Under Garage Theater new construction

[Best3175]

Interested in your ideas to help with a new home build.

I currently have a home theater I built in my basement living room. It is not enclosed and I am excited to see shat kind of audio I am able to generate with an enclosed theater room.
Current build is a Panasonic PT-AE2000U projector. A Da-Lite tensioned electronic acoustically transparent screen. I. Hate. It. It is perforated and ruined my projection.
Behind it is a Kef Reference 204c center channel speaker. Main speakers are Kef iQ9s. Surround speakers are B&W 604 S2 towers. Rear speakers are in ceiling drop down Kef Ci series speakers. I. Hate. These. Speakers. They sound horrible.
I have three subwoofers and could never get enough bass in the open room. HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP. Velodyne 15”. And I forget what the other 12” sub is.
I have a Denon AVR-X7200WA receiver. An Emotiva XPA-200 amp for the front channels. And a Sony ES BDP-7000ES Blu-ray changer.
I think there are a few other components but those are the main pieces.
When I built this theater, I had an audio/video closet next to it and all wires were run into it.

We are building a new home and are finishing a room under a two car garage. This will be the home theater. Solid, exterior for the entrance. There should be good sound isolation from the rest of the house. And the theater should sound very well.

1. I originally planned to mount a screen on the wall. Place a center channel below and a tower on each side. BUT I have read that woven, acoustically transparent screens do not ruin a profiting like perforated. And I have heard that having three of the same speakers for mains and center is highly recommended.
A. There is still time to make this change. I could add a room behind the screen. I would even mount my subwoofers behind the screen.
B. What are the disadvantages of this? Do the subs cause the screen to move or vibrate?
C. Is it worth it. It will shrink the size of the room. I could mount a center channel above or below the screen.

The biggest issue with my gear is the most-matches speakers. I realize this and plan to upgrade to a common speaker. I always enjoyed the B&Ws and will pick up some components off eBay for now. This is probably the most economical way to go at the moment.

Plans are for a drop ceiling. I want to house two pairs of ceiling speakers for ATMOS and maybe some starlight features.
2. Are there draw backs to a drop ceiling?

I’m sure I’ll have more questions but I’m curious as to everyone’s thoughts on these.

I would really like to hear from anyone how has built a
Home theater in a room under their garage. What issues/concerns/dislikes do you have. Thanks.

 

[ryanosaur]

Your build out sounds like it has great potential!

I've heard no issues about drop ceilings in a HT room.

Others here with Projector experience ( @BMXTRIX for example) could help point you in the right direction for screens.

I would urge you to consider better speakers than B&W for HT. The 600 and 700 series speakers are not great, and better can be had at their respective price points (or cheaper!).

Matching the front 3 speaker is the most important for sound quality.

What is your Budget for the Gear?
What other gear is up for renewal/replacement?
How big is the room going to be?
Other goals with this system?

As an aside, I'm not so much familiar with the Velo Sub, but the Hsu is pretty well respected. my instinct would be to encourage you to replace the other 2 subs with matching VTF3s. (FWIW.)

Cheers!

 

[Best3175]

I agree I need to speakers. I will probably upgrade to matching Emotiva’s at some point. But I have a lot of other priorities first. Building the house, the room, the decor, a 4K projector, a projector screen, furniture and furnishings.

Right not I’m trying to determine room dimensions and if I want speakers behind the screen.

But I would like to hear your thoughts on speakers. And yes, I plan on dual or three matching subs.


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[mtrycrafts]

What is the dimension of that room? Make sure that dropped ceiling will not rattle.
If speakers behind screen, you will need perforated screen, don't forget. Fixed screen? If not, and listen to music only at times without the screen down, it may sound different. A consideration so you don't get surprised.

 

[Best3175]

I’m worried about the drop ceiling rattling. I am only familiar with drop ceilings in commercial spaces.

Room is currently 8’ ceiling x 16’ x 20’. But I don’t think I want it 16’ wide after reading about ratios. I might change it to 15’.


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[ryanosaur]

I’m worried about the drop ceiling rattling. I am only familiar with drop ceilings in commercial spaces.

Room is currently 8’ ceiling x 16’ x 20’. But I don’t think I want it 16’ wide after reading about ratios. I might change it to 15’.


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Multiples of dimensions are bad. 16x20 (4)... 15x20(5)...

Look towards golden ratios... if possible.

SOUND 101: The “Golden Acoustic Ratio”

From all the research I have been doing for the past decade, here are a few ratios that I have found that are suitable room dimensions for recording, they are: 1 x 1.6 x 2.56 (famous golden ratio)…

radiobombfm.wordpress.com

 

[BMXTRIX]

The best sound really will come by not using an AT screen. For that matter, the best video also comes from not using an AT screen. Theaters use AT screens because they have plenty of room for speakers behind the screen and really, they don't have a good spot for their huge arrays of speakers below or two the sides as they use that whole area for screen.

So, while you do get better placement, you will have that added muffling from the screen. Which is an impact, but a VERY minor one. Given the choice of AT or non-AT screens, I would always go non-AT.

It costs less, the screen will look better most of the time, the sound will be better in general.

A basic fixed frame Silver Ticket screen delivers a solid image for a fraction of the cost of other brands and is a solid way to go for a standard white screen.

But, when you go to AT screens, I would start and stop my search over at Seymour. They've been doing woven screens for years now and really lead the way in this technology. They will send you emails and samples or whatever to really help you decide exactly what is best for your situation and setup.

Keep in mind that if you intend to go 4K, that the screen matters more and more and that image size is going to matter a great deal. With a 12' viewing distance, a screen size of 150" diagonal isn't at all unreasonable. With the size of your room, I could see that being nearly a minimum screen size.

I've done a few AT screens along the way, but they've always been in smaller rooms where I couldn't build out the wall and still needed that wall space, so I've gone in-wall with an AT screen. Once with some good Martin Login in-walls that sounded very good. Another time with a cheaper setup and some Monoprice speakers which sounded... reasonable for the money.

I don't think the drop ceiling is any issue for rattling as long as it is properly installed. I'm not at all a fan of drop ceilings personally. They always just look cheap. I'd rather see a soffit around the theater. If offers some nice uplighting options as well as provides retro access for running new HDMI cabling or whatever other wiring you may need along the way. Not sure what the requirements are for a star field ceiling though, and that may be happier with a drop ceiling setup.

 

[Best3175]

Is the sound more muffled by the screen or by the first row blocking the center channel from the second row?

I absolutely hate my current acoustically transparent screen. I am leaning towards a standard screen.

I do not like drop ceilings myself. A soffit could be another choice. I am not looking for an ornate theater, but I do want something more than plain walls, ceilings, etc.

 

[TLS Guy]

I think you have problems. Those room ratios are not good and that room will always sound suboptimal what ever you do. I don't know what your house plans are, but your big problem is that the room is far too short to be optimal. You need about 10 more feet. I would not use a drop ceiling. Having the room rigid is very important.

The other problem with the room being too short is that you will not have the room to get enough seating to justify the work and expense.

I have just been through this and will post my links. But rigidity is very important. This is an ICF home which is a good start. For acoustic reasons sound insulation was placed behind all walls and under the floor, and extensive insulation over the ceiling.

This room sounds excellent and does not need any room equalization at all. You definitely hear the original acoustic and not the room predominantly.

The next is to engineer the room so all cabling can be easily changed. That means extensive use of conduit, lots of it. Also, it is strongly recommended to make that room the nerve center of IT and all AV distribution throughout the house.

Next you have to think about power protection in a project like that. That starts with whole house surge protection.

Next in new construction, and this is very, very important. You need to carefully need to plan not only your theater ground plane, but do that in conjunction of the planning of the ground plane for the whole house. In addition separating lighting circuits and appropriate dimmer selection is crucial in these days of LED light bulbs and SCR dimmers. Otherwise you will put in a lot of time and effort and end up with a noisy buzzing theater and not be able to do anything about it.

I agree ceiling speakers are a problem, and would strongly recommend a full ranger, like those from Mark Audio. You will need to build back boxes.

Build thread.

AV room.

Great room system.

Family room system.

Hopefully this will give you some ideas. You need to pick your electrician carefully. But remember you have to really understand the issues and take total control. It is highly unlikely the electrician will understand the issues involved and you can bet serious mistakes will be made without your guidance.

If it sounds complicated, that is because it is. It is what it takes however to build a first class theater.

 

[Best3175]

Yeah, it is not a good size. but it is under a garage and will surrounded by concrete and steel exterior door. Rigidity will not be an issue.

Can I over come the room dimensions with bass traps and acoustic panels? Heck, I like the look of them...kind of theaterish.

 

[TLS Guy]

Yeah, it is not a good size. but it is under a garage and will surrounded by concrete and steel exterior door. Rigidity will not be an issue.

Can I over come the room dimensions with bass traps and acoustic panels? Heck, I like the look of them...kind of theaterish.

The answer to that question is no. Careful positioning of subs will help though. If that room is only 20 ft long, I strongly advise against a projector. Too big a screen is just a horrible experience for most. I strongly recommend the 77" top of the line LG OLED. I could not be happier with mine. It gives the best picture I have seen anywhere. I wired for a projector, but would never consider that now.

If you plan reclining seats then you might just get away with 2 rows of seats. The back row though will be too close to the back wall to make the rear seats optimal. Seating takes up far more room than you think if you use recliners. If you look at my pictures, that spacing is just adequate and I mean just. I find this is an issue that takes people by surprise, so draw your seating out in the reclined positions. Seating really is a vitally important part of home theater. Remember the front row seat needs to be 12' back for visual and acoustic reasons, especially the latter.

 

[s61176553]

The best sound really will come by not using an AT screen. For that matter, the best video also comes from not using an AT screen. Theaters use AT screens because they have plenty of room for speakers behind the screen and really, they don't have a good spot for their huge arrays of speakers below or two the sides as they use that whole area for screen.

So, while you do get better placement, you will have that added muffling from the screen. Which is an impact, but a VERY minor one. Given the choice of AT or non-AT screens, I would always go non-AT.

It costs less, the screen will look better most of the time, the sound will be better in general.

A basic fixed frame Silver Ticket screen delivers a solid image for a fraction of the cost of other brands and is a solid way to go for a standard white screen.

But, when you go to AT screens, I would start and stop my search over at Seymour. They've been doing woven screens for years now and really lead the way in this technology. They will send you emails and samples or whatever to really help you decide exactly what is best for your situation and setup.

Keep in mind that if you intend to go 4K, that the screen matters more and more and that image size is going to matter a great deal. With a 12' viewing distance, a screen size of 150" diagonal isn't at all unreasonable. With the size of your room, I could see that being nearly a minimum screen size.

I've done a few AT screens along the way, but they've always been in smaller rooms where I couldn't build out the wall and still needed that wall space, so I've gone in-wall with an AT screen. Once with some good Martin Login in-walls that sounded very good. Another time with a cheaper setup and some Monoprice speakers which sounded... reasonable for the money.

I don't think the drop ceiling is any issue for rattling as long as it is properly installed. I'm not at all a fan of drop ceilings personally. They always just look cheap. I'd rather see a soffit around the theater. If offers some nice uplighting options as well as provides retro access for running new HDMI cabling Revit quantity takeoff services or whatever other wiring you may need along the way. Not sure what the requirements are for a star field ceiling though, and that may be happier with a drop ceiling setup.

Thanks in advance of any help