Trying to help elderly lady w/ Digital TV Conversion...

[BG3]

Here's the situation, I'll try to be breif.

My father-in-law called today. An elderly neighbor of his has tried to get several tv repairmen to come out and set up her new CRT TV w/ digital tuner. None would go b/c she doesn't have a credit card, even though she offered to pay cash.

So, I went over and set up the tv. When she couldn't hardly get any channels, we started looking for sources of the problem. We first found that the wire terminals on the coax push-on balun weren't tight. We then discovered that the antenna cable (old, flat & thin) was cut and someone had spliced in some lamp plug wire. We took the lamp wire out cut and cleaned some new ends and spliced the original wire back together.

By just doing that, the analog listing went from 11 channels to 17 and digital from 0 to 2.

The antenna is a full size, traditional antenna. She is located equidistant between my house and my in-laws. Both of us pick up all available digital channels w/ no problems.

My questions are:
1: Will switching to RG-6 improve the signal transfer, possibly improving channel reception?
2: If yes, what can I use to go from the two spade connectors connected to the antenna via wing-nuts, to a F-type/Coax connector?

Thank you in advance!

 

[Adam]

I don't know what effect RG6 will have.

To go from the antenna spade connectors to an f-type screw-on connector, you can use a matching transformer like this one here. They are sold many places, I believe.

Have you inspected the direction that her antenna is facing? Perhaps some improvement can be made by redirecting it. The digital broadcast towers may not be in the same location as the old analog towers. Also, it will make some difference if her antenna is a VHF, UHF, or VHF/UHF antenna - but I'm guessing that she has a VHF/UHF, which should work just fine.

 

[highfigh]

Here's the situation, I'll try to be breif.

My father-in-law called today. An elderly neighbor of his has tried to get several tv repairmen to come out and set up her new CRT TV w/ digital tuner. None would go b/c she doesn't have a credit card, even though she offered to pay cash.

So, I went over and set up the tv. When she couldn't hardly get any channels, we started looking for sources of the problem. We first found that the wire terminals on the coax push-on balun weren't tight. We then discovered that the antenna cable (old, flat & thin) was cut and someone had spliced in some lamp plug wire. We took the lamp wire out cut and cleaned some new ends and spliced the original wire back together.

By just doing that, the analog listing went from 11 channels to 17 and digital from 0 to 2.

The antenna is a full size, traditional antenna. She is located equidistant between my house and my in-laws. Both of us pick up all available digital channels w/ no problems.

My questions are:
1: Will switching to RG-6 improve the signal transfer, possibly improving channel reception?
2: If yes, what can I use to go from the two spade connectors connected to the antenna via wing-nuts, to a F-type/Coax connector?

Thank you in advance!

The antenna should have two screws, to which the old flat twin-lead would have been connected. Get an outdoor rated matching transformer like this:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=180-010

Use a compression F connector to terminate the coax and coat the threads with silicone grease before making the connection. Make a 12" loop with the coax and use a nylon wire tie to secure it to the antenna in a position that won't allow water to enter the connector or drip down to the balun.

Coat all connections with silicone grease after cleaning the connecting points on the antenna because they have rusted over the years and install the transformer. You should be able to get these at any hardware or big box store. DO NOT use the crimp-style F connectors, use the compression type.

How far from the TV is the antenna located?

Connect the antenna directly to the TV first. If you don't get much, replace the antenna.

Make sure the TV doesn't have a TV/Cable switch, set to Cable. If it's set that way, UHF won't come in.

 

[BG3]

I don't know what effect RG6 will have.

To go from the antenna spade connectors to an f-type screw-on connector, you can use a matching transformer like this one here. They are sold many places, I believe.

Have you inspected the direction that her antenna is facing? Perhaps some improvement can be made by redirecting it. The digital broadcast towers may not be in the same location as the old analog towers. Also, it will make some difference if her antenna is a VHF, UHF, or VHF/UHF antenna - but I'm guessing that she has a VHF/UHF, which should work just fine.

Thank you. That's the part I was looking at. Just wasn't certain it was the right part. I did move the antenna and was able to pick up two local digital channels, the rest are analog. I was also able to get the others to come in better. I would think it's a VHF/UHF but, not real sure how to be certain.

Good to know about the towers. I assumed the signals would come from the same towers.

 

[BG3]

The antenna should have two screws, to which the old flat twin-lead would have been connected. Get an outdoor rated matching transformer like this:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=180-010

Use a compression F connector to terminate the coax and coat the threads with silicone grease before making the connection. Make a 12" loop with the coax and use a nylon wire tie to secure it to the antenna in a position that won't allow water to enter the connector or drip down to the balun.

Coat all connections with silicone grease after cleaning the connecting points on the antenna because they have rusted over the years and install the transformer. You should be able to get these at any hardware or big box store. DO NOT use the crimp-style F connectors, use the compression type.

How far from the TV is the antenna located?

Connect the antenna directly to the TV first. If you don't get much, replace the antenna.

Make sure the TV doesn't have a TV/Cable switch, set to Cable. If it's set that way, UHF won't come in.

Thank you! You are right about the antenna having two threaded post where the leads are terminated.

I understand the purpose of the drip loop but, not sure I understand the positioning. Is there a diagram anywhere I could reference?

Thank you for the tips. The TV is approx. 50' (cable lenght) from the start of the antenna lead.

The antenna is connected directly to the tv and it's set to antenna.

Thanks again!

 

[Adam]

The TV is approx. 50' (cable lenght) from the start of the antenna lead.

You could consider getting a signal amplifier. I have this one, although I haven't used it yet because my antenna is located above my TV (I haven't moved it outside, yet - such a slacker).

 

[BG3]

"...secure it to the antenna in a position that won't allow water to enter the connector or drip down to the balun."

Should I shrink wrap the coax connection to the transformer?

 

[BG3]

You could consider getting a signal amplifier. I have this one, although I haven't used it yet because my antenna is located above my TV (I haven't moved it outside, yet - such a slacker).

My father-in-law had one on his antenna. We ended up unplugging it as it made no difference in the quality of the reception or the number of channels available.

However, her situation could be different. Thanks for the idea.

 

[highfigh]

Thank you! You are right about the antenna having two threaded post where the leads are terminated.

I understand the purpose of the drip loop but, not sure I understand the positioning. Is there a diagram anywhere I could reference?

Thank you for the tips. The TV is approx. 50' (cable lenght) from the start of the antenna lead.

The antenna is connected directly to the tv and it's set to antenna.

Thanks again!

It's actually called a "service loop" and in addition to keeping stresses on the cable from damaging it, the loop makes it possible to cut the end off and replace it if it goes bad.

Here's a photo of one that would work. I would make the loop a bit larger, though. Maybe 6" diameter.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_erHnnN4_qv4/SAVCcHvqU3I/AAAAAAAAANw/iOTiiUm_-Ro/IMG_5515.JPG

As long as you attach the cable to the house at the top, bottom and the middle, nylon wire ties should work fine as long as they're UV rated. Use a grounding block at the point where the cable enters the house and if you can't ground it to the pipe that goes from the electric meter box to the breaker panel, drive a grounding rod into the ground next to the house and connect to that. If you can make the drop next to the meter and ground it there and then do a horizontal run to where it enters the house, that's fine. It doesn't look as good but it meets code.

 

[highfigh]

My father-in-law had one on his antenna. We ended up unplugging it as it made no difference in the quality of the reception or the number of channels available.

However, her situation could be different. Thanks for the idea.

That could be due to reflections. Unless someone is actually outside of the best reception range, a big antenna isn't needed. Many times, it just needs to be directional. Snow is one thing but if it has a lot of ghosting, it's all from reflections.

 

[highfigh]

Should I shrink wrap the coax connection to the transformer?

I don't think I would. If it gets wet, it'll dry faster if it's open. My satellite "installers" didn't use any sealant on my feed and it works fine. They didn't ground it initially, either, but that's a different issue. I had them come back to do that. I only had them do the job because it was a free installation, and it was worth every penny.

Besides being basic lightning protection, one good thing about using the grounding block is that if the cable at the antenna goes bad, it's an easier repair.

 

[TLS Guy]

How to do it right!

This is how you do it!

 

[BG3]

This is how you do it!

LMAO! I have a feeling that was the scene before we arrived, sans the computer

 

[BG3]

It's actually called a "service loop" and in addition to keeping stresses on the cable from damaging it, the loop makes it possible to cut the end off and replace it if it goes bad.

Here's a photo of one that would work. I would make the loop a bit larger, though. Maybe 6" diameter.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_erHnnN4_qv4/SAVCcHvqU3I/AAAAAAAAANw/iOTiiUm_-Ro/IMG_5515.JPG

Thank you, unfortunately, the link doesn't work.

 

[highfigh]

Thank you, unfortunately, the link doesn't work.

Try this one- it's the photo on the left. Click on 'Full Size Image'.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=pictures+of+a+Cable+service+loop&btnG=Search

And make sure she has a spoon to tap on it with.

 

[10010011]

My questions are:
1: Will switching to RG-6 improve the signal transfer, possibly improving channel reception?

Yes, no,... maybe. Here's the deal. Properly installed 300 Ohm twin lead (the flat stuff) is a direct impedance match, a balanced line, and has lower loss per foot than coax but it needs to be properly installed, (one twist every 10 foot, use standoffs, etc) degrades faster when exposed to the elements, and is not shielded so can have signal ingress issues.

Coax is easier to work with, can be attached directly to siding, if properly grounded can eliminate signal ingress, (shielded) and lasts longer in the weather. But has more loss per foot and needs matching transformer at the antenna and maybe the TV, that adds a bit more insertion loss and one improperly installed F-connector is all it takes to kill everything.

I am willing to bet that twin lead is as old as that lady replacing it with a chain of coat hangers would probably improve the signal.

 

[BG3]

I am willing to bet that twin lead is as old as that lady replacing it with a chain of coat hangers would probably improve the signal.

The twin lead is definitely old. when we were trimming the broken ends to re-splice it for a temp. fix, we trimmed as much as we could but, the copper was corroded/tarnished no matter how much we trimmed off.

We talked to a local retired satellite installer. He's hooking us up with the transformer, 50' RG-6 w/ ends installed for a whopping $15. I hope we'll be able to get it installed this Sat.

I think it's completely pathetic that someone in a service industry isn't willing to help an elderly person if they don't have a credit card. What do they think... Hmmm... This old lady can figure out how to hook up her TV but, I'll bet she has a modern counterfeit money printing machine operating in her back room...

Thank you to everyone that offered advice. Have a Merry Christmas!

 

[10010011]

I think it's completely pathetic that someone in a service industry isn't willing to help an elderly person if they don't have a credit card. What do they think... Hmmm... This old lady can figure out how to hook up her TV but, I'll bet she has a modern counterfeit money printing machine operating in her back room...

Thank you to everyone that offered advice. Have a Merry Christmas!

I know, it's sad. Back in my TV repair days I helped many on old timer get hooked up to cable, antenna, or satellite system. One old guy really sticks in my head. I was called over to hook up their TV. This nice old man leads me in and starts telling me how they just moved into town after a life on the farm. He said "On the farm we had this flat wire that screwed in right here", pointing at the 300 Ohm antenna jack on the TV. He reached down and picked up the coax off the floor and says "Now what the hell am I supposed to do with this?"