Vancouver

Vancouver

Full Audioholic
Can someone explain in simple terms how/why upconverting video signals can make picture qulity better? Or does it in fact make it better?
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
I thought we went over this, but I'll try again.

Upconverting comes in several flavors and one of the best flavors is pixel for pixel mapping.

Take a display that has a native resolution of 1365x768 pixels (WXGA). That display must covert any image put on screen to 1365x768 before you can see it. Since no broadcast standard includes 1365x768, this means that you are sending it something different, and it must be up converted, or down converted to 1365x768 progressive. This is the law with all 1365x768 fixed pixel displays. There are a very few that will allow 720p to actually only use 1280x720 pixels, but these are few and far between.

The actual term for what is going on is scan converting. Taking a multitude of different format inputs, and converting them into one specific output. This already happens inside your plasma, lcd, dlp, lcos device.

Once you understand that a computer chip and electronics makes all this happen, and it must deal with tens of millions of pixels every second, it is easy to understand how a high quality outboard scan converted can do a much better job than the one Panasonic included for you inside their plasma.

In much the same way better audio components throughout your room can improve the quality if your listening experience, scan converters can improve the quality of your viewing experience by increasing the quality of video that is displayed on your tv.

Also like the audio section, spending the extra cash on a new product may not really give you the satisfaction you were hoping for. You may get one and only see marginal if any improvement at all. The fixed pixel display device you have may already have killer scan converters inside of it to make the image look about as good as it can. I must say, this is typically not the case and usually you will see some level of improvement between an outboard scan converter and the one inside your display.

Check www.dvdo.com and look at their product, which I imagine you have already. You can see that their iScan HD+ product allows for full color correction, sharpness levels, and all sorts of other features that allow you to fully tweak the image before it leaves their box and goes to your display. This means that the burden of all the video processing is removed from your plasma, and now is handled inside a good outboard video processing box.

The best comparison would be buying a good A/V receiver like a RX-V2500 and then still using outboard amplifiers because it cleans up the sound and gives you more power. It may only be a marginal improvement, but it is still an improvement.
 
Vancouver

Vancouver

Full Audioholic
Thanks for the clear reply, and you are right we did already kinda of go through this before. The reason I asked it again is because I wasn't 100% sure if getting a DVD player like the 2910 that can upconver to 1080 or 720 was going to much for me when what I really need is something like the DVDO that can upconvert to 768P.

Looks like I will have to buy both to get the best picture possible. Yikes..$1000 for the player and apx $2000 for the DVDO...maybe I should just buy the new 5910.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
The data stored on DVDs is 480p. I wouldn't spend an extra 500 bucks on a DVD player that internally converts from 480p to 1080i or 720p without some major details of how good the internal scan converters are. A lot of the upconverting scan converters inside DVD players are not getting very good reviews, though a few are.

But, a product like the DVDO could take a progressive 480p input and take it directly to what you are looking for cleanly. Then you would just get a good 480p DVD player and the DVDO, and you would be sending everything to your display at 768p... if your display actually accepts 768p to begin with, which it may not. That is very display dependent. I probably would only buy stuff that I know I could return if it didn't meet my satisfaction, unless I was getting a really good deal on it.
 
Vancouver

Vancouver

Full Audioholic
I have a panasonic HD 42' plasma. I thought it was you who told me that it can only display 768p, but i am not sure. I know the manual says it can only display 480p and 1080i.

Hoow would I know what the best possible signal to display would be? Is it worth getting the DVDO if it will just convert everything to 1080i?
 
Vancouver

Vancouver

Full Audioholic
So would I get a the same picture running a denon 1710 or 1910 through the DVDO as I would running a 2910 through the DVDO?
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Your plasma accepts and processes 480p, 480i, and 1080i. It only displays 768p.

You are confusing the input resolutions with the output resolutions.

If you have a computer lcd monitor that is 1024x768 and you send it 800x600 resolution - it will still show up on the display at 1024x768. But, you won't be happy with how the picture looks. Now send that same lcd monitor 1024x768. Suddenly the image will look much better.

I would say that you may get as good or a better picture using a regular, decent quality, progressive scan DVD player instead of using an upconverting model. But, I have not run the tests myself which is why I won't say that you definitely would have a better image or not. I just believe that the odds are good that with a DVDO unit, you would likely have a better image.
 
Vancouver

Vancouver

Full Audioholic
why in the world would it not accept 768p as an input if it outputs 768p? I thought DVI or HDMI connection would assist with that?

seems strange, any anoying that no matter what it is doing internal converting. It is also strange that no one can really say one way or another if a DVDO would make a big difference or not. Isnt this an exact science with true and false rules?
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
It is an exact science, with lots and lots of variables.

Every input on your TV has to have some video processors dedicated to that input to allow for conversion from that input, to the final picture. So, your composite & s-video feeds only take 480i, your component feed (I believe) only accepts 480i, 480p, and 1080i. The DVI feed may accept dozens of different formats, including 768p...

The different resolutions your TV accpets is listed in the owners manual and the PC input (if there is one) is usually the most versatile input you have.

The variables are the problem. Every manufacturer uses different parts and uses different software to run their product. Sometimes the software is great and you have a product that is easy to use and works flawlessly... But, the hardware isn't as good so the image still doesn't look that good.

Sometimes you have great hardware, but it is a very difficult product to use. Sometime you have a mix, like I believe you have... Good hardware in general, but processors that don't handle all ATSC standard formats. The product works, looks good, but could use a little help on the processing side to make things look better.

It's not until you have an outboard processor in hand that you will really see how much better things can look.

My recommendation is, if you want to try the DVDO, then go eBay. You won't pay as much and then if you aren't happy, you can resell it for about what you paid. You may lose 50 bucks for the entire transaction if you aren't happy, or you may keep the product and know you got a good price. I have a bunch of stuff I have bought and sold on eBay (more buying then selling) and I just review old pricing and make sure I am getting a good deal.
 
Vancouver

Vancouver

Full Audioholic
thanks for the advice... I am going to buy the DVDO HD+ friday and will give a review. If you have any other input or ideas on how I can get the most out of my plasma let me know...
 
Rex

Rex

Audioholic
Just to chime in here, what about players that supposedly upconvert and line double to improve picture quality.
 

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top