Turning speakers on their sides or upside down? Need solution for my desktop setup

[JamMaster]

This is my first post here at Audioholics, so please be gentle...

I know I am not the only one with this challenge, and I suspect fleshing this out here will help others in the future. I spend a ton of time at my desk and want high-quality sound. My desktop setup, however, is not conducive to good speaker placement. I know turning almost any speaker on its side or upside-down is a big no-no for a variety of reasons, but I can't see any other way to setup my desk. Please allow me to briefly describe my situation and hopefully those with experience and/or knowledge can help provide some guidance.

I have a triple 27" monitor setup which are all touching with no gaps. I am seated 2 feet from the monitors. The top edge of the monitors is at eye/ear height. I use an electronic sit-stand desk, so the desk height is variable. The speaker placement options I see are as follows:

1. Below the monitors - NO. There is not enough room below the monitors (6 inches) for speakers.
2. Outside the monitors - NO. The gap between speakers is much too large (6+ feet) and I would have zero sound stage.
3. Behind the monitors, on floor stands, normal vertical speaker orientation - NO. Because the desk height is variable, the speakers would be completely blocked by the computer monitors in one of the desk positions.
4. Above the monitors, on desk-mounted stands pointing downward, normal vertical speaker orientation - NOT GOOD. It would be hard to get the angle just right, the speakers would be dangling higher than I like, and I doubt how good the sound stage would be in that scenario.
5. Just above the monitors, on desk-mounted stands, flipped vertical speaker orientation (woofer on top) - MAYBE? With traditional 2-way speakers this won't because the mids would be too far off axis. But what about 3-way speakers with a concentric mid/tweeter design like the Elac Ubi 51/52? Although still not ideal, would I be able to get decent stereo imaging and sound stage in such configuration?
6. Just above the monitors, on desk-mounted stands, turned on their sides - MAYBE? Same as above, would concentric designs work here, and would it be better than the flipped vertical orientation? Should the mid/tweeter be inside or outside?

I hope people can comment on the accuracy of my assumptions above, especially options 5 & 6 (flipped vertical & side orientations). I am open to any and all suggestions for placement, speaker types, and specific speaker models. I am hoping someone will be able to confirm what works and what doesn't.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and I look forward to your feedback. If this specific case has already been covered, my apologies in advance and please provide the relevant link. Cheers.

 

[NINaudio]

Something like this would work for you in situations 4, 5, and 6:

https://www.hsuresearch.com/products/ccb-8.html

 

[Trell]

Adding a subwoofer will give you more options with regards to the size of the speakers.

You don't say if you want active monitors or not, but among active monitors for studio use you'll find more options for horizontal placement than in the consumer space.

 

[lovinthehd]

Upside down or sideways isn't necessarily bad. My center in my bedroom is an upside down bookshelf style speaker to put the tweeter more in line with L/R speakers. In one system the bookshelf style speakers are sideways as thats just how it's gotta be but for rear surrounds it's just fine. I've got no desk situation but do what you need to and if it sounds wrong don't do it

 

[JamMaster]

I forgot to add the listening preferences. I will not be able to add a subwoofer as this room is directly above a sensitive sleeper. That being said, I don't need deep bass, anything that gets to ~50HZ and below would be sufficient. Additionally, I will not be playing at high volumes so high sensitivity and/or large sounding speakers are not required.

I am fine with either active or passive speakers if I don't have a choice, whatever will allow me to retain the best imaging and sound stage given my restrictions. I may prefer passive as I am not a huge fan of class D in general, which most actives use.

With regard to actual studio monitors, I am not so hot on those as my feeling is they would be a bit too stale/clinical for my liking. I admittedly don't like an ultra neutral sound, I do prefer something that has a bit warmer mids with a slight roll-off in the highs. I get treble fatigue somewhat easily.

 

[Jerkface]

Consider something that's naturally side-oriented, like this? I used to own a pair of these as my primary speakers, both in a traditional hifi arrangement and double-duty as nearfield monitors, and loved the hell out of them. This is a solid bargain at the price point, BTW. JBL discontinued them in the mid '00s.

JBL Studio Series S38 High-End 3-Way Bookshelf Speakers Black EXCELLENT LOOK | eBay

Pair JBL Studio Series S38 high-end 3-way compact/bookshelf speakers in black. Speakers are in excellent physical condition and sound perfect. If you have.

www.ebay.com

 

[JamMaster]

Those JBLs are an interesting option as it's already designed horizontally. I wonder how good the sound is on those. I am willing to spend up to 2k on a pair of speakers for this use if needed, so I am hoping to find something that is of pretty decent sound quality. I would gladly spend less to get what I want, but just to give an idea of the budget I have allocated (if needed).

 

[Jerkface]

Those JBLs are an interesting option as it's already designed horizontally. I wonder how good the sound is on those. I am willing to spend up to 2k on a pair of speakers for this use if needed, so I am hoping to find something that is of pretty decent sound quality. I would gladly spend less to get what I want, but just to give an idea of the budget I have allocated (if needed).

As I said, I owned a pair for a decade. I'd still own them, if water damage hadn't gotten them during a flood. Great, great sounding speakers.

 

[TLS Guy]

This is my first post here at Audioholics, so please be gentle...

I know I am not the only one with this challenge, and I suspect fleshing this out here will help others in the future. I spend a ton of time at my desk and want high-quality sound. My desktop setup, however, is not conducive to good speaker placement. I know turning almost any speaker on its side or upside-down is a big no-no for a variety of reasons, but I can't see any other way to setup my desk. Please allow me to briefly describe my situation and hopefully those with experience and/or knowledge can help provide some guidance.

I have a triple 27" monitor setup which are all touching with no gaps. I am seated 2 feet from the monitors. The top edge of the monitors is at eye/ear height. I use an electronic sit-stand desk, so the desk height is variable. The speaker placement options I see are as follows:

1. Below the monitors - NO. There is not enough room below the monitors (6 inches) for speakers.
2. Outside the monitors - NO. The gap between speakers is much too large (6+ feet) and I would have zero sound stage.
3. Behind the monitors, on floor stands, normal vertical speaker orientation - NO. Because the desk height is variable, the speakers would be completely blocked by the computer monitors in one of the desk positions.
4. Above the monitors, on desk-mounted stands pointing downward, normal vertical speaker orientation - NOT GOOD. It would be hard to get the angle just right, the speakers would be dangling higher than I like, and I doubt how good the sound stage would be in that scenario.
5. Just above the monitors, on desk-mounted stands, flipped vertical speaker orientation (woofer on top) - MAYBE? With traditional 2-way speakers this won't because the mids would be too far off axis. But what about 3-way speakers with a concentric mid/tweeter design like the Elac Ubi 51/52? Although still not ideal, would I be able to get decent stereo imaging and sound stage in such configuration?
6. Just above the monitors, on desk-mounted stands, turned on their sides - MAYBE? Same as above, would concentric designs work here, and would it be better than the flipped vertical orientation? Should the mid/tweeter be inside or outside?

I hope people can comment on the accuracy of my assumptions above, especially options 5 & 6 (flipped vertical & side orientations). I am open to any and all suggestions for placement, speaker types, and specific speaker models. I am hoping someone will be able to confirm what works and what doesn't.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and I look forward to your feedback. If this specific case has already been covered, my apologies in advance and please provide the relevant link. Cheers.

6 feet is not too far apart, in fact 8 feet would be optimal.

Most systems have their speakers far too close together. That is by far the commonest fault I see with members set ups.

 

[JamMaster]

6 feet is not too far apart, in fact 8 feet would be optimal.

Most systems have their speakers far too close together. That is by far the commonest fault I see with members set ups.

I am sitting 2 feet away from the speakers themselves, that's what makes the 6-7 feet of width too much. My listening position can't come anywhere close to 6-7 feet of distance from each speaker as it's a computer desktop.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

Something like this would work for you in situations 4, 5, and 6:

https://www.hsuresearch.com/products/ccb-8.html

You read my mind… 3 hours early.

 

[TLS Guy]

I am sitting 2 feet away from the speakers themselves, that's what makes the 6-7 feet of width too much. My listening position can't come anywhere close to 6-7 feet of distance from each speaker as it's a computer desktop.

Nonsense. If a speaker is any good it will maintain perspective right up to the plane between the speakers. At least the ones I design do.

 

[JamMaster]

Nonsense. If a speaker is any good it will maintain perspective right up to the plane between the speakers. At least the ones I design do.

Interesting. The general wisdom, at least what I have always known, is the listener and speakers should be approximately equidistant. Of course each speaker and room are all different so its not a hard fast rule per se. In my own systems speaker placement has been important to the imaging. I admit I have never tried a 4:1 ratio. I am not a speaker designer, but this is my understanding and listening experience. I would be very interested to hear what others have to say on this point as it would definitely be a new idea to me to use 3:1 or 4:1 distances for a primary 2-channel setup.

 

[TLS Guy]

Interesting. The general wisdom, at least what I have always known, is the listener and speakers should be approximately equidistant. Of course each speaker and room are all different so its not a hard fast rule per se. In my own systems speaker placement has been important to the imaging. I admit I have never tried a 4:1 ratio. I am not a speaker designer, but this is my understanding and listening experience. I would be very interested to hear what others have to say on this point as it would definitely be a new idea to me to use 3:1 or 4:1 distances for a primary 2-channel setup.

When speakers are too close they interfere with each other. The closer you place them, the greater the frequency bands that will add and subtract increasing the number of peaks and nulls. Optimal speaker placement is between 8 and 14 feet.

This becomes a big problem in HT as the space between center and mains, becomes all too often too close for comfort. That is why many systems are better off with no center. In Europe, and for instance the UK, living spaces are generally much smaller then the US. That is why the BBC do not favor a center channel, and the reason why their multichannel broadcasts do not contain a center channel. The late Siegfried Linkwitz, did a lot of research on just that issue. His recommendations are just what I recommended.

 

[Jerkface]

When speakers are too close they interfere with each other. The closer you place them, the greater the frequency bands that will add and subtract increasing the number of peaks and nulls. Optimal speaker placement is between 8 and 14 feet.

This becomes a big problem in HT as the space between center and mains, becomes all too often too close for comfort. That is why many systems are better off with no center. In Europe, and for instance the UK, living spaces are generally much smaller then the US. That is why the BBC do not favor a center channel, and the reason why their multichannel broadcasts do not contain a center channel. The late Siegfried Linkwitz, did a lot of research on just that issue. His recommendations are just what I recommended.

You know, I never really thought about it, but back when I was rolling those S38's as nearfield monitors, they were still roughly 6' apart even though I was sitting right on top of them, maybe 2-3 feet away. And stereo imaging was never an issue, even at that distance.

 

[CajunLB]

This is my first post here at Audioholics, so please be gentle...

I know I am not the only one with this challenge, and I suspect fleshing this out here will help others in the future. I spend a ton of time at my desk and want high-quality sound. My desktop setup, however, is not conducive to good speaker placement. I know turning almost any speaker on its side or upside-down is a big no-no for a variety of reasons, but I can't see any other way to setup my desk. Please allow me to briefly describe my situation and hopefully those with experience and/or knowledge can help provide some guidance.

I have a triple 27" monitor setup which are all touching with no gaps. I am seated 2 feet from the monitors. The top edge of the monitors is at eye/ear height. I use an electronic sit-stand desk, so the desk height is variable. The speaker placement options I see are as follows:

1. Below the monitors - NO. There is not enough room below the monitors (6 inches) for speakers.
2. Outside the monitors - NO. The gap between speakers is much too large (6+ feet) and I would have zero sound stage.
3. Behind the monitors, on floor stands, normal vertical speaker orientation - NO. Because the desk height is variable, the speakers would be completely blocked by the computer monitors in one of the desk positions.
4. Above the monitors, on desk-mounted stands pointing downward, normal vertical speaker orientation - NOT GOOD. It would be hard to get the angle just right, the speakers would be dangling higher than I like, and I doubt how good the sound stage would be in that scenario.
5. Just above the monitors, on desk-mounted stands, flipped vertical speaker orientation (woofer on top) - MAYBE? With traditional 2-way speakers this won't because the mids would be too far off axis. But what about 3-way speakers with a concentric mid/tweeter design like the Elac Ubi 51/52? Although still not ideal, would I be able to get decent stereo imaging and sound stage in such configuration?
6. Just above the monitors, on desk-mounted stands, turned on their sides - MAYBE? Same as above, would concentric designs work here, and would it be better than the flipped vertical orientation? Should the mid/tweeter be inside or outside?

I hope people can comment on the accuracy of my assumptions above, especially options 5 & 6 (flipped vertical & side orientations). I am open to any and all suggestions for placement, speaker types, and specific speaker models. I am hoping someone will be able to confirm what works and what doesn't.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and I look forward to your feedback. If this specific case has already been covered, my apologies in advance and please provide the relevant link. Cheers.

Not sure if they are warm sounding but I think KEF would have a speaker that would work well for you.

 

[Eppie]

I like the Hsu speakers that NINaudio linked to. They go down to 50Hz as you mentioned and have a very high sensitivity so they won't need gobs of power and sound the same in either position. Nice detailed review on Audioholics here.

I'm with TLS Guy on speaker spread. If your triple monitor setup is 7 ft wide, you're only looking at placing the speakers maybe 1 ft further out each side to get past the monitors. That should widen the sound stage a little but still give good imaging. Near field monitors are generally pointed right at the listener anyway.

 

[JamMaster]

I like the Hsu speakers that NINaudio linked to. They go down to 50Hz as you mentioned and have a very high sensitivity so they won't need gobs of power and sound the same in either position. Nice detailed review on Audioholics here.

I'm with TLS Guy on speaker spread. If your triple monitor setup is 7 ft wide, you're only looking at placing the speakers maybe 1 ft further out each side to get past the monitors. That should widen the sound stage a little but still give good imaging. Near field monitors are generally pointed right at the listener anyway.

I didn't mention it in my original assessments, putting the speakers on either sides of the monitor is not preferred due to space and mounting limitations. Even if the imaging issue is not as bad as I imagine, I don't really have the space to do it.

So I am still primarily looking at option 5&6 (above the monitor either upside down or on the side). I just don't know if all concentric speakers like the Elacs and KEFs will actually mitigate the issues associated with the speaker position in question.

 

[Eppie]

I didn't mention it in my original assessments, putting the speakers on either sides of the monitor is not preferred due to space and mounting limitations. Even if the imaging issue is not as bad as I imagine, I don't really have the space to do it.

So I am still primarily looking at option 5&6 (above the monitor either upside down or on the side). I just don't know if all concentric speakers like the Elacs and KEFs will actually mitigate the issues associated with the speaker position in question.

Sounds like a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. That really limits you to above the monitors so all you can do is try and make the best of the situation you're in. Having a 2-way upside down will get the tweeter closer to ear level. Here's an article that explains why uprights should not be turned sideways, but it also states that speakers can be turned upside without penalty, so don't worry about sound quality with the tweeters on the bottom. Concentric speakers turned sideways let you get the driver closer to ear level as well, which is the main concern here as the speakers will be higher up than preferred. Another great 2-way not mentioned yet is Genelec. They also make powered speakers with room correcting software so you can tune them to your liking. Another member here has two sets of Genelec and if you're interested in that brand I'm sure he'd be willing to jump in and offer advice.

 

[lovinthehd]

That would be @Trell with the Genelec desk systems....