Ukraine – Russia … not more of the last thread

SithZedi

SithZedi

Audioholic General
Have you ever read the full story of the Bismarck? It’s a comedy of errors and unfortunate events for both the RN and the Germans. For example, Hood and Prince of Wales were initially in a strong position, set to cross the German T, and an expected intercept time / position that would have a rising sun behind them, which would have made optical range finding more difficult. They also had destroyer escorts, which could have been quite useful in an engagement. Then contact was lost… Hood and POW had to race to intercept, leaving the destroyers behind, and essentially reversing the desired positions. Naturally the British cruisers that had been shadowing the Bismarck showed up for the battle…and did absolutely nothing.

Then of course, there was the matter of the lucky torpedo hit, made possible by the German admiral sending a long radio message, believing his tail was already in the ringer when the British had lost contact again. Naturally the British initially screwed up locating the Bismarck for a bit after that, and had nothing in position that could effectively engage except aircraft. So what do they do? Try and torpedo a RN cruiser in a (thankfully failed) friendly fire incident.o_O

Re: the Bismarck’s design, there was good and bad. It essentially utilized a spaced array armor system, which was a slightly beefed up version of what was on the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau. While it was extremely difficult to put a shell in its machinery and magazine spaces due to the layout, there were potential vulnerabilities due to the main armored deck sitting so low in the ship. IIRC, the British got their hands on some design details after Bismarck was sunk and a few crew members were rescued with it. Their remarks weren’t particularly flattering, and noted that it would be especially vulnerable to semi-armor piercing munitions. While these would fail to penetrate the main armor deck, the shock would likely create major problems for gun mounts, machinery, etc.
Yes, its a great naval story and I read all the stories I could get my hands on as a kid. I always catch the old 60s movie Sink the Bismarck on TCM when they show it. Built the plastic models of it, Prinz Eugen, Prince of Wales and more...It was great to be a kid in the 60s.

Even though they were the enemy, I was always sad at many of the sailors fate after the battle. There was an alleged U Boat sighting and the Brits abandoned their rescue. Many were left to die in the North Atlantic. That's a sailor's risk and it certainly happened to many American sailors and merchant marine as well.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
Yes, its a great naval story and I read all the stories I could get my hands on as a kid. I always catch the old 60s movie Sink the Bismarck on TCM when they show it. Built the plastic models of it, Prinz Eugen, Prince of Wales and more...It was great to be a kid in the 60s.

Even though they were the enemy, I was always sad at many of the sailors fate after the battle. There was an alleged U Boat sighting and the Brits abandoned their rescue. Many were left to die in the North Atlantic. That's a sailor's risk and it certainly happened to many American sailors and merchant marine as well.
I’ve always had an interest in the naval warfare of WWI and II. From SMS Emden’s cruise to the battle off Samar, there are a lot of cool stories with odd twists and turns. Plus, with the naval museum in DC and Norfolk near by, the sheer scale involved with the ships and weapons was always impressive. I don’t wish the fate so many sailors suffered on anyone though. Heck, I couldn’t even imagine life on something like an old sub or destroyer. I’ve been in the crew quarters of a battleship, and that seemed like a pretty miserable way to live. On a truly cramped ship…pass.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
This is a laugh out loud serious set back for the Russians.
. . .
"Good news Comrades, the fire on the Moskva has been extinguished."
I normally try to avoid indulging in shadenfreude, but I'm going to mentally marinade in it for awhile in this case.
 
SithZedi

SithZedi

Audioholic General
I’ve always had an interest in the naval warfare of WWI and II. From SMS Emden’s cruise to the battle off Samar, there are a lot of cool stories with odd twists and turns. Plus, with the naval museum in DC and Norfolk near by, the sheer scale involved with the ships and weapons was always impressive. I don’t wish the fate so many sailors suffered on anyone though. Heck, I couldn’t even imagine life on something like an old sub or destroyer. I’ve been in the crew quarters of a battleship, and that seemed like a pretty miserable way to live. On a truly cramped ship…pass.
I have always loved naval history too. I was hooked from when I was kid since my dad was in the Navy in WW2 and read all the books I have time for even ancient battles. I envy your proximity to Norfolk. The closest ship to me is the Intrepid which I try to get to every few years. When I am in London I try to do the tour of the HMS Belfast every few years. That's a much smaller ship than one would think but it's a light cruiser from the 30s so there's that.

Naval tech played a huge role in shaping world history via battles, clearing/expanding ancient trade routes, and of course exploration. A very underrated and underappreciated subject indeed.
 
SithZedi

SithZedi

Audioholic General
I normally try to avoid indulging in shadenfreude, but I'm going to mentally marinade in it for awhile in this case.
Marinade away. I read one of the Russian admirals in charge of the Black Sea Navey suffered a heart attack hearing news of the "fire". The sinking should set back plans for future amphibious assaults by the Russkies on the Black Sea coast. Kudos to the Ukrainians for learning to fire the Neptune so quickly.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I normally try to avoid indulging in shadenfreude, but I'm going to mentally marinade in it for awhile in this case.
I share the indulgence in shadenfreude … the Moskva almost certainly fired cruise missiles at Ukrainian cities on the Black Sea coast.

I also feel for the crew of the Moskva. They received the hell that their bosses deserved.
 
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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
All this talk about naval surface ships, armor & big guns is dinosaur talk.

Beginning in WW2, it was really all about submarines (German, US, and later Russian), anti-sub warfare (mainly developed by the UK, and less so by the US), and communications & signals intelligence (US & UK).

The development of effective anti-sub tactics by the RN is IMO the best story out of WW2, followed by the better known story of the USN’s carrier aviation.

A good book about US vs. USSR subs during the Cold War is
Blind Man’s Bluff by Sherry Sontag & Christopher Drew
 
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haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Warlord
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Dutch breeders have developed a new variety of tulips. Now they are sold in Amsterdam at the flower market.
 
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Warlord
❗ Bloomberg: Russia’s first external default in a century now looks all but inevitable. It is suggested almost a 90% chance that a default will happen this year, according to the latest figures from ICE Data Services.

First, the Treasury halted dollar debt payments from Russia’s accounts in U.S. banks, ramping up its restrictions on the country. Then, when an attempted hard-currency payment was blocked, Russia breached the terms on two bonds by paying investors rubles instead of dollars.

The dollar bonds that were serviced in rubles this week have 30-day grace periods, giving Finance Minister Anton Siluanov time to find a workaround or push his argument that this isn’t a default because a payment was technically made.

“Western countries are trying in every possible way to make Russia declare default,” Siluanov told state news service Tass this week. He also said Russia will use “other mechanisms” to make payments.

Russia last defaulted in 1998, but on domestic debt. The last one on foreign debt was in the aftermath of the 1917 revolution.
 
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Warlord
russians are nazis with concentration camps


‼ Ombudswoman Liudmyla Denisova said that a camp for forced deportees from Ukraine had been set up in the Penza region of the Russian Federation.

• it is a closed institution with several buildings, surrounded by a fence, guards, and a checkpoint at the entrance;

• Ukrainians cannot move freely - it is forbidden to leave the camp;

• There are more than 400 Ukrainian citizens in the camp - mostly women and 147 children of all ages, including infants. One of these days, approximately 150 more people will be forcibly brought there;

• People have been living in the camp for several weeks. They do not have the necessary clothes, shoes, or even underwear. They were taken from the basements in winter clothes that they had been wearing;

• representatives of Sberbank arrived in the camp to collect the list of names to open accounts and transfer 10 thousand rubles, but this did not happen;

• There are also foreign students from Turkmenistan in the camp who hid in a bomb shelter under a student dormitory in Mariupol without food, water, heat and light, and then reached the temporarily occupied territory of Donetsk region on their own, from where they were forcibly taken to Russia. Unlike Ukrainians, they were allowed to leave the camp.

• There are three other similar camps in Penza region, to which residents of the occupied territories of Donetsk and Luhansk regions were deported in February before the war. Ukrainians are forcibly relocated to various regions of Russia, including Khabarovsk.
 
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Warlord
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Patron the Dog (ua for Ammo) has discovered about 150 explosive objects since the beginning of the war, - Minister of Internal Affairs Denys Monastyrsky

“His nickname suits him very well, because he, as befits an ammo, quickly and accurately neutralizes a hostile target,” he wrote.

“The rescuers said that the dog loves cheese very much. I promise to personally treat this skilled fighter in the near future. Moreover, Patron clearly follows the rules: when an air raid siren is heard, he hides in a bomb shelter. There, at his leisure, he entertains children who are staying in the shelter of the Chernihiv department of the State Emergency Service,” said Denys Monastyrsky.
 
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Warlord
❗russian nazis shelled every city in Luhansk region. There are no critical or any other infrastructure remained intact in the region
The russian nazis are destroying entire regions of Ukraine. Which, according to villain president putler, came to "protect". The world and russian nazis have opposite understandings of the word "protection." For russian nazis, it is murder and destruction. They brutally attack Donetsk region, destroyed Luhansk region. The russian horde burns everything alive and destroys everything built by Ukrainians for years.
▪High-rise buildings and private houses were damaged in Lysychansk, Severodonetsk, Zolotoye, and Kreminna.
▪A private clinic and school were destroyed in Severodonetsk, and a sports facility in Zolotoye.
▪Russians attacked the Golden District — retreated and started shooting homes.

And this is only the part of the russian nazi acts.

Source: Serhiy Haidai
 
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Warlord
I am confident we will manage to rebuild our state quickly. Whatever the losses may be... It will be a historic reconstruction. A project that will inspire the world just as our struggle for freedom. Just as our struggle for Ukraine.

Photo: Volodymyr Petrov, Serhii Korovainyi, Diego Herrera, Marian Kushnir, Laurel Chor, Heidi Levine.

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SithZedi

SithZedi

Audioholic General
All this talk about naval surface ships, armor & big guns is dinosaur talk.

Beginning in WW2, it was really all about submarines (German, US, and later Russian), anti-sub warfare (mainly developed by the UK, and less so by the US), and communications & signals intelligence (US & UK).

The development of effective anti-sub tactics by the RN is IMO the best story out of WW2, followed by the better known story of the USN’s carrier aviation.

A good book about US vs. USSR subs during the Cold War is
Blind Man’s Bluff by Sherry Sontag & Christopher Drew
I sense a "pro Sub" bias here :)

Absolutely right about the damage submarine warfare unleashed. In addition to your comments, little highlighted by the history books was the complete devastation unleashed against Japanese merchant marine in WW2 that was a large factor in crippling the Japanese Empire.

I would say that in addition to submarine warfare, air power came into it's own in WW2 and that helped end the battleship era. Pearl Harbor and the bombing of the Italian Navy at Taranto, which allegedly inspired the Japanese, opened many eyes about air power vs the big capital ships. The US pre WW2 military as always, stocked with generals who fought in WW1, had downplayed air power and ignored pioneers like Doolittle. The rest is history.

In modern times, have read many commentaries about how the Exocet missile hit on the Sheffield during the Falklands, or Malvinas, War opened up many eyes to the reality of sea skimming missiles as the biggest problem for surface vessels. This recent sinking highlights that, at least until the next one.

For those who mourn the passing of the dinosaurs, a great book is "Dreadnought". It's a heavy read but it's worth it.

 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
This is interesting. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I suspect Putin will continue to believe his own fairy tails (at least in some form) rather than come to his senses and face reality.

>>>A career diplomat who previously served as U.S. ambassador to Russia, Burns spoke at length about the "immediate" threat posed by the Kremlin's aggression, and called Russian President Vladimir Putin an "apostle of payback" whose appetite for risk has grown as his circle of trusted advisers has shrunk over the years.

"Every day, Putin demonstrates that declining powers can be at least as disruptive as rising ones," he said.

Burns recounted how he came away "troubled" from an interaction with Putin in November, when President Biden dispatched the CIA chief to Moscow to warn the Russians of the consequences of potential military action in Ukraine.

"While it did not yet seem that he had made an irreversible decision to invade Ukraine, Putin was defiantly leaning in that direction, apparently concerned that his window was closing for shaping Ukraine's orientation," Burns said.

He said Putin appeared convinced at the time that the Ukrainians would quickly submit; that his own military could achieve victory "at minimal cost;" that Europeans would remain "risk-averse" and that his own economy was "sanctions-proofed" by massive foreign currency reserves.

"When he launched his war seven weeks ago, Putin was proven wrong on each of those counts," Burns said.<<<

 
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Warlord

Russian military wife gave him permission to rape Ukrainian women.
Yet western community still thinks that Russian people can't be blamed :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
Everyone live in an area that could be targeted, the mach-10 capable rockets reach US in 20 minutes
Well I'm about 80 miles from a sub base and 50 miles from a Naval port and 91 miles from Patrick AFB and Cape Canaveral.
 
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