Turntables

[Billy S]

I was just wondering if anyone had any input on turntables. I'd really like to get one, but was just wondering what those of you that are still into vinyl are using. Don't wanna break the bank here, just a decent low cost turntable.

Billy

 

[MUDSHARK]

A $500 budget would be the absolute minimum. The low cost Sony, Denon, etc... are absolute garbage and not worth the purchase. I use a Thorens but there are a few other brands in the $500-600 range that are reasonable quality. Try searching Rega and Music Hall as well as Thorens for a model in your budget range.

 

[markw]

Define "break the bank" and "decent"

Turntables can be ghhad from anywhere from around $100 or so on yp. To a great extent you get what you pay for, particularly in the entry level models. At around a couple of hunderd to a thousand dollars or so the PODR starts to cut in.

Also, are you sure your amp/receiver can handle a phono cartridge? Many cannot without an external amplifier stage. Some turntables come with a preamp (of dubious quality) built in. If not, figure on at least another hundered or so (and up) for this.

For a fairly representitive view of the current market, check out the "turntable" section here : http://www.audioadvisor.com/

If you want a better mass market view, check out turntables at J&R : http://www.jr.com/category/audio/turntables/

 

[WmAx]

I have researched turn tables for a while now. Really, most of them are junk, it seems, under $1000 mark. The typical entry level 'audiophile' table is usually a simple belt driven unit with a MDF base and a metal tube arm with 'squished' down end for the flat area to mount the head shell, aligned on basic some pivoting bearings. Usually, the motor is of questionable quality and speed stability on these entry level units.

Now, you can get a very good table for well under this range, but most so-called audiophiles won't like the solution: Technics SL1200MK2.

The Technics, simply, is a superior unit compared to the entry level audiophile decks on the market. The Technics has extremely stable speed(most audiophile tables wish they could replicate the Technics wow and flutter) with a superb quartz locked direct drive motor system. The SNR is very high, though not as high some. I can't see any problem - the record will be far more noisy than the actual table.

The arm has very precise bearings and does the job. You can actually upgrade the arm if you really want to down the line.

BTW, you want quality? The Technics uses a heavy cast and rubber constrained layer platter, and the body top/table is all heavy cast aluminum - with a solid rubber base, again, acting as a large dampening system. All of the arm assembly parts are alloy as well. No cheezy MDF table construction here. Now, the table is not pretty -- it has a utilitarian look -- not an exotic/artistic look like the majority of audiophile tables. This is a function over form affair.

New tables from highly reputable online dealers run about $450-$500.

If you are going to ask if I have one: no. I plan on getting one in the future and to a controlled level matched ABX test against the table that I just bought: Marantz TT-15SI. I'll install and set up the same cartridge on both tables and record the same track(s), then level match and time synch them, then finally compare with a software ABX comparator.

But seriously, I would not bother with these poorly made devices like the entr level Music Halls and Regas and similar compared to the Technics. If you are willing to go to the higher end(expensive) versions of the audiophile tables, then you start to get some decent build quality and better technical performance compared to the entry level units.

As for cartridge/stylus -- there seem to be a few well made units for reasonable cost. As for one example: the Denon DL-110 is supposed to have a superbly crafted point that can retrieve more information from used records(it has a smaller tip that picks up information deeper in the groove as compared to standard stylus units) and is overall a great unit so far as I can tell. It's about $140 USD.

-Chris

 

[mazersteven]

ClearAudio

Champion Series

http://www.clearaudio.de/index1.html

 

[egreen1976]

i've gotten into vinyl over the last 6 months and the one thing I would tell you is don't go cheap in the beginning. I purchased a pro-ject debut III which is a great table to start with at around $350- 450. The other you maybe interested in is the Rega P2. These seem to be the most liked entry level tables.

Since then I have upgraded the table, upgraded the cartridge, purhcased a tube phono pre amp, a speed box, record washer, etc... So what i am trying to say is the vinyl business seems to be an endless cycle of upgrades and tweeks.

That being said I havent had this much fon with my audio hobby in years, searching for vinyl and hitting local record stores are great!

Try calling musicdirect, they are VERY good at helping you choose what's right for you.

If you are interested, I am selling my pro-ject debut III (white)

 

[TLS Guy]

I was just wondering if anyone had any input on turntables. I'd really like to get one, but was just wondering what those of you that are still into vinyl are using. Don't wanna break the bank here, just a decent low cost turntable.

Billy

Welcome to the world of vinyl.

Here is a post I did back in November.

Be very careful with budget turntables. Turntables are almost entirely mechanical, and good engineering and machining pays dividends.

 

[yettitheman]

Hmm.... Regular or Linear tracking?

An old Technics SL-5 is pretty good... I used one for years... but I literally wore the needle out on it. It's a linear table.

I'm working (slowly) on resurrecting a Sansui SR-222... not very technically advanced but simple and clean looking.

 

[Billy S]

Wow....I didn't know it was gonna be that big of a deal...lol. I thought I could just go buy some vinyl and a cheap turntable and be on my way. Ok, so I'm looking at 3 different tables, Rega p1, Music Hall mm2.2, and a Pro-ject Debut III. They're under the 500.00 dollar range, but I was wondering if you guys have any input on these. Also, I have a Onkyo ht705 receiver and it has a phono input on it, will I still need an amp?

Thanks again

Billy

 

[TLS Guy]

Wow....I didn't know it was gonna be that big of a deal...lol. I thought I could just go buy some vinyl and a cheap turntable and be on my way. Ok, so I'm looking at 3 different tables, Rega p1, Music Hall mm2.2, and a Pro-ject Debut III. They're under the 500.00 dollar range, but I was wondering if you guys have any input on these. Also, I have a Onkyo ht705 receiver and it has a phono input on it, will I still need an amp?

Thanks again

Billy

I can't find any info on that receiver. Does it have a selector on the front that says either disc, LP or phono? If it does you are OK, if not you will need an preamp to boost the signal and provide equalization of the RIAA curve.

I would go with the Rega or Music Hall.

 

[Billy S]

Sorry about that, I have no idea why I put "ht705" I think I'm looking at too many things here. The reciever IS an Onkyo tx-sr705(B). Yes is has buttons on the front that say.....tape, radio, cd, phono. a different button for each.

 

[TLS Guy]

Sorry about that, I have no idea why I put "ht705" I think I'm looking at too many things here. The reciever IS an Onkyo tx-sr705(B). Yes is has buttons on the front that say.....tape, radio, cd, phono. a different button for each.

Good thing I checked. Page 39 of your manual tells you what you want to know. Unfortunately your Onkyo does not have a phono stage with high level gain and RIAA equalization. So you will need one of these between the turntable and your receiver. This one would be satisfactory. I thought that would probably be the case. Naughty of Onkyo to label a line level input as phono. You could only use a turntable with a built in preamp and you don't want one of those.

I would pick this turntable.

One of these cartridges. Top pick

Second pick.

Third pick.

That is going to be your price of entry. These choices will give you reasonable performance. A really cheap turntable set up sounds awful and it is not worth it.

The other thing you could consider is going the vintage route for turntable and arm. Something like a Thorens TD 125 with SME pickup arm.

That is the one in my downstairs system.

 

[jliedeka]

If you are going to use the phono input on your receiver, you will want a moving magnet cartridge. I'm planning to get some analog gear in the near future and I'm leaning towards a Grado cartridge.

Jim

 

[Billy S]

Alright, Thanks everybody, I atleast have a place to start. Appreciate everyones input.

Billy

 

[croseiv]

I have the Project Debut III, and it suits my needs perfectly. It's a very good TT. I recommend it.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have the Project Debut III, and it suits my needs perfectly. It's a very good TT. I recommend it.

I have not had a chance to look at that line. They are made by Sumiko. I know Needle Doctor is pushing them and they don't push rubbish. I will have a look at them next time I'm in Dinky Town.

 

[DD66000]

The cost of a good TT has really gone up the past 30 years, mostly due to inflation.
In '79 I bought a Yamaha direct drive TT for about $400. Today the $400 would closer to $1600. If I were to buy a new TT I'd go at least to $2k.
I've been thinking of possibly getting a VPI Scoutmaster, $2900/w upgraded tone arm. As I've never had a belt drive TT I don't know how much better they are, if they are.

As for the cartridge the Shure M97xE can be bought from Amazon for much less than $140, I just bought one a couple of weeks ago for $56.49.
I'm not convinced it as good as the old Shure V15 type V, but close, but for only $56, its probably the best quality/price out there right now.

http://www.amazon.com/Shure-M97xE-High-Performance-Magnetic-Cartridge/dp/B00006I5SB/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1218553526&sr=8-1

 

[3db]

2nd the Project Line of turntables

I own a Project Xpression II that I got on sale for $100 off list (nrmally $599) as the new Xpression 3's were coming in.

This turntable has a carbon fibre arm, 3 spring loaded adjustable cones for feet for leveling, and the motor is rubber isolated from the plinth. This machine is dead quiet and I've had it about a year now. I'm rediscovering my old vinyl collection again and am hearing new nuances in the music that my old turntable just didn't give me. I have the Ortofon SM20 cartridge.

 

[3db]

I have not had a chance to look at that line. They are made by Sumiko. I know Needle Doctor is pushing them and they don't push rubbish. I will have a look at them next time I'm in Dinky Town.

The thing about the Project III that I stay cleared from is that it doesn't have all tone arm adjustment facilities. Thats why I went for the Xpression II

 

[3db]

I have researched turn tables for a while now. Really, most of them are junk, it seems, under $1000 mark. The typical entry level 'audiophile' table is usually a simple belt driven unit with a MDF base and a metal tube arm with 'squished' down end for the flat area to mount the head shell, aligned on basic some pivoting bearings. Usually, the motor is of questionable quality and speed stability on these entry level units.

-Chris

The tone arms on Project Xpression II and III are carbon graphite and not squished aluminum as you say. From your arguements, I'd say your a direct drive kinda guy that doesn't like belt drives.