Trying to help a old lady.....

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pattyt21

Junior Audioholic
Not sure I'm in the right section as this is my first post after joining. Been researching audio equipment for years and seems AVS is where all the chat is soooo.
Ok, my story, I'll try to make it as short as possible. I want to put together a system for my mother. Last year my aunt that wss veryclose to me passed, and left me her estate, not a lot, but I'm grateful. Also last year 2 months later, my step father passed. My mom, now alone for the first time in probably 50 years. I take great comfort in listening to music, and watching movies on a system I pieced together over the years (marantz sr7007, paradigm premier 800f, 500c, surround 1, defiance v10 sub, and fluance rt81 she bought me 2 years ago for xmas). I want to share this with her, the experience of listening, being overwhelmed by sonic's, to get lost in the music and let go. Her current system, as have been in the past were from step dad from Walmart and such like Panasonic bass boxes. But my dad, when they were together had a full Fisher audio system with 15" fronts, cd player, the whole 9 in 1986 (bonus check from Kodak lol) she still talks about it from time to time watching top gun. I know I want her to have options (no smart phone etc.) And believe a yamaha CD-S300, TS-500, and either a A-S801 or 501 will cover the bases, and remote controls are nice to have. My question is, do I go with paradigm prestige 15Bs? Or two premier 100Bs with a sub? Roughly the same price all around. Would like to keep it small so when she moves it's easy to transport so big box or towers are out. Also not to concerned about ideal imaging ect. As where the speakers are going they wont even be pointing in the same general direction or area. She listens to rock (scorpions, guns and Rose's etc) and some modern (loves coldplay) so looking for loud and CLEAR for her to rock out. Thinking paradigm is better than klipsch which is what my local dealer has, and dont really want to do the big box blue and yellow tag as I like to support the local people. Would she miss not having a sub listening to the sound track of top gun? Would the higher level book shelves be best? Or go down a notch or two (maybe even the monitor se atoms and a v10 sub). Sorry this is so long, but want to give you a better idea. Thanks for any input!

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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
OK this post fills out a bit more of the story. Your Paradigm Premier 800F speakers are very good; they have been measured and shown to be terrific loudspeakers. The problem is that the Premier 100B speakers didn't quite inherit the accuracy of their big brothers. One thing you might consider is substituting some Revel Concerto2 M16 speakers instead. They are fairly accurate and cost a bit less. I think they look a bit nicer as well.

The Paradigm Premier 100B bookshelf speakers might not sound terrible, but man is that treble tipped up. I don't think the prestige series is great either. What other brands do you have access too? I would be looking at Revel, PSB, JBL, Monitor Audio, KEF, among other brands.
 
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pattyt21

Junior Audioholic
OK this post fills out a bit more of the story. Your Paradigm Premier 800F speakers are very good; they have been measured and shown to be terrific loudspeakers. The problem is that the Premier 100B speakers didn't quite inherit the accuracy of their big brothers. One thing you might consider is substituting some Revel Concerto2 M16 speakers instead. They are fairly accurate and cost a bit less. I think they look a bit nicer as well.

The Paradigm Premier 100B bookshelf speakers might not sound terrible, but man is that treble tipped up. I don't think the prestige series is great either. What other brands do you have access too? I would be looking at Revel, PSB, JBL, Monitor Audio, KEF, among other brands.
I was thinking I wasn't getting any responses because no one read the whole thing lol so I went to the speaker page and shortened it up a bit. Yes, I absolutely love my system, (fiance said I'm not allowed to upgrade for at least 10-15 years after that kind of $) and thanks, I have a set of paradigm studio 20v4 that I bought of my future father in law for a $100, hooked em up and realized the infinity box 5.1 system absolutely sucks lol. Went to big blue store with yellow tag, auditioned martin logan (was my fav but realized 4 ohms) B&W 600 and 700, least favorite (voices were as life like as I ever heard in my life, but felt like everything was perfectly flat, no pizzazz for lack of audiophile terms. The elacs were ok, but reminded me of a cheap pair of sonys or pioneers for some reason. I found out there was a paradigm dealer around here, went there, and was really nice, whole system used for $3800 out the door. (They have a trade up program) I guess I could order off of crutchfield, local theres klipsch (non heritage) paradigm at one store, they said hard to sell other names when the paradigms beat em for the $. And whatever the blue box store has. Also a place sells totems I guess in the city. Why do you dislike the paradigms? Wouldn't the premier bookshelves with a sub be close to my towers? Thank you for the assistance.

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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
I was thinking I wasn't getting any responses because no one read the whole thing lol so I went to the speaker page and shortened it up a bit. Yes, I absolutely love my system, (fiance said I'm not allowed to upgrade for at least 10-15 years after that kind of $) and thanks, I have a set of paradigm studio 20v4 that I bought of my future father in law for a $100, hooked em up and realized the infinity box 5.1 system absolutely sucks lol. Went to big blue store with yellow tag, auditioned martin logan (was my fav but realized 4 ohms) B&W 600 and 700, least favorite (voices were as life like as I ever heard in my life, but felt like everything was perfectly flat, no pizzazz for lack of audiophile terms. The elacs were ok, but reminded me of a cheap pair of sonys or pioneers for some reason. I found out there was a paradigm dealer around here, went there, and was really nice, whole system used for $3800 out the door. (They have a trade up program) I guess I could order off of crutchfield, local theres klipsch (non heritage) paradigm at one store, they said hard to sell other names when the paradigms beat em for the $. And whatever the blue box store has. Also a place sells totems I guess in the city. Why do you dislike the paradigms? Wouldn't the premier bookshelves with a sub be close to my towers? Thank you for the assistance.

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I don't dislike Paradigm as brand, in fact I have liked quite a few of their products. However, not everything they make is a slam dunk. The Prestige series had some serious problems. The Premier bookshelf also looks to have some issues. If you like at the measurements in the link in my post pertaining to the 100B speakers, you can see that the high frequencies are very tipped up. That means those speakers will have elevated treble. Speakers with hot treble tend to be fatiguing to listen to after awhile, and once you sense that the treble is being boosted, you can't really get past it. You will always hear it when it makes itself manifest There are better measuring speakers for the money. On the other hand, the 800F Premier tower speakers were outstanding, as was the Premier center speaker. Those are accurate and neutral speakers, and that treble lift is not there. The Persona series is also very good, if rather expensive. The Defiance subwoofers are very good subs.

If you want speakers that sound more like your 800F Premiers, I would be looking Revel, PSB, JBL, Ascend Acoustics, Infinity, Outlaw Audio, KEF. Those brands all aim for a neutral, accurate response. There are also other brands out there that may not be quite as neutral but are still pretty enjoyable.
 
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pattyt21

Junior Audioholic
Huh......
Crutchfield has the kef LS50s on sale,.....$400 off.......

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Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
either a A-S801 or 501 will cover the bases,

Gene's rich. Low ball him hard. :D
 
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PENG

Audioholic Overlord
I know I want her to have options (no smart phone etc.) And believe a yamaha CD-S300, TS-500, and either a A-S801 or 501 will cover the bases, and remote controls are nice to have.
I'll leave the speakers to others. For amp, if you can convince her to give up on CDs the Yamaha WX-A50 would be a better choice than the A-S801 that seems outdated and overpriced.

If she must have CDs, then the R-N803 provides all kinds of options, and has phono input too. In many cases, it is a myth that low to mid range integrated amps would sound better than good receivers such as the R-N803. They don't have the volume so they have to sell them at higher prices, and you end up getting less for more.
 
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pattyt21

Junior Audioholic
I'll leave the speakers to others. For amp, if you can convince her to give up on CDs the Yamaha WX-A50 would be a better choice than the A-S801 that seems outdated and overpriced.

If she must have CDs, then the R-N803 provides all kinds of options, and has phono input too. In many cases, it is a myth that low to mid range integrated amps would sound better than good receivers such as the R-N803. They don't have the volume so they have to sell them at higher prices, and you end up getting less for more.
The shop I like was mentioning the 803, just assumed the 501/801 would be better built and last the long run. The 803 would actually be cheaper as it has a fm tuner in it so wouldn't have to buy that separately. Just worried about reliability. My marantz has every bell and whistle ever, but the HDMI board is finicky.....just figured, like cars, the more crap you jamb in a reciever, the more likely it us to fail.

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PENG

Audioholic Overlord
The shop I like was mentioning the 803, just assumed the 501/801 would be better built and last the long run. The 803 would actually be cheaper as it has a fm tuner in it so wouldn't have to buy that separately. Just worried about reliability. My marantz has every bell and whistle ever, but the HDMI board is finicky.....just figured, like cars, the more crap you jamb in a reciever, the more likely it us to fail.

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Yamaha supposedly has better reliability record than most. Even their multi-channel AV receivers seem to last forever so the two channels should do even better. Aside from the tuner it isn't much different than the entry level integrated amps such as the A-S801. Again, they are cheaper mainly because the lower cost due to volume, that integrated amps just can't compare.
 
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pattyt21

Junior Audioholic
Yamaha supposedly has better reliability record than most. Even their multi-channel AV receivers seem to last forever so the two channels should do even better. Aside from the tuner it isn't much different than the entry level integrated amps such as the A-S801. Again, they are cheaper mainly because the lower cost due to volume, that integrated amps just can't compare.
Going to definitely have to look into the 803 unless I get a good deal on the above mentioned 801, but quick search (on my lunch, so addicted hahaha) the guts are literally identical between the two, just the 803 is cheaper (for what you get) because of volume sales like you said! This is literally the 30th time I might be changing my mind.....

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John Parks

John Parks

Senior Audioholic
Tell you what - if I were to do it over, I would get the R-N803 over the A-S801. It has the exact same amplification (which is REALLY good) as the '801, adds the tuner like you said and does YAPO room correction (not sure if that is important for your "old lady"). One can also adjust crossover setting via the app. Basically, it is a loaded AV receiver minus the extra channels (and HDMI).
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Going to definitely have to look into the 803 unless I get a good deal on the above mentioned 801, but quick search (on my lunch, so addicted hahaha) the guts are literally identical between the two, just the 803 is cheaper (for what you get) because of volume sales like you said! This is literally the 30th time I might be changing my mind.....

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Yeah economies of scale can be like that, why often a multich avr can be a solution as well, altho helps somewhat for video to be in use/available.

Tell us more about your mom's current gear....
 
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pattyt21

Junior Audioholic
Yeah economies of scale can be like that, why often a multich avr can be a solution as well, altho helps somewhat for video to be in use/available.

Tell us more about your mom's current gear....
Here it is! Can't believe I found it and its listed as HiFi! If they only knew hahaha! The woox woofers add such incredible bass! Jk..... the rubber and plastic surround on these extreme bass machines are starting to crack from age. But, she still listens to it on occasion, lately I think shes been using my old Panasonic tv (42"plasma) and music stations on direct tv for music. The more I think about it, the more I remember back to my childhood, and her jamming out to music. I want her to relive that passion, and to fill her emptiness with amazing sound. Anything I buy will be a huge improvement, just want to make sure I'm putting my $ in a good place. IE: the difference between a $2,000 and $4,000 set may have better staging, but no difference in rocking out. Just found last night that crutchfield has kef LS50s for $400 off! I see tons of reviews, will these paired with a sub work? Or are they more for contemporary subtle nuances of private listening sessions than rockin out? Can I run them full power? Or should I get a sub with high pass filter?

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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Here it is! Can't believe I found it and its listed as HiFi! If they only knew hahaha! The woox woofers add such incredible bass! Jk..... the rubber and plastic surround on these extreme bass machines are starting to crack from age. But, she still listens to it on occasion, lately I think shes been using my old Panasonic tv (42"plasma) and music stations on direct tv for music. The more I think about it, the more I remember back to my childhood, and her jamming out to music. I want her to relive that passion, and to fill her emptiness with amazing sound. Anything I buy will be a huge improvement, just want to make sure I'm putting my $ in a good place. IE: the difference between a $2,000 and $4,000 set may have better staging, but no difference in rocking out. Just found last night that crutchfield has kef LS50s for $400 off! I see tons of reviews, will these paired with a sub work? Or are they more for contemporary subtle nuances of private listening sessions than rockin out? Can I run them full power? Or should I get a sub with high pass filter?

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Just checking, so the old Fisher setup was something else? Just seeing if a part of it was still useful....I'd pass on the Philips thing, too.

Now tell us more about how the speakers will be placed in this odd room (an open on one side 8 x 8 space doesn't make a lot of sense to me).
 
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pattyt21

Junior Audioholic
Just checking, so the old Fisher setup was something else? Just seeing if a part of it was still useful....I'd pass on the Philips thing, too.

Now tell us more about how the speakers will be placed in this odd room (an open on one side 8 x 8 space doesn't make a lot of sense to me).
Ohhhhh hahaha. Yeah that was my dads, pre divorce in 1990. He kept it until I upgraded to the first real surround system in 2004, a sony 5.1 reciever, and polk towers up front, center, and bookshelf rears.(sold the Fisher equipment to a coworker in 2006 for $400 for his garage)
Worst part was explaining to dad how surround sound works, that all 4 speakers aren't playing the same sound like when he had 4 speakers and front/rear amps. I'd come home from work to " your rear speakers aren't working!" Hahaha but yeah, kinda gives inspiration to give mom that "wow" factor she had back then. The house shes in is a rental that my step father has rented for over 40 years, it's a 1850s farm house. The upstairs bedroom doors are like plank barn doors, wrought iron hinges and latches just like 200 years ago. The ceilings are 6' high! Anywho, I'll see if I can draw a pic of down stairs.

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pattyt21

Junior Audioholic
Just checking, so the old Fisher setup was something else? Just seeing if a part of it was still useful....I'd pass on the Philips thing, too.

Now tell us more about how the speakers will be placed in this odd room (an open on one side 8 x 8 space doesn't make a lot of sense to me).
Here's the best I could do down loading a free app. Not 100% as I didn't take 12 hrs hahaha. She sits at her computer 4-8hrs a day, playing games. The wierd eye things are the speaker directions sound waves lol.


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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
Just found last night that crutchfield has kef LS50s for $400 off!
At $900/pair, that's a fair price for LS50s. I've heard them and like them. Crutchfield's price puts them at a similar price to the Revel Concerto2 M16 speakers that shadyJ recommended. However, that price for the Revels was from 2016. What do they cost now?

Other small but highly recommended 2-way speakers in that general price range are the Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 (on sale at $678/pair!), and the Salk SongSurround I at $895 (black or white) or $995 in your choice of 5 different veneers. Both these excellent makers sell only by Internet Direct. You can't find them in stores. Salk in particular does excellent work on its wooden veneer finishes, if that interests your mom. Both are highly regarded.

All the above speakers are easy to drive, and will do well combined with a sub woofer. I don't think you could do wrong with any of them.

FWIW, I have a pair of those Salks and when I heard the KEF LS50s, I was able to directly compare them. They aren't identical, but I liked both, and am happy to recommend either of them. I use mine as a 2-channel music only system in a large bedroom.
I see tons of reviews, will these paired with a sub work? Or are they more for contemporary subtle nuances of private listening sessions than rockin out?
Those KEF LS50s will work well, as in rock out, with a sub.
Can I run them full power? Or should I get a sub with high pass filter?
They naturally roll-off below about 80 Hz. I don't think they require a high pass filter.
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Does she even need stereo if she sits sideways to the speakers? How about some nice active monitors on either side of her computer? Something like a JBL LSR308 might do the trick!
 
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pattyt21

Junior Audioholic
Does she even need stereo if she sits sideways to the speakers? How about some nice active monitors on either side of her computer? Something like a JBL LSR308 might do the trick!
I was first thinking powered monitors, but when she moves might hook up to tv? Also like the whole cd/fm idea. Also looking for "rock the house, music you feel" more than near field.

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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
I was first thinking powered monitors, but when she moves might hook up to tv? Also like the whole cd/fm idea. Also looking for "rock the house, music you feel" more than near field.

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They could be used in a variety of ways. Of course they wouldn't provide content and won't work with a receiver/integrated amp without pre-outs....
 

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