Upgrade from pioneer vsx 1020k

M

matdrinan1989

Audiophyte
Hi I'm looking at upgrading from a pioneer vsx 1020k as I've had it for 10 yrs and just want something with more grunt for my jbl studio 180s which can handle up to 200 watts rms and are bi-amped and got jbl studio 120 as my centre which can handle 120watts rms Max and by bookshelf speakers are tannoy mini eclipse. I did have jbl studio 130 but one of them the voice coil is damaged from the amp clipping when I accidentally set it to large instead of small. I did have my mains set to small but I notice the receiver is weak with powering the speakers to full range but sounds better with setting to small but lacks driving my mids. They're sensitivity is 89db and I have it in the lounge room and I'm always cranking it nearly all the way up when watching movies and I already have the centre set to 3db and the dialogue is still not loud enough as I don't want to push the amp too hard as it's only pushing 33 watts

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
How do you figure you're only getting 33w from your avr? You realize passive bi-amping with an avr is mostly worthless (mostly about marketing, as are the terminals on your speakers)? I take it you like it very loud....you might start by using something like this spl calculator rather than using max speaker wattage ratings which are largely useless except to know not to go past. Are you using a sub?
 
M

matdrinan1989

Audiophyte
Well my specs say it's 65watts FTC stereo even tho it says it is 85watts 20hz to 20,000hz per channel but doesn't say how many channels but does say upto per channel and the transformer is only 245 watts. Heaps of people saying it drives 30 to 35 watts all channel driven as I divide 245 watts into 7. I am running a sub and my speaker are 3 way so it has 2 pairs of terminals one for low and the other for high. I am running a sub and the speakers go down to 45hz. But the receiver only sets crossover across all speakers not individually. It does say peak power for the mains is 360 but says it needs 25 watts to 200 watts amp power. At the moment I'm able to get around 80db out of my fronts.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
You need to brush up on specs and their meanings to a degree. Looking at your unit's manual it's rated at 80wpc (8 ohms, 20hz-20khz, at .08%THD). I'm not sure where you get the 65wpc spec from. Sure, an all channels driven test will not yield 80wpc but that's largely irrelevant. At any given time in each channel you can get up to 80w, tho. If you double the power you'd gain 3dB spl. Not saying a more powerful amp may not help, it well could. An avr with more flexible bass management (crossovers per channel/speaker can be nice) may be nice, too.

Your speakers largely have those "bi-amping/bi-wiring" terminals due to the competition having them, and your avr as well; in any case your avr is sending the same signal to each. Real bi-amping requires the removal of your passive crossover networks and two amps and an active crossover. Try this on the subject of passive bi-amping as you're doing https://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring

The power supply I'm sure is more capable than only 245W, you might be looking at some sort of consumption spec that's undefined? Many do look at such a spec and misinterpret/extrapolate.

Hard to believe you're only getting 80dB spl but I don't know how far from the speakers you are, either. How far away are you and how did you measure 80dB? Your speakers can do quite well on 25watts, it's not a minimum "needed".
 
M

matdrinan1989

Audiophyte
Mines the Australian spec so it's got a bit more power and the manual i got a different to the online version which is the states version not the international version. Well i am looking at upgrading just to support 4k and just to sound better as at the moment I'm driving the amp up at around - 25db or more. I got it set up in a open lounge room as the lounge room is in the same room as the kitchen but i'm sitting about 4 meters or so. I could be wrong when I get 80db as I haven't measured the sound properly but I prefer to hear at around half way instead of cranking it up especially with the dialogue being quiet

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Mines the Australian spec so it's got a bit more power and the manual i got a different to the online version which is the states version not the international version. Well i am looking at upgrading just to support 4k and just to sound better as at the moment I'm driving the amp up at around - 25db or more. I got it set up in a open lounge room as the lounge room is in the same room as the kitchen but i'm sitting about 4 meters or so. I could be wrong when I get 80db as I haven't measured the sound properly but I prefer to hear at around half way instead of cranking it up especially with the dialogue being quiet

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Yeah that can be different again as to requirements/standards for spec. Upgrading for 4k is done easily enough as it's fairly leveled out now. I just wouldn't put too much into avr power differences in general, most only vary by a 1-2 dB. At -25dB on a calibrated avr (i.e. approx 60dB average, plus 20dB peaks) it sounds like your demands are very reasonable for power. Not sure what you mean by half way on the volume, is that the -25 level? Easy enough these days to use an spl meter app even with a phone's mic except for the lowest and highest frequencies, but should give you a good idea.
 
M

matdrinan1989

Audiophyte
Well my receiver starts of at - 80db then goes all the way to 0db which is its Max power then goes to +12db so all up is 92 but half way would be around - 40db to - 35db on the gain. I'm looking at getting the Yamaha or the denon receiver

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Well my receiver starts of at - 80db then goes all the way to 0db which is its Max power then goes to +12db so all up is 92 but half way would be around - 40db to - 35db on the gain. I'm looking at getting the Yamaha or the denon receiver

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Did you use MCACC to set everything up? Or manually so the reference scale is calibrated as such? Max power is probably more at the +12dB setting (but not necessarily within the spec from the manual for the THD, outside it would be my guess), but I'd probably never go above 0dB with most sources unless it was a particularly low level one. -40 to -35 isn't all that loud at all, or even -25; I watch most movies at -20 myself. Hard to judge for music as the scale is based on movie recording standards; music standards vary. Source level can play a role, too. My last Pioneer crapped out just after warranty expired so don't think of them much any more, especially in their being acquired by Onkyo now, but have a couple Denons that I like a lot. Mostly I'd pick on feature set/connectivity you want and an appropriate amp section (or a unit with pre-outs for all channels so you have amp flexibility). Denon, Marantz and Yamaha would be my first looks for new avr, maybe an Onkyo or Pioneer if the price was right.
 
M

matdrinan1989

Audiophyte
I lost my microphone so I had to measure my speaker distance manually and used my phone to set speaker level at around 72db. When I used it macc made it sound a bit tinny when using for music but was good for movies but felt like it was missing the brightness and crispness. I listen to music a lot and watch movies as well. I usually do watch movies at - 20 and music around that pending on the source. I'm looking at the Yamaha rxa 1080 or the 2080

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
I lost my microphone so I had to measure my speaker distance manually and used my phone to set speaker level at around 72db. When I used it macc made it sound a bit tinny when using for music but was good for movies but felt like it was missing the brightness and crispness. I listen to music a lot and watch movies as well. I usually do watch movies at - 20 and music around that pending on the source. I'm looking at the Yamaha rxa 1080 or the 2080

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
It has to do with the gain structure, that pioneer likely have the typical gain of 29 dB for receivers and amplifiers, so if you upgrade to a more power one that also has about 29 dB gain such as the Yamaha RX-A3080 you will still have to turn it up to about the same -20 for the same perceived level.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
I lost my microphone so I had to measure my speaker distance manually and used my phone to set speaker level at around 72db. When I used it macc made it sound a bit tinny when using for music but was good for movies but felt like it was missing the brightness and crispness. I listen to music a lot and watch movies as well. I usually do watch movies at - 20 and music around that pending on the source. I'm looking at the Yamaha rxa 1080 or the 2080

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
If you lost the mic how did you use MCACC with your phone?
 
M

matdrinan1989

Audiophyte
I didn't I head to measure the speaker distance and speaker level manually by using a measuring device for measuring speaker distance and used my phone for speaker level as u don't have a propper speaker level device

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
I didn't I head to measure the speaker distance and speaker level manually by using a measuring device for measuring speaker distance and used my phone for speaker level as u don't have a propper speaker level device

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
So using MCACC was before you lost the mic? I'm just confused on how MCACC came into it....
 
M

matdrinan1989

Audiophyte
I have used macc before I lost the microphone and I also have been moving houses as well

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
I have used macc before I lost the microphone and I also have been moving houses as well

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Gotcha. I had a 919 some time back and found MCACC acceptable, plus it had various ways to manipulate it which is nice. No experience with YPAO or Yamaha for me, tho...
 

newsletter
  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top