Turning speakers on their sides or upside down? Need solution for my desktop setup

[JamMaster]

I admit, it is a bit of a conundrum, especially for standard 2-way speakers. I did read the good link you provided before I posted, and it helped my in my analysis. My assumption is that any good concentric speaker like the Hsu Research and Elacs should alleviate this problem of putting the speaker on its side. This is my own assumption, however, and I am curious if it is indeed true based on the experience of the community members here. If the assumption is true, then it does expand my speaker choices as there are a few good concentric options out there. If my assumption is false, then I need to go back to the drawing board.

 

[Trell]

That would be @Trell with the Genelec desk systems....

I was under the impression that OP preferred passive speakers, but powered ones make a lot of sense on a desktop.

I'm very pleased with the Genelec 8330A that I bought, along with a Genelec 7360A subwoofer and the GLM Kit for calibration. The GLM Kit is very useful for the calibration that is stored in the monitors/subwoofers so no external box or software needed after calibration, and of course, most importantly to tame the nasty bass peaks (mountains?) in small rooms.

My Genelec are 2-ways and I've them in a vertical position. The Genelec "Ones" that are coaxial can be used vertically as well as horizontally, but they are much more expensive.

For the OP, here is a thread of my Genelec: https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/trells-tiny-home-office.122304/

 

[Trell]

I admit, it is a bit of a conundrum, especially for standard 2-way speakers. I did read the good link you provided before I posted, and it helped my in my analysis. My assumption is that any good concentric speaker like the Hsu Research and Elacs should alleviate this problem of putting the speaker on its side. This is my own assumption, however, and I am curious if it is indeed true based on the experience of the community members here. If the assumption is true, then it does expand my speaker choices as there are a few good concentric options out there. If my assumption is false, then I need to go back to the drawing board.

It's my understanding as well that coaxial ones generally can be placed horizontally, especially those that are "true" coaxial (no separate woofer in the design).

Of course, measurements are very helpful here, and in this case the horizontal and vertical directivity is more than helpful.

Below is for the Genelec 8331A (one the "Ones"), while the second is for my Genelec 8330A that is a traditional 2-way. Should I place my 8330A horizontally I can't move that much sideways without affecting the sound quite a bit, and on a desktop where I sit close that would be inconvenient. The 8331A are pretty much the same whichever way I place them. They are also very expensive, which is way I bought a pair of 8330A, a 7360A subwoofer, the GLM Kit, cables and with some money left over compared to a pair of 8331A. For me this gives much better sound.

These images are from the manuals, but Genelec has been shown to be very honest in their measurements. On audiosciencereview that are many more such measurements for speakers.

 

[Eppie]

Few people will be in your situation which is why I posted the link to the review for the Hsu. You'll likely have to do some searching to find others that own them. That review for the CCB-8 was done by @shadyJ but it was almost 4 years ago. He's one of the most knowledgeable speaker reviewers though and may be able to offer some advice on your particular situation.

It's hard to judge what other people mean by "high-quality sound" since it's a subjective term. We haven't even touched upon what your sources are. The line out from the PC will not be that great as the DACs in most PCs are cheap. For PC audio you'll want an external DAC and amp or a powered speaker with digital input for hi-fi. Some people are fine with less. I have a decent audio setup but on my PC I'm still using an old pair of Cambridge Soundworks PC Works 2.1 speakers. The satellites are 3" cubes so they easily fire under a computer monitor from behind or in front, and the subwoofer only goes down to 65Hz so it doesn't disturb anyone in the house. Only 17 watts of power but for casual listening or for music in the next room it does fine. It's not hi-fi though.

 

[lovinthehd]

Something from the KEF LS series perhaps?

 

[Mark E. Long]

Consider something that's naturally side-oriented, like this? I used to own a pair of these as my primary speakers, both in a traditional hifi arrangement and double-duty as nearfield monitors, and loved the hell out of them. This is a solid bargain at the price point, BTW. JBL discontinued them in the mid '00s.

JBL Studio Series S38 High-End 3-Way Bookshelf Speakers Black EXCELLENT LOOK | eBay

Pair JBL Studio Series S38 high-end 3-way compact/bookshelf speakers in black. Speakers are in excellent physical condition and sound perfect. If you have.

www.ebay.com

Those are solid speakers I still use a set of these for my front presence speakers. In my main rig in the house . I’ve got a garage setup with 4 of these and s-26’s for heights out there . They are a great clean sounding speaker .

 

[JamMaster]

It's my understanding as well that coaxial ones generally can be placed horizontally, especially those that are "true" coaxial (no separate woofer in the design).

Of course, measurements are very helpful here, and in this case the horizontal and vertical directivity is more than helpful.

Below is for the Genelec 8331A (one the "Ones"), while the second is for my Genelec 8330A that is a traditional 2-way. Should I place my 8330A horizontally I can't move that much sideways without affecting the sound quite a bit, and on a desktop where I sit close that would be inconvenient. The 8331A are pretty much the same whichever way I place them. They are also very expensive, which is way I bought a pair of 8330A, a 7360A subwoofer, the GLM Kit, cables and with some money left over compared to a pair of 8331A. For me this gives much better sound.

These images are from the manuals, but Genelec has been shown to be very honest in their measurements. On audiosciencereview that are many more such measurements for speakers.

View attachment 48609

View attachment 48610

This is very illustrative, especially comparing the graphs of the two speakers. Not being able to adjust your position at all is definitely a limitation, a deal breaker. For your setup pics you definitely have a good arrangement to get proper imaging. I wish I had the additional space, but I don't. The Ones series are not cheap, a bit more than I was budgeting. Even the entry level model is $2300. I am sure they perform well as a proper monitor, but not going to work for me unfortunately.

 

[JamMaster]

Few people will be in your situation which is why I posted the link to the review for the Hsu. You'll likely have to do some searching to find others that own them. That review for the CCB-8 was done by @shadyJ but it was almost 4 years ago. He's one of the most knowledgeable speaker reviewers though and may be able to offer some advice on your particular situation.

It's hard to judge what other people mean by "high-quality sound" since it's a subjective term. We haven't even touched upon what your sources are. The line out from the PC will not be that great as the DACs in most PCs are cheap. For PC audio you'll want an external DAC and amp or a powered speaker with digital input for hi-fi. Some people are fine with less. I have a decent audio setup but on my PC I'm still using an old pair of Cambridge Soundworks PC Works 2.1 speakers. The satellites are 3" cubes so they easily fire under a computer monitor from behind or in front, and the subwoofer only goes down to 65Hz so it doesn't disturb anyone in the house. Only 17 watts of power but for casual listening or for music in the next room it does fine. It's not hi-fi though.

That would be very cool if shady were able to share his experience and suggestions. Before spending any money I really want to get the best information possible.

High-qualify is definitely subjective. I will be using my Audioengine D1 DAC from the PC via USB, then use standard RCAs from the DAC to the amplifier. If I went for powered speakers I would likely run an optical cable from the PC to the speakers directly. I have that exact same Soundworks 2.1 system and it too is still running nearly 15 years later on my mothers PC! It is ok sound given its size especially. I was looking at the Harbeth P3ESR used (~1.6k) at the high end of my budget, and down to say the Elac UniFi 51/52 (~300-500) used. Something like the Kantos, Audioengines, etc. I am not considering. I hope that helps provide some context.

 

[MalVeauX]

Hi,

What about boom arms on the wall? Speakers can be in any position you want at any time, just move them by moving the boom arm and reposition as needed. Above monitor, vertical, on-axis, aiming tweeters at your ears.

Very best,

 

[Eppie]

Hi,

What about boom arms on the wall? Speakers can be in any position you want at any time, just move them by moving the boom arm and reposition as needed. Above monitor, vertical, on-axis, aiming tweeters at your ears.

Very best,

He mentioned that he has an adjustable desk for both sitting and standing, so I think the goal is to have something desk mounted so that it moves with the entire layout.

 

[MalVeauX]

He mentioned that he has an adjustable desk for both sitting and standing, so I think the goal is to have something desk mounted so that it moves with the entire layout.

Boom arms on the desk would do that too. Can be angled however to make it work. Just like booms for heavy monitors. Of course depends on size of the speakers.

Very best,

 

[JamMaster]

Hi,

What about boom arms on the wall? Speakers can be in any position you want at any time, just move them by moving the boom arm and reposition as needed. Above monitor, vertical, on-axis, aiming tweeters at your ears.

Very best,

Unfortunately it will not be possible to attach to the wall. The size of boom arms needed to work with heavy speakers this way would be stable enough just clamped on the desk? I did a search and couldn't find anything suitable for a desk mount.

 

[MalVeauX]

Ok,

So basically there's no good way to setup speakers as its all a complete compromise secondary to your desk and monitor setup that clearly is taking priority. So the best way to move forward, if you want excellent audio, is basically good headphones.

Very best,

 

[ski2xblack]

I think the desire for extension from your speakers is driving you in a direction that is more difficult to achieve in your setup. That requirement means larger speakers by necessity, and much more robust and costly mounting solutions. I'm sure Soundanchors has studio stands or installation solutions, probably outrageously expensive, that you could use to mount bigger mains, somehow, some way.

I know you don't want a sub, but smaller mains would be far more manageable in terms of mounting options, as well as behaving more point-source-ish at near field distance than larger speakers, opening up possibilites other than the limited number of coax products to choose from. The sub could be very modest, considering the sensitive neighbor factor.

 

[JamMaster]

The monitors are taking priority over the speakers in this setup and I do have some restrictions on mounting and not incorporating a sub. That is why the thrust of my post was centered around what type of speaker could perform well given the preferred speaker location - just above the monitors either sideways (preferred) or upside down (2nd choice).

I am hoping to get more definitive feedback whether partial concentric speakers like the Elac Ubi, or full concentric like the KEF LS series, are in fact able to mitigate the challenges presented by my preferred speaker placement.

 

[ski2xblack]

I wouldn't devote a big budget to an inherently compromised setup. I think I would personally prefer a pair of Affordable Accuracy monotors over any of those. The AA monitors have very satisfying bass that digs deep, they're very resolving, throw a big image, and even though they're not coaxial, they work great as near field monitors.

The New Affordable Accuracy Plus Monitor

 

[MrBoat]

I am sitting 2 feet away from the speakers themselves, that's what makes the 6-7 feet of width too much. My listening position can't come anywhere close to 6-7 feet of distance from each speaker as it's a computer desktop.

I am sitting about 3 feet back and have my speakers 8 feet apart and toed to where they cross right in front of my face and the image/sound stage is inescapable, with a lot of wiggle room off axis either way. I think this is one of those places where waveguides on the tweeter, regardless how subtle, seems to make a difference somehow. This started out to be a temporary setup when I had house guests with children for the unforeseeable future. This arrangement put all the ruckus well behind me, and out of mind when the volume was turned up. I ended up enjoying it so much, I left it this way. Can't do two monitors side-by-side and one above? I also use this pc for gaming and movies and the audio is immersive enough that I don't need surround.

If I had to have variable height with regard to the desk, I would fasten wings on a pivot to the underside of the desk sides to act as shelves for the speakers, that could even be closed when not in use.

 

[MrBoat]

Consider something that's naturally side-oriented, like this? I used to own a pair of these as my primary speakers, both in a traditional hifi arrangement and double-duty as nearfield monitors, and loved the hell out of them. This is a solid bargain at the price point, BTW. JBL discontinued them in the mid '00s.

JBL Studio Series S38 High-End 3-Way Bookshelf Speakers Black EXCELLENT LOOK | eBay

Pair JBL Studio Series S38 high-end 3-way compact/bookshelf speakers in black. Speakers are in excellent physical condition and sound perfect. If you have.

www.ebay.com

I own a pair of S38 from a forum member here and I like them enough to where they are used as much as my main speakers are. Also have a pair of the S312 from the same era that I can't get myself to part with.

 

[shadyJ]

This is my first post here at Audioholics, so please be gentle...

I know I am not the only one with this challenge, and I suspect fleshing this out here will help others in the future. I spend a ton of time at my desk and want high-quality sound. My desktop setup, however, is not conducive to good speaker placement. I know turning almost any speaker on its side or upside-down is a big no-no for a variety of reasons, but I can't see any other way to setup my desk. Please allow me to briefly describe my situation and hopefully those with experience and/or knowledge can help provide some guidance.

I have a triple 27" monitor setup which are all touching with no gaps. I am seated 2 feet from the monitors. The top edge of the monitors is at eye/ear height. I use an electronic sit-stand desk, so the desk height is variable. The speaker placement options I see are as follows:

1. Below the monitors - NO. There is not enough room below the monitors (6 inches) for speakers.
2. Outside the monitors - NO. The gap between speakers is much too large (6+ feet) and I would have zero sound stage.
3. Behind the monitors, on floor stands, normal vertical speaker orientation - NO. Because the desk height is variable, the speakers would be completely blocked by the computer monitors in one of the desk positions.
4. Above the monitors, on desk-mounted stands pointing downward, normal vertical speaker orientation - NOT GOOD. It would be hard to get the angle just right, the speakers would be dangling higher than I like, and I doubt how good the sound stage would be in that scenario.
5. Just above the monitors, on desk-mounted stands, flipped vertical speaker orientation (woofer on top) - MAYBE? With traditional 2-way speakers this won't because the mids would be too far off axis. But what about 3-way speakers with a concentric mid/tweeter design like the Elac Ubi 51/52? Although still not ideal, would I be able to get decent stereo imaging and sound stage in such configuration?
6. Just above the monitors, on desk-mounted stands, turned on their sides - MAYBE? Same as above, would concentric designs work here, and would it be better than the flipped vertical orientation? Should the mid/tweeter be inside or outside?

I hope people can comment on the accuracy of my assumptions above, especially options 5 & 6 (flipped vertical & side orientations). I am open to any and all suggestions for placement, speaker types, and specific speaker models. I am hoping someone will be able to confirm what works and what doesn't.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and I look forward to your feedback. If this specific case has already been covered, my apologies in advance and please provide the relevant link. Cheers.

Audioholics just posted an article that addresses some of these concerns. Read Audioholics Guide in Getting Good Sound From a Desktop Audio System.

 

[JamMaster]

The new Guide + the comments from that new thread have thoroughly answered all of my questions. Thank you to everyone who commented, and especially to James for creating the brand new guide. I am confident it will help many other people in the future who are wrestling with their own desktop setups.