typical newbie questions ;)

[smitty78]

Hello, I'm a newbie to the board as you may have noticed and I have a few questions. I have a limited budget of $3000 to spend on some new speakers for a 5.1 HT setup. The amp needed will solely depend on my speaker choice and isn't included in my budget.

I live in the sticks and don't have the luxury of demo-ing them before buying them. The closest best buy is 45min away and they are extremely limited when it comes to quality setups (at least our bb is).

The room where they'll be installed measures 18 x 20ft with 8 ft ceilings. There are a few windows located on two of the walls of the room. The room has hardwood flooring as well.

I enjoy the crispness and clarity of Klipsch speakers but I'm not sure they'll sound so great in the enviroment I mentioned above. I could be wrong. I'm just worried they may sound too "tinny" with all those windows and hardwood flooring. I am not a fan of the Polk speakers as I have a few friends that swear by them, they just don't sound good to my ears. I'm looking for a speaker setup with excellent midrange and "tight" or "clean" but not overpowering bass....if that makes any sense. I will be adding a sub to the system, so the towers don't have to do all the work in the low range.

So I guess my question is what would be a good choice for my particular room based on the info I have given? Also, what amp would you reccommend with that particular speaker set? Speakers that I am considering are Revel Concerta series, PSB Imagine series, Klipsch reference series, Energy RC series and Monitor Audio...not sure what series. I am open to other suggestions and appreciate any feedback that you guys/gals may have.

 

[smitty78]

Bumpity bump. I guess I wasn't specific enough in my questioning or you guys don't like newbies. haha j/k

I realize that sound quality is subjective and what I feel is great quality may sound poorly to the next man.

Well, I've managed to find a audio store just a little over an hour away that carries Definitive Tech, Klipsch, Monitor Audio and a few other brands, they were somewhat limited to what brands I was looking to try but what dealers aren't? I definitely will be doing an audition now. Since they are so far away, I'll be bringing some tunes with me to test and compare. I don't want to suffer from buyer's remorse as coming off of 3 g's for some speakers I don't like would be crushing. I'm not in any hurry, so I am just trying to gather some thoughts and suggestions before diving in.

I have read quite a few post here and there is alot of sound advice..pun intended. Even if I have to build my system a few pieces at a time, that would be fine also.

Oh, I did notice an advertisment on this board for Aperion Intimus. I was curious to see if anyone had these speakers and what their thoughts were. They were right at my budget for the 5T package. I like the 30 day trial they offer and you can't beat a 10 year warranty. All that aside, I want the best sounding speaker system I can afford. I don't consider myself an audiophile or as having a great ear for sound quality but I will certainly posts my reports on how the audition goes.

 

[m_vanmeter]

you should be able to find something you like with the dealer you mentioned. Def Tech is a excellent brand with different series speakers that will meet you expectations. Klipsch, with their loaded horn technology, is kind of a unique experience - you like them or you don't.

So, spend some time with your dealer, use your own music to test, and check out what he has.

Even though it is at the low end of your budget, check our the new EMP "Impressions" speaker sale on the site. http://store.audioholics.com/section/66381/1/

 

[smitty78]

Klipsch definately has a unique sound. I have a set of their lower end "Quintet SLs" in our bedroom paired with a low wattage HK receiver. They sound okay but they seem to lack midrange and "fullness". They tend to annoy me at lower volumes more so than when I crank them up for a BD movie, for some reason. They do the trick for PS3 gaming, however. I'm curious to hear their reference series, maybe they'll have some RF 62s or 82's I can try out.

I have a feeling that I will be more pleased with a neutral sound or maybe a slightly warm set of speakers for our main listening room. I want to be able to enjoy tunes as well as HT, with a richness that only a quality speaker set can provide. Like I mentioned, I would even consider buying the mains first, then adding as funds are available. I don't plan to buy anything else for at least 10 more years. By then, I'm sure I'll get the upgrade fever.

Those Impression speakers are definately easy on the eyes and my wife would love them to grace our den as she as a thing for dark cherry furniture. Me, I could care less, as long as they sound great. For that price, they might be worth scooping up. I could always replace those Quintets in the bedroom.

 

[lsiberian]

The Infinity Beta and Revel Concerta series are the same speakers.

I suggest you use the harman kardon store on ebay to purchae the Beta's if you want the Concerta series speakers.

 

[R-Carpenter]

can you DIY?

 

[smitty78]

can you DIY?

Do you mean like screwing some speakers into a pre-fab'd tower or enclosure of sort? ...or from the scratch? I've built sub boxes for car audio when I was younger but never with home equipment before.

 

[R-Carpenter]

You may want to look at some of this because $ for $ any of this kits will beat anything new commercially available on the market. They vary in the degree of difficulty. Some have build cabinets and crossovers, some don't but over all it's a great way to the very good level of performance.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/
http://www.madisound.com/kits/2-way-kits.php
http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?srchExt=CAT&srchCat=769

 

[smitty78]

Thanks for the links. Got me thinking outside the box or should I say "about" the box.

My only concern would be pairing the wrong system to the wrong cabinets. I mean, you would think that speaker companies have a group of folks just thinking this sh*t up when designing/redesigning their systems. Could the average audio enthusiast really build a better system for way less than reputable manufacturers that have been building these things for years? hmmm.

 

[R-Carpenter]

The internal volume of the cabinet and positioning of the drivers on the front baffle is extremely important to the sound. So, don't build the box and try a kit that's intended for smaller or bigger one.
Zaph's systems have been thought through to the balls pardon my language. There's plenty of people who build his speakers as well. I think someone on this forum has RB from madisound.
The box construction is an issue but you could improve existing boxes or build "the hell of the box" on your own. Additional bracing and better padding will improve things a bit. But don't forget that at the price you are looking to spend you just aren't going to get a well build veneered non resonant cabinets from the commercial offerings.
And yes, the audio enthusiast can build a way better system then what's available on the market at mid level. The mega buck speakers are also only available to super rich or audio enthusiasts who build for themselves.
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/index.html
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm
here are two more extremely well known guys.

 

[R-Carpenter]

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150831
guy takes apart $600 B&W. Interesting.
But here's a well known commercial speaker. It's not bad but nothing more sophisticated then dry toast.

 

[lsiberian]

The internal volume of the cabinet and positioning of the drivers on the front baffle is extremely important to the sound. So, don't build the box and try a kit that's intended for smaller or bigger one.
Zaph's systems have been thought through to the balls pardon my language. There's plenty of people who build his speakers as well. I think someone on this forum has RB from madisound.
The box construction is an issue but you could improve existing boxes or build "the hell of the box" on your own. Additional bracing and better padding will improve things a bit. But don't forget that at the price you are looking to spend you just aren't going to get a well build veneered non resonant cabinets from the commercial offerings.
And yes, the audio enthusiast can build a way better system then what's available on the market at mid level. The mega buck speakers are also only available to super rich or audio enthusiasts who build for themselves.
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/index.html
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm
here are two more extremely well known guys.

The Behringer 2030p's over damn good build quality and a good basis for modding.

I've build the Madisound and they have no baffle step compensation so you can make the box any size you want really. Just make sure you put them as close the wall as possible.

 

[R-Carpenter]

I don't think he needs to or wants to mode.
Chose a commercial speaker based on the budget, then pick up a kit based on the same budget, build it and have a laugh.

 

[smitty78]

I don't think I'm ready to dive into making cabinets/boxes but I have been considering some of the cabinets. I like the "Thor" cabinet design but not sure what to put in them?

After labor day, I will be heading down to the audio shop to see what speakers I like. At least then, I'll know what I'm aiming for. Maybe you guys can reccomend me a DIY kit that suits my tastes. I'm a sucker for cutting cost by doing a little work. Seems easy enough hooking up a few wires here and there. I've added receptacles and breakers to the house, so I'm sure I can hook up crossovers and speakers. Do they require any soldering or is it just male/female clips? Either way, it's not a big deal.

 

[R-Carpenter]

Thor design is a specific transmission line arrangement designed by Josef D'Appolito for a class leading set of Seas Exell drivers. Subjectively it is one of the best loudspeakers out there. I haven't build Thor itself but TLS did a few. He should be able to describe it. You cannot put just any drivers in any cabinets. It does not work like that.
If you look carefully at Zaph's website, some of his designs are based on Parts Express cabinets so you don't need to dive in to cabinetmaking.
Parts express sells kits with the cabinets and the cabinets are quite nice.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=302-963
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=302-953

some are sold in pairs and some are priced as singles.
Madisound sells cabinets with the specific kits as well.
Some do require soldering but most are just plug and play.

 

[smitty78]

After checking the Thor parts, I noticed they were 8" speakers which is way more than I need. I originally thought it to be a 6" kit. I really don't need anything that big being as I'll be using them in HT application as well. I'm sure it's a kick *** setup though.

I'm still fairly new to this stuff and am not technically inclined when it comes to reading specs. I noticed they were rated @ 4 ohms (Thor kit). Would that be too demanding on a receiver such as the HK 3550 HD? I was thinking about purchasing this receiver if I can get it for $700. If not, I'll probably go with a Denon or similiar "warmer" receiver.

 

[NicolasKL]

Thor design is a specific transmission line arrangement designed by Josef D'Appolito for a class leading set of Seas Exell drivers. Subjectively it is one of the best loudspeakers out there. I haven't build Thor itself but TLS did a few. He should be able to describe it. You cannot put just any drivers in any cabinets. It does not work like that.
If you look carefully at Zaph's website, some of his designs are based on Parts Express cabinets so you don't need to dive in to cabinetmaking.
Parts express sells kits with the cabinets and the cabinets are quite nice.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=302-963
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=302-953

some are sold in pairs and some are priced as singles.
Madisound sells cabinets with the specific kits as well.
Some do require soldering but most are just plug and play.

I don't really see where the cost savings are in something like this. The design is done. The cabinets are built. The crossovers are built. All the parts are all in one place, ready for assembly. All that is left is to wire it up and screw the drivers into it, which can be done in China for literally probably 2 dollars per speaker. Even if final assembly was done in the US it still wouldn't cost that much.

 

[RickH]

typical newbie questions

Bumpity bump. I guess I wasn't specific enough in my questioning or you guys don't like newbies. haha j/k

I realize that sound quality is subjective and what I feel is great quality may sound poorly to the next man.

Well, I've managed to find a audio store just a little over an hour away that carries Definitive Tech, Klipsch, Monitor Audio and a few other brands, they were somewhat limited to what brands I was looking to try but what dealers aren't? I definitely will be doing an audition now. Since they are so far away, I'll be bringing some tunes with me to test and compare. I don't want to suffer from buyer's remorse as coming off of 3 g's for some speakers I don't like would be crushing. I'm not in any hurry, so I am just trying to gather some thoughts and suggestions before diving in.

I have read quite a few post here and there is alot of sound advice..pun intended. Even if I have to build my system a few pieces at a time, that would be fine also.

Oh, I did notice an advertisment on this board for Aperion Intimus. I was curious to see if anyone had these speakers and what their thoughts were. They were right at my budget for the 5T package. I like the 30 day trial they offer and you can't beat a 10 year warranty. All that aside, I want the best sounding speaker system I can afford. I don't consider myself an audiophile or as having a great ear for sound quality but I will certainly posts my reports on how the audition goes.

Depending on the overall efficiency of your speakers you may want to consider buying a processor and using different amps for each channel. I have seen this done with some very mid fi integrated amps and the result was pretty impressive...You can use a larger amp for your center and a smaller amp for the surrounds. I think overall it gives you more control over each channel...imho.