Turntable Inquiries, Round Two...and a CD Recorder Connection Question

[TLS Guy]

Same here. What makes or breaks a hi-fi transfer from LP to CD is the A/D converter. I have more confidence in the converters in my CD recorder than what’s in my sound card. I record to a so-called “music” CD-RW, dump to my computer, use Audacity to clean up some clicks and pops and eliminate background noise between tracks, then burn a “permanent” CD from the computer.

I also have more confidence in the phono pre-amps in vintage gear than what’s in late-model equipment. I’m using a 1977 vintage Marantz integrated amp with a 90’s Pioneer PDR-509 recorder. For playback sources I have a 90’s vintage Yamaha 3-head cassette deck and a 1977 budget Technics ’table with a Shure V15 Type 5-MR cartridge.

It was my standard practice back in the day to record my records straight to tape, and put the album away. That’s paid off great, as most of my records are near pristine. I’ve been able to make CD copies that nearly sound like original CD releases.

Good luck with your project! It’s a lot of work, but rewarding.

Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Get one of these and you won't go wrong. One of my all time best purchases.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Same here. What makes or breaks a hi-fi transfer from LP to CD is the A/D converter. I have more confidence in the converters in my CD recorder than what’s in my sound card. I record to a so-called “music” CD-RW, dump to my computer, use Audacity to clean up some clicks and pops and eliminate background noise between tracks, then burn a “permanent” CD from the computer.

I also have more confidence in the phono pre-amps in vintage gear than what’s in late-model equipment. I’m using a 1977 vintage Marantz integrated amp with a 90’s Pioneer PDR-509 recorder. For playback sources I have a 90’s vintage Yamaha 3-head cassette deck and a 1977 budget Technics ’table with a Shure V15 Type 5-MR cartridge.

It was my standard practice back in the day to record my records straight to tape, and put the album away. That’s paid off great, as most of my records are near pristine. I’ve been able to make CD copies that nearly sound like original CD releases.

Good luck with your project! It’s a lot of work, but rewarding.

Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Thanks alot Wayne! I appreciate the confidence and input here, sir.

It sounds like you and I have similar habits and viewpoints in terms of home recording; I too used to record my LP's and 45's onto Maxell XLIIS cassettes for playback in the car, and with the advent of CD-R technology, I wouldn't have it any other way than to transfer the vinyl to CD-R via a CD recorder.

Also, BTW, that's some nice vintage gear you have there, and those sites in the links on your Shack page are really fascinating; I had no idea there were websites devoted to classic cassette decks and turntables and such! That Technics table you have looks like a brute. Perhaps nothing but their current SL-1200 would be able to compete with that thing in terms of build quality and solidity.

 

[Cristofori]

I will consider both the Denon and AT as far as carts, thank you; right now I'm toying with the idea of going towards something less expensive than the Technics SL-1200 (perhaps their "consumer" level SL-BD20) and which comes with a cart already installed.

The SL-1200 is a "consumer" level TT. The others are just cheap.

I understand if you can't spring for the better TT at the moment, but if you MUST buy a cheap one, AT LEAST get one of the cartridges WmAx or myself recommended. I'm sorry, but you really can't get away with skimping in this area, it's a difference between night and day.

If you buy a headshell and the AT-440mla cartridge from Turntableneedles.com, they will install it in the headshell for you, provided you have a TT with a removable headshell (ala Technics SL-1200). It may not be perfect, but it will be close. You could always use more than one headshell anyway.

Also, You seem to be not taking to heart some sound advise regarding this matter. I'd rather go without a TT than to waste a couple of hundred on some brand new cheap thing. Trust me, I've been there and done that.

You can get by with a cheap amp and CD player. You can even get by with cheaply priced speakers (ala Behringer), but you can't get by with a lousy TT/cartridge.

There are no "best kept secrets" or miracle workers today in the area of TT analog playback at a dirt cheap price... unless your willing to go with the used market.

Wait and save your money for a better TT and cartridge or get a nicer vintage one from a reliable seller.

Thanks for the tip! I was considering going with a much more significant "step up" boutique brand like Sumiko, Rega or Pro-Ject for a table, but I always somehow come back to Technics in this regard.

Regarding the Technics, you really can't come back to what you never had in the first place. Also, if you can spring for the Rega/Project, you might as well wait a little while longer for something better (not necessarily a SL-1200). Even their base model TT's are ridiculously expensive considering what you get, and some of the cartridges that come with them are rather lousy (once again... been there, done that).

The brand new Rega P2 I bought a few years back was missing the little rubber piece on the tone arm rest right out of the box! The motor also made a strange noise occasionally and the dealer told me that this was normal. Ridiculous!

To be fair, Project/Music Hall makes some quality TT's at the upper levels, but it looks like you're not prepared to spend that kind of money anyway.

But that's interesting about Sumiko's Oyster and the Regas...indeed, you wouldn't think analog perfectionists would let QC slide even on a cart. It reminds me of the Sony Blu-ray players, which were plagued with issues from the format's launch even though Sony was and still is one of the major proponents behind the BD Association...most of their machines didn't even support the new surround codecs until generations later, if I recall correctly, and they still don't get top marks from reviewers or magazines. In that way, you would think the major force behind the high definition format winner would get their **** together, right? And that's why it reminded me of what you're saying about those TT manufacturers.

Not surprising from Sony. They've fumbled up in some way just about every great thing they pioneered save for the Compact Disc.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

The SL-1200 is a "consumer" level TT. The others are just cheap.

What I meant was, the 1200 has become more of a pro-level, pro-use workhorse; that's really what I meant by it not being a "consumer" level product.

I understand if you can't spring for the better TT at the moment, but if you MUST buy a cheap one, AT LEAST get one of the cartridges WmAx or myself recommended. I'm sorry, but you really can't get away with skimping in this area, it's a difference between night and day.

Okay. It's just that I am recalibrating my expectations for the budget for the TT at this point -- I realized that I don't think we can do the $500+ for the 1200, regardless of what cart I put on it.

If you buy a headshell and the AT-440mla cartridge from Turntableneedles.com, they will install it in the headshell for you, provided you have a TT with a removable headshell (ala Technics SL-1200). It may not be perfect, but it will be close. You could always use more than one headshell anyway.

I didn't know this; thanks for the info. I don't quite understand what you're saying about THEM installing the cart for me -- do you mean I would need to ship MY headshell TO them?

Also, You seem to be not taking to heart some sound advise regarding this matter. I'd rather go without a TT than to waste a couple of hundred on some brand new cheap thing. Trust me, I've been there and done that.

I'm not disregarding or not taking to heart the advice that's being given here, at all -- I am weighing my REALISTIC options and budget, which has recently drastically shifted to a sub-$500 range. I don't think the Technics BD20 that I mentioned in my other thread is that "cheap" compared to, say, those tables that Sony sells on Crutchfield and such.

You can get by with a cheap amp and CD player. You can even get by with cheaply priced speakers (ala Behringer), but you can't get by with a lousy TT/cartridge.

Behringer's speakers are cheaply priced, or performing?

Again, I don't feel the other Technics I was considering is "lousy."

Regarding the Technics, you really can't come back to what you never had in the first place.

What I meant was, I keep coming back to the BRAND, as I have HAD past experience with their tables, and like their products. I HAVE used the 1200's MANY years ago for DJ use, and completely forgot about their operation and such; I'm just getting back into the vinyl game again after a LONG time.

I keep returning to the Technics BRAND, is what I meant in all honesty.

Also, if you can spring for the Rega/Project, you might as well wait a little while longer for something better (not necessarily a SL-1200). Even their base model TT's are ridiculously expensive considering what you get, and some of the cartridges that come with them are rather lousy (once again... been there, done that).

I'm not sure I follow you here -- are you referring to the entry level Pro Jects/Regas? The P1 Rega seemed very affordable, from what I remember.

What makes you say "not necessarily a 1200"? Chris seems to think this is the best option in the $500-esque category, and he has stated so several times over several threads. Do you not agree?

The brand new Rega P2 I bought a few years back was missing the little rubber piece on the tone arm rest right out of the box! The motor also made a strange noise occasionally and the dealer told me that this was normal. Ridiculous!

To be fair, Project/Music Hall makes some quality TT's at the upper levels, but it looks like you're not prepared to spend that kind of money anyway.

I suppose this is what you were referring to in the statement above, in which I questioned the "entry level tables;" and no, I cannot spend for the upper level Pro Jects or Music Halls -- but that's very disheartening about your P2...

Not surprising from Sony. They've fumbled up in some way just about every great thing they pioneered save for the Compact Disc.

So it seems...

 

[Seth=L]

Again, I don't feel the other Technics I was considering is "lousy."

It is. If you can't justify spending $500 on a new table you should strongly considering buying a gently used table. There aren't many moving parts on a DD table. The motor on the SL-1200 is virtually indestructible and the tonearm, despite being an old design, is quite robust and durable. A gently used SL-1200 could be had for around $300 or less. Other robust DD tables to consider would be something like the Sony PS-X6 or PS-X7 (same as PS-X6 but with carbon fiber tonearm) in the used market which usually fetch around $100-150. The Sonys have auto return and other automatic features but the plastic gears have been known to break, disabling the automatic features. Playback operation would be similar to the SL-1200 if the automatic features did stop working, so it wouldn't be the end of the world. My PS-X6's gears work fine, but others have said that heavy use have led to broken plastic gears.

http://www.thevintageknob.org/SONY/sonyvault/PSX7/PSX7.html

These tables will outlast and outclass that other plastic dud table you were considering.

 

[WmAx]

The AT cart has not the quality of stylus of the Denons, nor does the AT have the low noise capability of the Denons on non perfect records. The Denon has a smaller profile stylus than most, designed to ride the groove deeper, avoiding much wear produced by most other styli. This is one of the reasons why the Denon is known to be much better noise levels compared to the AT. Also, the AT has a broad steady treble rise, the direct opposite of the Denon, which has a broad, slight and steady treble gradual reduction, resulting typiclaly in more 'natural/realisitc' sound.

OP, if you are not willing to go with the 1200, I do not recommend the lower unit. You need to go to used options now. You can get an incredible quality table used for $300-$400 if you shop wisely.

-Chris