H

hking

Enthusiast
Can tube amps be used for a 5.1 system, or are they only used for stereo. How would a tube amp be connected to a receiver, or can it.
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
You COULD use tube amps for a 5.1 system. All you would have to do is connect the preamp outputs of your reciever to the inputs of the tube amps you want to use. I don't know of any 5 channel tube amp, but it's easy to find monoblock and 2ch amps. The possible configurations I could see happening would be 5 monoblocks, 2 2ch amps and 1 monoblock, or 1 2ch amp and 3 monoblocks. I would think the last option would be your best bet, if you could afford it. Put the front 3 speakers on their own monoblocks and power the rear two with a stereo amp. Hello headroom!
 
WndrBr3d

WndrBr3d

Full Audioholic
I know that Conrad-Johnson makes some amazing stereo tube amps. My uncle has three MV-125's (125wpc) on his system pushing Martin-Logan speakers all around.

Needless to say, it sounds amazing.
 
toquemon

toquemon

Full Audioholic
Tube amps are sometimes associated with very expensive, esoteric and paranormal audio components. Modern and serious tube manufacturers are making decent priced gear, like Onix. They have a little 30 watt amp per channel amp that sounds amazing. Check out those amps.
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
Yeah, but Onix doesn't make standalone amps, they have integrated amps. It'd be sweet if they made monoblocks though...hmmm...
 
toquemon

toquemon

Full Audioholic
jaxvon said:
Yeah, but Onix doesn't make standalone amps, they have integrated amps. It'd be sweet if they made monoblocks though...hmmm...
You have a point there.
 
H

hking

Enthusiast
denon 3805 has 5 pre-outs

The denon3805 has 5 pre-out's (front, subwoofer, surround, surr. back/multi zone, zone2) http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/photo.asp?s=home&p=AVR-3805&f=AVR3805 Back.jpg&c=2

These don't match the 5.1 setup that I would be connecting to the tube amps. How would I connect these?

If I do add tube pre-amps, I'll probably be adding them one at a time. Can I add them one at a time, or do I have to connect them all at once.

Really new to this, thanks for the advice.
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
I'm not sure what you mean by "These don't match the 5.1 setup that I would be connecting to the tube amps". Could you elaborate please?

Other than that, if you decide to go with the tube amp thing, I would get at least two matching monoblocks to start or a stereo amp. Use the pair of monoblocks or stereo amp to run your mains.
 
H

hking

Enthusiast
shouldn't there be 2 pre outs for the 2 fronts, 1 pre out for the center and 2 pre outs for the 2 surrounds and 1 pre out for the sub. Thank you
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
Well, I just looked at the picture of the back panel of the 3805 and it has all the necessary pre-outs. There are two for the front (one L, one R), one for the center, one for the sub, 2 Surrounds (one L, one R) and 2 surround back (one L, one R).

Here's the pic...the preouts are in the "Pre Out" section (obviously) right next to the power connector:

 
H

hking

Enthusiast
Sorry, showing my inexperience here. Was thinking of + and - for each of the labels. Also would I be using tube amps or tube pre-amps. What's the difference. How much difference in sound would it make. Or would the 3805 by itself be sufficient. I'm using b&w fpm for the speakers. Thanks again.
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
Well, if you were to hook up external amps to your Denon, then the reciever would be functioning as a preamp, thus negating the need for tube preamps. In terms of power, the Denon should be very much sufficient by itself. Why are you interested in using tube amps though? Are you unsatisfied with your sound? If you are, you can make a much bigger difference in it by getting some different speakers. That said, tube amps generally have a "warm" sonic signature, meaning that there is usually a slightly rolled of high end, a slightly bumped up midrange, and the addition of some even order harmonics that make the sound pleasing to the ear.
 
I

indcrimdefense

Audioholic
I have a 2805, as opposed to a 3805, so your receiver has I believe 20 watts more per channel. I'm demoing a Cary Cinema 5 amp (200 x 5) and it's made a very noticeable difference. more bass, broader soundstage, the sound has a fuller quality. I love the clean and clear sound of the 2805, but thought it lacked the full body quality of my old nakamichi receiver. waiting to demo a rotel 1095 & a B&K multichannel amp before I make up my mind. My 2805 is for sale, as I'm looking at the rotel flagship processor, and various other preprocessors. I have no experience w/ tube amps, so can't offer any advice there.
 
H

hking

Enthusiast
Steely,

I not to sure what you mean. If I add external amps the receiver becomes the preamp. Then how can I add the preamp. Am I supposed to get power amps then? I wanna add tube amps cause I have wanna listen to records. Since I'm gonna add tube preamps for the phono, I thought it'd be nice to add them to all the speakers.
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
hking said:
Steely,

I not to sure what you mean. If I add external amps the receiver becomes the preamp. Then how can I add the preamp. Am I supposed to get power amps then? I wanna add tube amps cause I have wanna listen to records. Since I'm gonna add tube preamps for the phono, I thought it'd be nice to add them to all the speakers.
.....HKing, I'm thinking of how to reply to you to help you see the big picture....go ahead and crash if you need to, and I will try to hang something here at least before noon tomorrow, ok?.....
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
Yes, I was talking about adding power amps using the preamp outputs from the Denon. However, if you wanna use a Tube preamp for your record player, then it would need to be connected to the Phono in or an auxilliary input. Which preamp were you looking at? I'll try to take a look at it to give you a more specific answer.

I'm not sure though, if you should feed the outputs of your phono pre to the "phono in" on the Denon. While it would make sense, I think the Denon has a phono stage for those inputs which would be applying the necessary EQ for an input from a turntable. So I would think that the signal chain should go:

Turntable -> Phono Pre -> Auxilliary Input (Denon) -> Speakers.

If you wanted to add tube power amps too (not really necessary if you have the tube preamp), then connect the pre outs on the Denon to the input on the tube power amps and then out to your speakers.
 
H

hking

Enthusiast
First of all, thanks for all the great advice guys.

I'm thinking about getting Jolida amps. I've read some good reviews and are within my price range. I emailed Jolida today, and they suggested 2 502B's for the 2 fronts and 2 surrounds. 1 202A for the center. They said I could convert the 202A to a monoblock and it would only take 2 minutes to convert.

I also noted on their website, www.jolida.com, that these amps are a union of of pre-amp and power amp. Could I still use these, since the denon would be acting as a pre-amp.

I guess I'm not really understanding the different functions of a pre-amp and power amp. I read up on it, but guess I can't seem to grasp the ideas. Thought if I hooked up preamps it would take off load from the denon, and the denon would only act as the power amp.

Steely, I'm still trying to understand the concept. Previously you said I don't need preamps cause the denon will act as preamps. So I assumed that if denon is acting as preamp, I should connect power amps. But then your last thread said that I don't need power amp because I can use the tub pre amps. Which comes to can I use the Jolida's if both pre amp and power amp is integrated.

Once again, thanks for all the input. Damn, getting a headache trying to figure this out.
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
Sorry to confuse you man.

You stated that you want to add a tube phono preamp. I would start with this purchase. A phono preamp is different from a normal preamp, in that its only purpose is to take a signal from a turntable and apply the correct EQ and output that signal to a regular preamp.

A normal preamp is a device that you connect your audio sources to. It has the ability to switch between inputs and apply gain to the signal it is processing. Lets say, for instance, that you want to listen to a CD. You first set your preamp so that it is switched to the CD input. Your CD player outputs an analog signal (if you use the RCA stereo plugs) to your preamp. The preamp then takes this signal and, as you turn the volume knob, adds voltage to the signal from the CD player and outputs this to a power amplifier. The power amplifier then adds a LOT more voltage and increases the amplitude of the signal (more amperage) and then sends this highly powered signal to your speakers. You have music.

Now, an integrated amp (such as the Jolida 202A that you mentioned) are a stereo preamp and a power amp in one unit. The small RCA connections on the back of the integrated amp are connected to the preamp circuits which are then connected to the power amp circuits in the same box. Your Denon Reciever (we're ignoring the video stuff right now) is also a preamp and a power amp (a multi-channel power amp and multi-channel preamp) in one unit. The thing that makes it a "receiver" is the fact that it has the ability to de-modulate FM radio signals and act as a radio reciever. Therefore, when you plug your CD player into your Denon, it connects to the preamp in the Denon, which, as you turn the volume up, adds voltage to the signal and sends the slightly amplified signal to the power amp section of the reciever, which then gives the signal a big boost and powers your speakers.

Let's hope I explained that well enough. Now onto the issues...

Because an integrated amp such as the 202A has both a preamp AND a power amp, it can adjust the volume of its output. This is unlike a CD player, which has no volume adjustment, it only outputs a straight up very low voltage signal, the source material determines the the levels the preamp sees. If you were to connect your Denon preamp outs to the inputs of an integrated amp, then you would have two preamps that you would have to control. Because of this, it would be very easy to overload the inputs on the Jolida integrated because of the extra voltage the Denon is outputting from its preamp output. Preamp outputs are designed to go directly to a power amplifier, not to another preamp. Similarly, preamp inputs are designed to recieve a low level signal from a source component like a CD player, not another preamp.

So this is why I said you needed power amps. Power amps have no volume control of their own. The volume they output to your speakers is determined by the voltage that your preamp sends to them. If you would like to have tube amps for all of your speakers, then you should look for stereo or monoblock tube amplifiers, not integrated amplifiers. That way, you can use the preamp outputs of your Denon to feed them a signal.

Since you said you would also like to get a phono preamp (I assume the Jolida JD 9A), I would say go for this first. It will sound much better than your Denon's phono section (not because of the tubes, though they help, but rather because of its dedicated nature). Start with the phono preamp. Connect the outputs of the phono preamp to an auxilliary input on the preamp section of the Denon (NOT the Phono inputs), and see how you like the sound. If you still feel that you want some more tubey sound in your system, then you need to look at stereo or monoblock Power amps, such as the Jolida 3000A amps. You would then connect the preamp outputs of your Denon to the inputs on the amp, then the amp to its respective speaker.

Is this all clear? Sorry to be so long winded, but I wanted to be thorough.
 
Last edited:
H

hking

Enthusiast
Now that cleared things up. I'll probably go the suggested route and get the phono preamp first and add on the power amps later on. But the Jolida 3000A's are out of my price range. Was hoping to get tube amps at 1000-1500.

Any suggestions to any good tube amps in this range?
 
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