Upgrade from SB-2000 PRO?

[shadyJ]

I have the SB2000 Pro and it's a great sub for its size. My room is about 12x18x7 with an open doorway in the far corner and it provides plenty of bass on its own. I went for the sealed version partly due to space limitations. From my research (and from what shadyJ has mentioned) sealed subs can have slightly better dynamics in the mid bass. Ported subs will have slightly better dynamics in the very low end. What you loose going sealed is primarily low frequency extension. The sealed version goes down to 19Hz while the ported version goes down to 16Hz. So it depends upon what kind of listening you do and the performance you're looking for. Ported subs will do better with movie sound tracks that have very deep effects. They also perform better on things like pipe organ music and EDM which can reach down to 16Hz. For most music listening either will do fine and will be a big improvement over a cheap sub or no sub at all (unless you're one of the few to have full range speakers).

This is mostly correct, except the notion that sealed can have better dynamics in mid-bass; they don't. They simply have similar dynamics, although they still may be shy a dB or 2 from their ported brothers. As for the sealed version of any sub going down to 19Hz, forget about that. Many manufacturers use equalization to boost the low-end response of their sealed subs. While the sealed sub can maintain that response at a low drive level, it very quickly compresses past moderate loudness demands. I wouldn't expect much output from the SB-2000 Pro below 35Hz or so, maybe just a little bit.

 

[Eppie]

This is mostly correct, except the notion that sealed can have better dynamics in mid-bass; they don't. They simply have similar dynamics, although they still may be shy a dB or 2 from their ported brothers. As for the sealed version of any sub going down to 19Hz, forget about that. Many manufacturers use equalization to boost the low-end response of their sealed subs. While the sealed sub can maintain that response at a low drive level, it very quickly compresses past moderate loudness demands. I wouldn't expect much output from the SB-2000 Pro below 35Hz or so, maybe just a little bit.

Appreciate the feedback James, thanks.

 

[Pogre]

From my research (and from what shadyJ has mentioned) sealed subs can have slightly better dynamics in the mid bass. Ported subs will have slightly better dynamics in the very low end. What you loose going sealed is primarily low frequency extension. The sealed version goes down to 19Hz while the ported version goes down to 16Hz. So it depends upon what kind of listening you do and the performance you're looking for. Ported subs will do better with movie sound tracks that have very deep effects. They also perform better on things like pipe organ music and EDM which can reach down to 16Hz. For most music listening either will do fine and will be a big improvement over a cheap sub or no sub at all (unless you're one of the few to have full range speakers).

Some ported subs can have slightly better dynamics with mid bass than some sealed subs too. Shady also says that aside from space limitations there is absolutely no advantage with sealed subs. Ported subs will do better with movie soundtracks and pipe organ, yes. They will also do equally as well with any music, so it really just comes down to size constraints. Sealed subs having better dynamic mid bass is debatable at best. A lot of that depends on design, build and tuning. My ported HSUs have good extension to 16 hz, but really shine with mid bass output when compared to SVS' subs, sealed included.

I'm not beating you up or think that you don't have good subwoofage. I know it's a very good fit for your room and SVS don't make a subwoofer that sucks. Your post kinda reads like it's tip-toeing right up to the edge of saying sealed subs are better for most music tho, and I just wanted to clarify.

 

[Pogre]

This is mostly correct, except the notion that sealed can have better dynamics in mid-bass; they don't. They simply have similar dynamics, although they still may be shy a dB or 2 from their ported brothers. As for the sealed version of any sub going down to 19Hz, forget about that. Many manufacturers use equalization to boost the low-end response of their sealed subs. While the sealed sub can maintain that response at a low drive level, it very quickly compresses past moderate loudness demands. I wouldn't expect much output from the SB-2000 Pro below 35Hz or so, maybe just a little bit.

Beat me to it!

 

[Eppie]

Beat me to it!

I read a review where that applied to one particular brand of sub, but shouldn't have made that generalization. I do see a lot of people say that sealed is better for music, a common misnomer.

 

[Oggaaaa]

Why would anyone buy a sealed sub other then space concerns? When i bought my sb2000 pro i thought it performed closely to the pb2000pro because of "room gain" and was better for music. Guess i was a little fooled hehe.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Why would anyone buy a sealed sub other then space concerns? When i bought my sb2000 pro i thought it performed closely to the pb2000pro because of "room gain" and was better for music. Guess i was a little fooled hehe.

Imo only for space concerns. And possibly if you only listen to normal music. EDM and dubstep type music can definitely benefit from ported subs with the added extension and output. No. You weren’t fooled by the room gain thing either. It’s just that it can be very highly overstated. It’s different for every room/sub combination, so even though it’s calculable, it’s not exact.
Better for music though? Nah… wives tale.

 

[Oggaaaa]

Opening up this thread again. I havent pulled the trigger on a new sub just yet because Arendal has caught my attention. They have gotten great reviews and are pretty good value here in Sweden. Any thoughts on them? The 1723 1V and 1723 2S/2v is what i´ve been looking at. They seem to get beaten in the lower octaves by the SVS subs but get praised for being more "precise" and "tight" and hit harder above 50hz.

Also on the SVS side the PC-4000 seems like a solid choice. Its on sale at the moment and its currently 417 dollars more expensive then the PB-3000. Which one would you choose?

 

[shadyJ]

Opening up this thread again. I havent pulled the trigger on a new sub just yet because Arendal has caught my attention. They have gotten great reviews and are pretty good value here in Sweden. Any thoughts on them? The 1723 1V and 1723 2S/2v is what i´ve been looking at. They seem to get beaten in the lower octaves by the SVS subs but get praised for being more "precise" and "tight" and hit harder above 50hz.

Also on the SVS side the PC-4000 seems like a solid choice. Its on sale at the moment and its currently 417 dollars more expensive then the PB-3000. Which one would you choose?

While I don't have any experience with Arendal subs, I think they would be very good. I think their vented subs would be competitive with SVS subs, although perhaps not quite on the level of the PB-4000 or PB16 in very deep bass below 30Hz. As for the PC-4000 vs the PB-3000, I think the primary difference would again be in stuff lower than 30Hz, so very deep bass. How much you value the super deep bass should determine what sub you should get here.

 

[Eppie]

Good advice from shadyJ. The specs on the 1V look very good. shadyJ measured the 1723 THX Monitors and his measurements were close to what Arendal reports on their web site, so I would expect their sub measurements to be close to what people will experience in a normal setting. The vented EQ1 setting goes pretty deep and even deeper on the 2V. If comparing to the SVS models I would opt for the vented versions. If you like electronic or orchestral music with pipe organ, those can go below 20Hz (16Hz for the largest pipes). Those all look like pretty solid options. Do you have space to go for 2 subs eventually? If the Ultra Towers + SB-2000 Pro are not enough to satisfy you, I would consider maybe going for 2 cheaper models, maybe two Arendal 1V vs one 2V or two PB-3000.

 

[Oggaaaa]

Thanks for the good inputs . I will get 2 subs eventually but at my current place 2x PB 3000 is stretching it space wise. For that reason the PC-4000 is a very attractive choice. Is there any reason i shouldnt get the PC 4000?

I have been talking directly with Arendal and they recommend the 1723 2S over the 1723 1V as im listening mostly to music and it got more output above 40hz. They said the 2V is just as good if you plug the ports but it takes up alot more space so they didnt recommend it if im mostly enjoying music. Im a bit sceptical to that "sealed is better for music" talk because of all the advice to go ported from you guys.

 

[Eppie]

Thanks for the good inputs . I will get 2 subs eventually but at my current place 2x PB 3000 is stretching it space wise. For that reason the PC-4000 is a very attractive choice. Is there any reason i shouldnt get the PC 4000?

I have been talking directly with Arendal and they recommend the 1723 2S over the 1723 1V as im listening mostly to music and it got more output above 40hz. They said the 2V is just as good if you plug the ports but it takes up alot more space so they didnt recommend it if im mostly enjoying music. Im a bit sceptical to that "sealed is better for music" talk because of all the advice to go ported from you guys.

I thought for a while that sealed was better for music, but there have been enough tests to show that that is not the case. As shadyJ mentioned earlier in this thread, sealed subs often use equalization to reach the lowest frequencies, so they are fine at moderate volume but at higher volumes can not match the dynamics of ported subs at low frequencies . Plugging ports does not make sense to me, unless it is used to correct room responses, and the phone app allows for some correction any way.

I see no reason to avoid the PC 4000 unless someone else wants to jump in? I think it's more about looks. Some people may not like the height of the PC 4000, although the foot print is nice and small. The PB 3000 is only rated 1 Hz lower, so rather insignificant given room gain and correction via the app.

As to the 2S vs the 1V that's a tougher choice. The 1V is ported with an 800W amp, but the 2S has dual drivers and a 1200W amp, with both models rated down to 17Hz using EQ1. So, do the dual drivers and increased power in the 2S make up for the low end dynamics lost in using a sealed cabinet? The average output on the 2S is rated higher by 3dB and with a sealed sub you don't have to worry about port chuffing. I think they are all pretty good options so it might be hard to find someone that will recommend one over the rest.

 

[shadyJ]

Good advice from shadyJ. The specs on the 1V look very good. shadyJ measured the 1723 THX Monitors and his measurements were close to what Arendal reports on their web site, so I would expect their sub measurements to be close to what people will experience in a normal setting.

Arendal is confident enough in the performance of their subs that they are sending us some in for review. That says something right there.

 

[Eppie]

Arendal is confident enough in the performance of their subs that they are sending us some in for review. That says something right there.

Nice! Their subs look as nice as their speakers and likewise the numbers look pretty good too. Would be interesting if they send both the 1V and 2S and see if a sealed unit with more power and dual drivers can match a lesser powered ported unit in the low end.

 

[Oggaaaa]

Nice! Their subs look as nice as their speakers and likewise the numbers look pretty good too. Would be interesting if they send both the 1V and 2S and see if a sealed unit with more power and dual drivers can match a lesser powered ported unit in the low end.

Under 31hz the 1V got the edge. Would be interestning to know how much the difference are in an actual room.

 

[Oggaaaa]

I ended up ordering the PC-4000. They lowered the price even more and it ended up 300 dollars more expensive then the PB-3000 so i thought it was a better deal.

Should be a great bump compared to the sb-2000 pro i think.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Should be a great bump compared to the sb-2000 pro i think.

This is an understatement.

 

[Hetfield]

I ended up ordering the PC-4000. They lowered the price even more and it ended up 300 dollars more expensive then the PB-3000 so i thought it was a better deal.

Should be a great bump compared to the sb-2000 pro i think.

Oh yeah I'd say a giant leap in quality. You are in for some treat.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Oggaaaa]

Recieved the sub about a week ago. Its actually pretty insane, hope my neighbours also like it xD

I had the sub cornerloaded at first like i did with my SB-2000 Pro but i had a huge dip at 20hz and around 60-70hz. The best spot seemed to be to the right of the right speaker. The measurements is down below. What do you think about them?

 

[Eppie]

Wow, that is a massive sub. One of the bass-heads here will probably comment on the graph.