Upgrade speakers or AV receiver first?

[primalspy]

Hello everyone! I'm new here and I purchased a very entry-level 5.1 system based on Gene's suggestions from one of his recommended systems.
Here is the list of gear.
AV receiver: Sony STRDH590 5.2 145w RMS x5 channels
SUB: RSL Speedwoofer 10s (I have a 2nd one on pre-order so I will have stereo subs)
Center speaker: Sony SSCS8 MTM (has x2 4" drivers)
Twin Towers: Sony SSCS3 3 way (has x2 5.25" drivers each tower)
Rear surrounds: Micca OoO's (MTM with 3" drivers 4 ohms, is it a good idea to be mixing speakers of different ohms ratings?)
Room dimensions: 12 x 10, couch is against back wall, 9 feet from front speakers & television

My issue is that it seems like I have to crank the Sony receiver up to 30-35 to get decent volume. It doesn't seem like it's high-output & the movie dialog don’t doesn’t sound as clear & crisp as I would like.
My thoughts: I was thinking upgrading either the receiver or the speakers one at a time and I'm not sure if this receiver is getting the most out of my speakers or if the whole system sucks. It sounds pretty good but not powerful from the front soundstage.
I was thinking of upgrading my receiver and getting something like the Denon X3500H or the X3600H. I wouldn't mind having a receiver that has 2 sub outputs that are NOT in parallel but that sounds very expensive. Anyone know the best and least expensive receiver that has the capability of calibrating each sub independantly? My receiver budget is around $800.00 and my Sony was on special for $179 and currently sells for $279
As far as speakers goes, it is a small room so I want quality without having to go too big so I was thinking about starting off by upgrading the LCR's to RSL CG25's or CG23's to go with my x2 Speedwoofer 10s. My speaker budget is around $1,000.00

Thank you all in advance.

 

[mazersteven]

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[lovinthehd]

I'd work on the speakers beforer the avr. Might want to look at how well your speakers are positioned for now, too.

Sony uses a volume scale all their own compared to the other major avr brands, and if comparable to my old Sony, 30-35 isn't unusually loud, I need to move into the 40 range on that avr to get fairly loud (but haven't measured but guess around 65-70 dB average) but my speakers with that avr are somewhat less sensitive than your Sonys, too. Not all speakers are capable of their best performance at high volume, either.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Hello everyone! I'm new here and I purchased a very entry-level 5.1 system based on Gene's suggestions from one of his recommended systems.
Here is the list of gear.
AV receiver: Sony STRDH590 5.2 145w RMS x5 channels
SUB: RSL Speedwoofer 10s (I have a 2nd one on pre-order so I will have stereo subs)
Center speaker: Sony SSCS8 MTM (has x2 4" drivers)
Twin Towers: Sony SSCS3 3 way (has x2 5.25" drivers each tower)
Rear surrounds: Micca OoO's (MTM with 3" drivers 4 ohms, is it a good idea to be mixing speakers of different ohms ratings?)
Room dimensions: 12 x 10, couch is against back wall, 9 feet from front speakers & television

My issue is that it seems like I have to crank the Sony receiver up to 30-35 to get decent volume. It doesn't seem like it's high-output & the movie dialog don’t doesn’t sound as clear & crisp as I would like.
My thoughts: I was thinking upgrading either the receiver or the speakers one at a time and I'm not sure if this receiver is getting the most out of my speakers or if the whole system sucks. It sounds pretty good but not powerful from the front soundstage.
I was thinking of upgrading my receiver and getting something like the Denon X3500H or the X3600H. I wouldn't mind having a receiver that has 2 sub outputs that are NOT in parallel but that sounds very expensive. Anyone know the best and least expensive receiver that has the capability of calibrating each sub independantly? My receiver budget is around $800.00 and my Sony was on special for $179 and currently sells for $279
As far as speakers goes, it is a small room so I want quality without having to go too big so I was thinking about starting off by upgrading the LCR's to RSL CG25's or CG23's to go with my x2 Speedwoofer 10s. My speaker budget is around $1,000.00

Thank you all in advance.

Speakers will definitely be a more noticeable improvement over an AVR. I think looking at RSL is a great idea. They’re a great bunch of guys and offer amazing CS. You can also listen to them for free. But don’t be concerned about matching sub/speaker by brand unless it’s for looks.
A new AVR will potentially give you much better sound, but it would likely be from audyssey xt32 with subeqHT, and the way it handles the room and dual subs. More power could help too, but it depends on many factors like speaker sensitivity, ohm load and listening distance. Since your room is small, imo that won’t be a factor. But the RSL speakers will absolutely be better than the Sony’s.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My issue is that it seems like I have to crank the Sony receiver up to 30-35 to get decent volume. It doesn't seem like it's high-output & the movie dialog don’t doesn’t sound as clear & crisp as I would like.

1. It's never a bad idea to buy higher-end speakers or AVR.

2. A lot of people have to crank up the volume to get decent volume. It doesn't mean anything. You can easily just increase all the speaker trim levels in your AVR and then you won't have to crank up the volume of your AVR.

3. Increase the Center Channel Speaker Trim Levels in your AVR by 3 to 4 dB louder. There is no right or wrong here. It's not rocket science either. Increase the Center trim level so that you can hear the dialogue better.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

1. It's never a bad idea to buy higher-end speakers or AVR.

2. A lot of people have to crank up the volume to get decent volume. It doesn't mean anything. You can easily just increase all the speaker trim levels in your AVR and then you won't have to crank up the volume of your AVR.

3. Increase the Center Channel Speaker Trim Levels in your AVR by 3 to 4 dB louder. There is no right or wrong here. It's not rocket science either. Increase the Center trim level so that you can hear the dialogue better.

The only thing about point #3 is that if the speaker doesn’t have great clarity in the first place, it might not help. Only make it unbalanced and louder.
Definitely agree with point 1.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The only thing about point #3 is that if the speaker doesn’t have great clarity in the first place, it might not help. Only make it unbalanced and louder.
Definitely agree with point 1.

Well, it's free to simply try that. If Dialogue volume is actually loud, but still bad quality, then it's the speaker.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Well, it's free to simply try that. If Dialogue volume is actually loud, but still bad quality, then it's the speaker.

Absolutely. I should have thought if it as a test more than a solution...

 

[VMPS-TIII]

I would go with a speaker with 87db sensitivity or higher. This will give you an amazing jump in sound quality and volume even with your existing receiver. You can always upgrade the receiver later. For movies my top suggestion in a lower price range would be:

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and if you want Atmos built in I would consider this version:

Monolith by Monoprice THX-465T THX Certified Ultra Dolby Atmos Enabled Tower Speaker (Each) - Monoprice.com

The THX® Speaker Series has been engineered to deliver the highest level of accuracy and reproduce all the dynamics and detail of the best home theater soundtracks and music. Each speaker has been

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If your main venue is listening to Music I would look at the Sierra Towers and the Vento 9.2 Reference speaker. I have both of these and they offer the punch and quality I love in music listening sessions.

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[lovinthehd]

I would go with a speaker with 87db sensitivity or higher. This will give you an amazing jump in sound quality and volume even with your existing receiver. You can always upgrade the receiver later. For movies my top suggestion in a lower price range would be:

Monolith by Monoprice THX-460T THX Certified Ultra Tower Speaker (Each) - Monoprice.com

The THX® Speaker Series has been engineered to deliver the highest level of accuracy and reproduce all the dynamics and detail of the best home theater soundtracks and music. Each speaker has been

www.monoprice.com

and if you want Atmos built in I would consider this version:

Monolith by Monoprice THX-465T THX Certified Ultra Dolby Atmos Enabled Tower Speaker (Each) - Monoprice.com

The THX® Speaker Series has been engineered to deliver the highest level of accuracy and reproduce all the dynamics and detail of the best home theater soundtracks and music. Each speaker has been

www.monoprice.com

FWIW the Sony SS-CS3s were measured at 87.7dB sensitivity....

 

[VMPS-TIII]

FWIW the Sony SS-CS3s were measured at 87.7dB sensitivity....

The Sony sells for $199. The Monoprice THX tower would be a huge upgrade.

 

[lovinthehd]

The Sony sells for $199. The Monoprice THX tower would be a huge upgrade.

Could well be. Was just mentioning the sensitivity of his current speakers. Lots of speakers would be upgrades over the Sonys IMO.

 

[KEW]

What is your budget for new speakers?
I say speakers first because, while not typical, some speakers have special needs (IOW, the AVR selection is best done when you know what speakers you will drive).

One significant shortcoming of Gene's recommended systems is he needs to use MSRP for his pricing.

Often the best options involve special discounts!

One of my favorites are the JBL Studio 5 Series which is discounted around 5 times per year by about 50%!
The are competitive speakers at full price, but when deeply discounted, I feel they are no-brainers if they fit your budget!

I just checked and they are, indeed currently on sale as follows:
JBL Studio 590 for $500/ea (MSRP=$1000) (check dimensions and that these will fit your room! They are likely bigger than you think!)

Studio 590 | 250-watt, dual 8" floorstanding loudspeaker

The JBL® Studio 590 floorstanding loudspeaker brings professional-quality sound to the home experience. The Studio 590 uses the technology that JBL engineers developed for pro-audio loudspeakers to deliver accurate, powerful sound to your living room. The Studio 590 is a perfect complement to...

www.jbl.com

JBL Studio 570 for $200/ea. (MSRP=$600)(a smaller sized version of the 590, I have not heard these, but they should be fine for handing off bass to your Speedwoofers, JBL uses good drivers in this series and I am familiar with the 530 bookshelf which uses the same 5-1/4 inch woofer)

Studio 570 | Professional-quality150-watt Floorstanding Speaker

JBL Studio 570 floorstanding loudspeaker delivers robust sound at a professional level and can work with multiple power amplifiers and fit any home decor.

www.jbl.com

JBL Studio 520 Center for $190/ea (MSRP=$350)

Amazon.com: JBL Studio 520CBK 2-Way Dual 4-Inch Center Channel Speaker: Electronics

Amazon.com: JBL Studio 520CBK 2-Way Dual 4-Inch Center Channel Speaker: Electronics

www.amazon.com

Do a little research on these, but if they fit your budget, I don't think you can find better!
Unfortunately, JBL is not showing when the sale will end, so either be fairly quick or willing to wait a couple of months if you are interested!

As far as surrounds, they do not need to match as much as the front 3.
However, I firmly believe in more or less ignoring the surrounds in the interest of getting the front 3 you want.
Stick with the Miccas for now.
Then, you can wait until the 530's go on sale for $300 - 350/pr. (they are not currently on discount)!
On the other hand, it is hard to recommend the 530's for surrounds if you can get a pair of 570's for $400! That mainly depends on if you have room to use tower speakers as your surrounds!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Absolutely. I should have thought if it as a test more than a solution...

Definitely a lot more fun to spend a lot of money.

 

[mazersteven]

If your main venue is listening to Music I would look at the Sierra Towers and the Vento 9.2 Reference speaker. I have both of these and they offer the punch and quality I love in music listening sessions.

His stated speaker budget was $1,000 give or take you just took him well past that

I guess if he doesn't get a receiver that might put him there at least a little closer

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Could well be. Was just mentioning the sensitivity of his current speakers. Lots of speakers would be upgrades over the Sonys IMO.

And sensitivity would not be an indicator of “quality” either.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

I'm finding higher quality speakers with sensitivity of 87 or higher tend to provide more punch and get my foot tapping vs high quality designs with lower sensitivity. Even when I apply more power to the less sensitive speaker it doesn't usually offer the same feel.

In some cases, EQ changes in the mid-bass can offer some difference but of all the speakers I own the ones with highest sensitivity are my favorites.

Obviously, a low cost speaker with high sensitivity will not fit my crazy analysis.

I have the Monolith by Monoprice THX-365C THX Certified Ultra Center Channel and that speaker is amazingly powerful and smooth sounding. I thought about changing out the center to match the Sierra Towers but I REALLY like the strong, smooth sound of the THX-365C. So I'm going to keep it.

The Monoprice THX-460T THX offers the same drivers x2 with that same power and 89db sensitivity. These are great sounding speakers that don't get much attention.

 

[mazersteven]

I'm finding higher quality speakers with sensitivity of 87 or higher tend to provide more punch and get my foot tapping vs high quality designs with lower sensitivity. Even when I apply more power to the less sensitive speaker it doesn't usually offer the same feel.

^ crazy analysis.

Absolutely!!!

 

[primalspy]

What is your budget for new speakers?
I say speakers first because, while not typical, some speakers have special needs (IOW, the AVR selection is best done when you know what speakers you will drive).

One significant shortcoming of Gene's recommended systems is he needs to use MSRP for his pricing.

Often the best options involve special discounts!

One of my favorites are the JBL Studio 5 Series which is discounted around 5 times per year by about 50%!
The are competitive speakers at full price, but when deeply discounted, I feel they are no-brainers if they fit your budget!

I just checked and they are, indeed currently on sale as follows:
JBL Studio 590 for $500/ea (MSRP=$1000) (check dimensions and that these will fit your room! They are likely bigger than you think!)

Studio 590 | 250-watt, dual 8" floorstanding loudspeaker

The JBL® Studio 590 floorstanding loudspeaker brings professional-quality sound to the home experience. The Studio 590 uses the technology that JBL engineers developed for pro-audio loudspeakers to deliver accurate, powerful sound to your living room. The Studio 590 is a perfect complement to...

www.jbl.com

JBL Studio 570 for $200/ea. (MSRP=$600)(a smaller sized version of the 590, I have not heard these, but they should be fine for handing off bass to your Speedwoofers, JBL uses good drivers in this series and I am familiar with the 530 bookshelf which uses the same 5-1/4 inch woofer)

Studio 570 | Professional-quality150-watt Floorstanding Speaker

JBL Studio 570 floorstanding loudspeaker delivers robust sound at a professional level and can work with multiple power amplifiers and fit any home decor.

www.jbl.com

JBL Studio 520 Center for $190/ea (MSRP=$350)

Amazon.com: JBL Studio 520CBK 2-Way Dual 4-Inch Center Channel Speaker: Electronics

Amazon.com: JBL Studio 520CBK 2-Way Dual 4-Inch Center Channel Speaker: Electronics

www.amazon.com

Do a little research on these, but if they fit your budget, I don't think you can find better!
Unfortunately, JBL is not showing when the sale will end, so either be fairly quick or willing to wait a couple of months if you are interested!

As far as surrounds, they do not need to match as much as the front 3.
However, I firmly believe in more or less ignoring the surrounds in the interest of getting the front 3 you want.
Stick with the Miccas for now.
Then, you can wait until the 530's go on sale for $300 - 350/pr. (they are not currently on discount)!
On the other hand, it is hard to recommend the 530's for surrounds if you can get a pair of 570's for $400! That mainly depends on if you have room to use tower speakers as your surrounds!

I’d say my budget for LCR is $1000. I have a 2nd sub to match my existing RSL Speed Woofer 10s

 

[mazersteven]

Here's another recommendation get two of these. I know slightly over your budget and then save for a center you can run with a phantom Center for now

Prime Pinnacle

Audiophile refinement, breathtaking home theater dynamics. World class audio for everyone.

www.svsound.com