffee shop, for christs sakes!!!

Check attached image....can you put 2 lil bookshelf speakers on dedicated stands in the marked area against the wall? (it's tucked away a bit from acrobatic dog and nerf gun shootin kids perhaps). You could sit on the couch (marked area) and face the speakers. If you can set up a pair of bookshelf speakers about 7 or 8 ft apart in that area, that could work out.

If you can do that, you can get yourself a pair of small Technics SB-C700 bookshelf speakers and set them on stands. They are very easy on the eye and could you fit your room's decor. Even my speaker hating Mrs thinks these are mighty cute. But, above all, these are phenomenonal sounding highly resolving speakers with the spookiest holographic imaging you could get at prices like this...And they sound uuggee for their size. If you are a music afficionado, they may treat you really well.
https://hifiheaven.net/shop/Technics-SB-C700-Bookshelf-Speakers-Open-Box?search=technics sb-c700

IMG_6090.jpg
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Dudeeeeeeeeee, your choice of speaker placement FOR MUSIC is awful. This is like the layout for speakers in a coffee shop, for christs sakes!!!

Check attached image....can you put 2 lil bookshelf speakers on dedicated stands in the marked area against the wall? (it's tucked away a bit from acrobatic dog and nerf gun shootin kids perhaps). You could sit on the couch (marked area) and face the speakers. If you can set up a pair of bookshelf speakers about 7 or 8 ft apart in that area, that could work out.

If you can do that, you can get yourself a pair of small Technics SB-C700 bookshelf speakers and set them on stands. They are very easy on the eye and could you fit your room's decor. Even my speaker hating Mrs thinks these are mighty cute. But, above all, these are phenomenonal sounding highly resolving speakers with the spookiest holographic imaging you could get at prices like this...And they sound uuggee for their size. If you are a music afficionado, they may treat you really well.
https://hifiheaven.net/shop/Technics-SB-C700-Bookshelf-Speakers-Open-Box?search=technics sb-c700

View attachment 43549
His circumstances have changed since this point.
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
To address your points in order:

-Yes, the Zen Triode is not a serious amp, and relative to modern solid state designs will have lots of distortion, even putting aside its incredibly low headroom. The nature of this distortion is actually why many people like them, but it isn't accurate sound reproduction.

-Too many Steve Guttenberg videos. To say that amp is not good for parties is an understatement. Here is the deal with amps like that: they will clip the signal peaks all the time. The thing is, the nature of the distortion that occurs when it clips the signal is pleasing to some people. It compresses the sound and adds low-order harmonic distortion. All of that can make the content sound more mellow than it really is. However, a 2-watt amp is absurdly low power, even for people who are after that mellowing type of distortion. If you are after accurate sound reproduction, a single-ended 2-watt amp may be one of the worst amplifiers you could have picked. Also, many of the people who rave about that type of device also think that power cables and equipment racks also have a major impact on the sound, so they are not a reliable bunch.

-Here is a good alternative to the 2-watt amp. It is just 110-watts of clean A/B amplification along with all the functions of a receiver. Comparing it to the 2-watt amp is like comparing a new BMW M-class car to a Ford Model T. It will be way better than your temporary DAC as well; The Outlaw receiver is using a modern Burr-Brown DAC while that Audio Note thing is using an ancient Philips chip. The THD and noise on that thing will be atrocious by comparison.

-If you like the Cornwalls, that is great. As for the Yamaha sound versus the Tubecube sound, at low levels, they may sound much alike. The difference comes in when the TubeCube runs out of headroom. It will begin to distort, and that occurs at a far lower level than the Yamaha.

By the way, I would consider it a very serious design flaw for a loudspeaker if it paired poorly with a common amp topology like a normal A/B design which is the most common kind of amp there is. Luckily I don't believe the Klipsch speakers are so incompetent where the amp type makes a serious difference. It's possible that Klipsch heritage aficionados like the tube amp sound because the distortion 'warmth' takes the edge off of what are otherwise harsh speakers. But having to use an obsolete amp design to compensate for a speaker's sound character is pretty damning for the speaker. Most speakers don't need a distortion effects processor in the signal chain in order to sound good.
Now that I think about it, another advantage of the Outlaw Audio receivers is it has bass management for easy integration of a subwoofer. Those Cornwalls probably don't have great bass extension. I wouldn't be surprised i they tapped out at 50Hz. The Hsu will dig much deeper. So the Outlaw allows you to keep the Hsu in the game for real deep bass.
 
Truthslayer

Truthslayer

Full Audioholic
Now that I think about it, another advantage of the Outlaw Audio receivers is it has bass management for easy integration of a subwoofer. Those Cornwalls probably don't have great bass extension. I wouldn't be surprised i they tapped out at 50Hz. The Hsu will dig much deeper. So the Outlaw allows you to keep the Hsu in the game for real deep bass.
The bass on the Cornwalls is almost non existent.
Kind of feel bad for the OP, someone has convinced him of a hole lotta nonsense. Not having much experience, he has fallen for it hook line and sinker.
Lets just hope after reading threw this thread, talking with a few friends, he is able to reverse most of his decisions. If not it wont be long before he realizes he could have had a better system for less money.
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
The bass on the Cornwalls is almost non existent.
Kind of feel bad for the OP, someone has convinced him of a hole lotta nonsense. Not having much experience, he has fallen for it hook line and sinker.
Lets just hope after reading threw this thread, talking with a few friends, he is able to reverse most of his decisions. If not it wont be long before he realizes he could have had a better system for less money.
The Cornwalls have a 15" woofer, I would hope it has some bass. Klipsch states it as having a +/-4dB window of 34Hz to 20kHz, so that should give it bass down to 50 or 60Hz at least. That seems plausible given the design. Then again, Erin measured a -10dB point of 47Hz on the Heresys, and that had a spec'd window +/-4dB at 48Hz to 20kHz. Either way, I am sure it's worth adding the Hsu sub if it can be integrated well.
 
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AaronDC

Enthusiast
Thanks for the analysis, ShadyJ, and everyone else!

Yes, circumstances have evolved...

- Pic attached of Spouse-approved placement of new Cornwalls.

- I'm not 100% sure, but as far as the distortion question vs accuracy, I think I may have a preference for the warmth of tube distortion.

- I like your automotive comparison. I appreciate both of those cars for different reasons. In fact I regularly drive a Citroen 2CV very much unchanged from the original 1939 design and it is wonderful, on the other hand I absolutely love my plug in electric Chevy Bolt for entirely different reasons. Maybe for me it would be the same in the audio world. I really wish there were a way for me to try a bunch of combos of amps and speaker combos in my house, one after another with the assistance of a knowledgeable person. I'm guessing if my budget were more on the order of $10K or more, I'd imagine that one of the local purveyors of fine audio would do that for me. Unfortunately I'm rather constrained with my much more modest budget, even if it has been enhanced by an additional $1k, $3K isn't much in this world.

- I do like the Cornwalls. I come by them in an effort to keep speakers from being located "in the middle of the room" (on either side of the wood stove, actually, but anyhoo...). It seems that a lot of the Klipsch Heritage speakers want to be in corners, so despite the size, it works for us. Who'da guessed that Cornwalls would have good WAF. I do find that they are kind of sibilant in the highs and I'm hoping that a tube will tone that down as you say.

- I found Truthslayer's comment to be particularly interesting. My decisions are reversible, although it may cause spousal pain. So, have at it. WWYD with $3,100 to spend upgrading the aforementioned system? Speakers have to be in the corners of the 8,000 cu ft great room. Source has to be Spotify 320 kbps streamed in via a Sonos Connect (the old Sonos device) - Tidal FLAC could be an option, but one step at a time...

- I tried playing the Cornwalls with the Hsu sub and it was a total mess. I do find the Cornwalls able to do adequate bass. It would be nice but not necessary to do a little more.
 

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pcosmic

pcosmic

Full Audioholic
OMG, Who's the brilliant forum warrior who gave him the bright idea to get a couple of cornwalls for this room?!?!?! Lol, Jebeesus, i give up.....
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Thanks for the analysis, ShadyJ, and everyone else!

Yes, circumstances have evolved...

- Pic attached of Spouse-approved placement of new Cornwalls.

- I'm not 100% sure, but as far as the distortion question vs accuracy, I think I may have a preference for the warmth of tube distortion.

- I like your automotive comparison. I appreciate both of those cars for different reasons. In fact I regularly drive a Citroen 2CV very much unchanged from the original 1939 design and it is wonderful, on the other hand I absolutely love my plug in electric Chevy Bolt for entirely different reasons. Maybe for me it would be the same in the audio world. I really wish there were a way for me to try a bunch of combos of amps and speaker combos in my house, one after another with the assistance of a knowledgeable person. I'm guessing if my budget were more on the order of $10K or more, I'd imagine that one of the local purveyors of fine audio would do that for me. Unfortunately I'm rather constrained with my much more modest budget, even if it has been enhanced by an additional $1k, $3K isn't much in this world.

- I do like the Cornwalls. I come by them in an effort to keep speakers from being located "in the middle of the room" (on either side of the wood stove, actually, but anyhoo...). It seems that a lot of the Klipsch Heritage speakers want to be in corners, so despite the size, it works for us. Who'da guessed that Cornwalls would have good WAF. I do find that they are kind of sibilant in the highs and I'm hoping that a tube will tone that down as you say.

- I found Truthslayer's comment to be particularly interesting. My decisions are reversible, although it may cause spousal pain. So, have at it. WWYD with $3,100 to spend upgrading the aforementioned system? Speakers have to be in the corners of the 8,000 cu ft great room. Source has to be Spotify 320 kbps streamed in via a Sonos Connect (the old Sonos device) - Tidal FLAC could be an option, but one step at a time...

- I tried playing the Cornwalls with the Hsu sub and it was a total mess. I do find the Cornwalls able to do adequate bass. It would be nice but not necessary to do a little more.
I can understand enjoying tube distortion, however, there is a difference between a real class A/B solid state amp and a low power tube amp: the solid state amp can be made to sound like a tube amp, but a tube amp could never sound like a serious solid state amplifier. You can always insert an effects processor in the signal chain to alter the sound character of a solid state amp, but nothing can make a tube amp sound like anything other than what it is.

As for the automotive comparison, I get why you would like a classic Citroen, however, for some of the equipment you are contemplating, the analogy doesn't quite hold. The 2-watt amp is like what if they were still manufacturing the Citroen just like that to this day and charging $50k for it, and even worse, the manufacturer claims that it performs better than a modern automobile. The charms of an original car like your Citroen is its context in automotive history, so it can be forgiven its shortcomings compared to modern automobiles. But you can understand how nuts it would be to sell a car like that new.

As for the sibilance of the Cornwalls, I don't think a tube amp will cure that. You will need an equalizer, preferably a parametric equalizer. You will need to experiment with taking down frequency bands from the 4 to 8kHz range which is where sibilance lay.

Taking a step back, I would say you made a wrong turn at Albuquerque, in a manner of speaking. You are trying to use the shortcomings of a problematic amplifier to solve the problems of a problematic speaker. If you are looking for a vintage sound, that is the way to go, and some people are looking for that sound. I don't want to criticize your tastes in sound character, and if you are looking for an old-school sound, you are on the right track. Just keep in mind that brings with it a lot of problems that are either not fixable or a hassle. You will have highly compressed sound that will have a lot of harmonic distortion and speakers that are shouty, sibilant, and lacking in bass extension. You can fix sibilance with EQ at least, kind of.

If you want a vintage looking speakers that will have a much more modern sound performance, look at some JBL 4312G speakers. I think those will have a much more linear response, so they don't need a goofy amplifier to help the sound. Another pair that are a bit outside your budget but also has vintage styling but an absolutely superb sound is the new JBL L100. I heard those at the same trade show as the new Klipsch Forte speaker, and the JBLs were so much better, very smooth whereas the Klipsch speakers were harsh. I heard the L100s next to them Revel PerformaBe F238Be speakers, and honest to god the JBLs could keep up (now that I think about it I should try to get some L100s in for review).
 
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AaronDC

Enthusiast
After reading your comments I went back and had another look at how I got to where I am.

My givens: corner placement, large room, restricted budget led me to used Cornwalls. The corner placement thing in particular is very unusual.

Next it was time to choose an amp. After a very convincing looking video by Steve Guttenberg sent me into the Klipsch Community forums where I felt like I had dialed in a really nice set up with the only disadvantage being a very long wait for the Decware amp.

Next up should be a DAC purchase, but now I am pausing to take this all in.

Here’s the video:

FWIW, the sensitivity of these Cornwalls is 98.5db
 
pcosmic

pcosmic

Full Audioholic
After reading your comments I went back and had another look at how I got to where I am.

My givens: corner placement, large room, restricted budget led me to used Cornwalls. The corner placement thing in particular is very unusual.

Next it was time to choose an amp. After a very convincing looking video by Steve Guttenberg sent me into the Klipsch Community forums where I felt like I had dialed in a really nice set up with the only disadvantage being a very long wait for the Decware amp.

Next up should be a DAC purchase, but now I am pausing to take this all in.

Here’s the video:

FWIW, the sensitivity of these Cornwalls is 98.5db
The sad thing is there are many speakers out there that are significantly cheaper than a Cornwall that sound significantly better (new or used). It takes a enormous amount of work to make that poorly engineered Klipsch screech box sound stomachable on a regular day and it will be close to impossible with the restrictions you have in your room. But, if you don't hear other speakers and good setups out there, you could be happy with what you got, i suppose (it would work in your favor).

Have you seen Guttenberg's chaotic listening environment? He is hard of hearing and also one of the most technologically challenged dudes out there in the world of audio. Don't trust any of his reviews too much. He plays for whichever manufacturer pays him the most (all day long).

If you insist on tube amps, the following are much much better tube amps (for the same price or lower, for instance) than the Decware flea watt shtbox he told you to get.
https://www.amazon.com/Willsenton-R8-Integrated-Amplifier-Headphone/dp/B08133TH98/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=willsenton+r8&qid=1610385077&sr=8-2

https://doge.audio/product/doge-10-padc/

ShadyJ made some very good points on his last post. You may wanna think about some of the points he made.
 
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AaronDC

Enthusiast
The sad thing is there are many speakers out there that are significantly cheaper than a Cornwall that sound significantly better (new or used). It takes a enormous amount of work to make that poorly engineered Klipsch screech box sound stomachable on a regular day and it will be close to impossible with the restrictions you have in your room. But, if you don't hear other speakers and good setups out there, you could be happy with what you got, i suppose (it would work in your favor).

Have you seen Guttenberg's chaotic listening environment? He is hard of hearing and also one of the most technologically challenged dudes out there in the world of audio. Don't trust any of his reviews too much. He plays for whichever manufacturer pays him the most (all day long).

If you insist on tube amps, the following are much much better tube amps (for the same price or lower, for instance) than the Decware flea watt shtbox he told you to get.
https://www.amazon.com/Willsenton-R8-Integrated-Amplifier-Headphone/dp/B08133TH98/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=willsenton+r8&qid=1610385077&sr=8-2

https://doge.audio/product/doge-10-padc/

ShadyJ made some very good points on his last post. You may wanna think about some of the points he made.
Responses Below:
-- If there are some speakers that are good in room corners, I would be interested in learning about them. If someone could suggest some, I would appreciate it.
-- If Guttenberg is getting paid by the manufacturers to review them, that would make his videos little more than infomercials. I can see online that you are not the only person who makes this claim. Well, if true, this is a bit of a rude awakening for me. In any case, I would very much like to know where I can find information on equipment that is done by people who are not being paid by the manufacturers. Something like Consumer Reports. I know that there are no objective sources of information for equipment other than scientific measurements, but at least I could dial in my own preferences by following a reviewer who consistently reflects my own preferred listening style. Any help pointing me in the right direction is greatly appreciated!
-- I don't insist on a tube amp. I simply thought I found an amazing amp for the Cornwalls.

Thanks!
 
Mark E. Long

Mark E. Long

Full Audioholic
Responses Below:
-- If there are some speakers that are good in room corners, I would be interested in learning about them. If someone could suggest some, I would appreciate it.
-- If Guttenberg is getting paid by the manufacturers to review them, that would make his videos little more than infomercials. I can see online that you are not the only person who makes this claim. Well, if true, this is a bit of a rude awakening for me. In any case, I would very much like to know where I can find information on equipment that is done by people who are not being paid by the manufacturers. Something like Consumer Reports. I know that there are no objective sources of information for equipment other than scientific measurements, but at least I could dial in my own preferences by following a reviewer who consistently reflects my own preferred listening style. Any help pointing me in the right direction is greatly appreciated!
-- I don't insist on a tube amp. I simply thought I found an amazing amp for the Cornwalls.

Thanks!
Have you looked into carver amps on some you can get what he call the tube sound or you could look into his stand alone tube amps all have good specs and usually massive power to back it up .
 
Truthslayer

Truthslayer

Full Audioholic
Responses Below:
-- If there are some speakers that are good in room corners, I would be interested in learning about them. If someone could suggest some, I would appreciate it.
-- If Guttenberg is getting paid by the manufacturers to review them, that would make his videos little more than infomercials. I can see online that you are not the only person who makes this claim. Well, if true, this is a bit of a rude awakening for me. In any case, I would very much like to know where I can find information on equipment that is done by people who are not being paid by the manufacturers. Something like Consumer Reports. I know that there are no objective sources of information for equipment other than scientific measurements, but at least I could dial in my own preferences by following a reviewer who consistently reflects my own preferred listening style. Any help pointing me in the right direction is greatly appreciated!
-- I don't insist on a tube amp. I simply thought I found an amazing amp for the Cornwalls.

Thanks!
Unfortunately, most of those reviewers online are being paid for their reviews, that's just how they make a living.
Checking on this forum and a few others is the best place to get user first hand experience. Also many of the speakers have been tested with results.
Let us know your speaker budget and you will get recommendations that should make you happy.
If you want clean accurate sound, go with a class a/b amp. As has been pointed out, the tube amplifier option you listed, is overpriced and wont be accurate. Tube amps fascinate some people for a short time period, and it doesn't usually last long.
You could look at an integrated amp, avr or go separates, prepro +amplifier. All of which will give a much cleaner sound, and be more utility bill friendly. I only know two people who run tube amps and both constantly complain about their electric bill.
Your on the right path, asking questions and research. Take your time and do it right the first time. Nothing worse than spending a lot of money, then realizing you could have done better and for less. Having to resell gear can be time consuming and costly.

Please remember no one is trying to knock you for some of the choices you have or were going to make. Rather only trying to help out a fellow audiophile.
 
A

AaronDC

Enthusiast
Thanks.

What other forums are good sources of information?

I now have a total budget of $3,100. If I keep the Hsu sub, my budget gets reduced by its market value. I spent $1,000 on what seem to be rather nice Cornwall I's. I don't have to keep them, but they're designed to go in the corners of the room and that is a WAF friendly location. I think I got a square deal for the Cornwalls, so I'd probably approximately get my money back. The original post has all the specs.

Thanks!
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
For what it is worth, I don't think the Cornwalls are absolutely terrible speakers. I liked them when I first heard them among a bunch of other Klipsch Heritage speakers back when I was young. However, I have heard many other better speakers since that day, and I understand that the Klipsch Heritage sound isn't a very refined sound. Like I said, I bet that EQing could take some of the edge off those speakers as well.

As I said before, if you want a vintage looking boxy speaker but with modern sound performance that will sound good with any amp, look at some of the JBL Synthesis speakers. As for an amp, I would be looking at the Outlaw RR2160 that I mentioned earlier. No need for separate DAC and amplification when that unit has very good implementations of both for a fair price.
 
pcosmic

pcosmic

Full Audioholic
@AaronDC , the following is an example of what a honest review looks like (with a lot of technical stuff shared.)

Gene Dellasella does some honest amp reviews.

Z Reviews does honest reviews (he buys the gear himself and sells it after he reviews it). But, he is not very technically knowledgeable.

Hans Beekhuyzen is fairly honest. But, he sincerely believes in snake oil products (facepalm).

Guttenberg, Andrew Robinson, Darko, zero fidelity, NBTS, etc are all pay to play. Don't trust these guys too much. Zero Fidelity is also a disgusting arrogant pig.

Either way, the only way to really know is listening to stuff in your room (determine whether you like it or not). Buy stuff from vendors with a hassle free return policy.
 

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